Help in Conquests Deity-game needed (Save and picture attached)

[ozo]

I am actually only a Regent/Monarch-player, but got bored with the low challenge in the early years and decided to start a few Deity games. I scrapped the first ones, but decided to continue on this one. I am playing the Iroquois on a Standard size map with Continents, all AI civs random. I have serious trouble expanding, and because of my small area, I have no resources whatsoever and only one luxury. I am also way behind in the tech race since I can't do any research of my own in a speed fast enough, and I don't make enough money to buy all techs.

I would like to have some evaluation of the game so far. What am I doing totally wrong and what could I perhaps do better? I know Deity-level is beatable, but it doesn't feel too easy right now.


EDIT: These attachments are now outdated since I've already started new Deity-games. If you want to help me in my quest to beat Deity-level, please read the latest posts.

 

[kokoras]

Not to let you down but it doen't seem easy at all,in fact a miracle would be a great help.
Anyway,how are you doing with your neighboors,because my sujestion would be to make an allience if possible and attack Portugal.Try it,you have nothing to lose,even if you continue like this you don't have many chances (not for winning but for continue on existing ).

 

[ozo]

Portugal is actually my main trading partner. I have a road to them so I can trade one of my two luxuries to them (they are the same type) and that way get techs. I can't really attack anyway since the best offensive unit I have is the archer (I lack both horses and iron). An archer attack COULD succeed, but I doubt it.

 

[kokoras]

Only archers can't do much,an alliance with Portugal then...Ships to travel?There sould be some land to the north,maybe it is still unocupied,if you find some space there to build,it could be something,and FB sould act on the other continent as your capital.

(Your cities are way too close to each other).

 

[grs]

Build more workers...many more...and work your lands. For example: You are building a settler in a town that has two unirrigated wheats in floodplains. Irrigate them and your city will produce pop much faster. Do not just build roads. As a rule of thumb (!) improve every terrain as you road it (mine or irrigation) you wast worker turns running around. Use the ressources you have. Work the sugar - maybe chop the jungle on the silks.

Build ships not that much settlers. Where are you going to settle? Your lands are filled. Try to find unsettled lands - maybe you are lucky to find a close isle (with a curragh) where you can ship some settlers once you have map making, but dont build them now.

Won't necessarily win you the game, but these are some basics you need on emperor - not to be spoken of deity.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

One thing you need to do ASAP is building some Curraghs and contact all other Civs; you should have done that right from the start (Iros can do that despite not being SEA).
Deity often means you're way back in the mid-ancient, and get to Republic when the leading AI Civs are building Magellans already. It is possible to get back in the tech race by then, when your cities are commercial powerhouses.
However, with your small territory and very dense build, I think you'd really need a miracle....
Some strategic errors I find by just looking at the jpg:
Your capital location sucks. You should have moved your settler 1 SE before founding (or even to the coast). You did not explore your immediate surounding fast enough. Pretty much all your city locations are bad choices; Oil Springs should be 1 SE, Allegheny 1 S etc
You could try to get somewhere with Longbows, but IMHO work on the initial expansion phase, and start a new game - Iroquis are clearly the best Civ for stepping up one or more levels.

 

[ozo]

Will the AI get angry if I settle my cities next to their border and that way push it back? In my earlier games, the AI sometimes started a war right after I pushed their border back with one of my cities.

Thanks a lot for your tips, maybe I'll start a new game and try to get a better start. I just can't seem to grab enough land, the AI almost immidiately settles next to my cities. Any tips on that?

 

[grs]

It will get "a bit angry". But that's not the problem. On deity the AI has very probably a higher culture so your cities will flip to it - not vice versa.

 

[kokoras]

Maybe you sould play vs 5 civs in a standart map,that way you will have some extra space to move.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I dont really like your city spacing. IMO, they are too close to eachother, and i would always place as many cities on a river as reasonably possible.

It would have been best if you made one of the cities with food bonus into a settler factory, but that should have been the first or second city you build after the capital and you should have started a granary in it immediately. It would not be easy to get production for a 4 turn settler, but 6 settler or 2 turn workers should be possible.

infrastructure is a bit low, but that early in the game, you often concentrate more on getting some land so that is understandable.

In order to get more land, first build cities in the direction where the AI is, fill the gaps later.

technology you must get by trading, check the trade screen every single turn. Whenever you buy something for money, be sure to sell it that very same turn as well, to as many AI's as possible. Normally i get all techs trough most of ancient age that way without spendig a penny. Republic is where i either lose the tech race (for the moment) or gotta pay significant amounts of money (often more significant than i can afford)

When fighting without resources, use archers+spearmen+lots of catapults. the catapults must bring every single unit to red before you attack it. the archers are only needed to finish them, the spears to protect the stack. if you have iron, you can use swords for both purposes (attack and defend).
A typical attack force could look like:

4 archers
4 spearmen
16 catapults

that way you can take cities with ease and not lose a unit.
Make sure you build the spearmen and archers in cities with barracks and make sure you make the catapults in cities without barracks.

On deity i have also done simple archer rushes in the past (attack with first 6-8 archers and criple nearest neighbour. On sid this seems imposible to me now.

Other advise for playing:

-have a plan. be flexible but devoted to your plan. with that i mean, as long as your plan stands, keep working for it with devotion, but keep evaluating your plan every turn and adjust it when needed.
This is both large scale game plans, small scale war strategies and local city goals. every city needs a purpose, every war needs a purpose, every attack needs a purpose. Always know WHY you do something, dont just do things.

-Micro all of your cities in early game so you dont waste a single shield, food or commerce. (i generally do this until around 500 BC)

-Make sure every tile you use is fully worked, and make sure every city has at least 2 food surplus (growth is everything). Also, prevent using entertainers.

 

[ozo]

WackenOpenAir, thanks for your tips. I still wonder with that tech thing. I can't ever sell any techs to other AI:s, since they already have traded the techs to eachother. Maybe this will be solved if I can find AI:s from other continents.

Is it better to first build settlers and then workers or the other way around?

 

[Longasc]

Could an expert player comment on the tighter city placement?

I think some are misplaced a few tiles, as Doc already pointed out. The build is also too tight for my liking, but the infinite city sprawl (ICS) strategy is based on very close city placement. I prefer X--X -> 3 movement suited placement, not sooo dense.

The first thing I saw was the lack of mines and irrigation, roads are quite ok.
Optimizing your territory pays off incredibly!

You will need the commerce bonuses of roads and try to become a republic soon to start catching up with the AI in time - okay, I am only a Emperor/Demigod player, but things are probably not soo different.

It is very hard to win this with your level of experience (no offense intended, only judged by your very underdeveloped mining/irrigation, did not load the game actually), but it is not impossible. This might be a good situation for using

FEUDALISM perhaps?

 

[ozo]

Yeh, I know I lack irrigation/mining which is because I lack workers. I tried to expand fast, but that kinda failed when I didn't go for the food resources fast enough. I'll probably start a new game and try to get a worker/settler-factory early on in a city near wheat or cattle. Thanks to everyone who has commented so far, I'll return with my new game later on.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

ozo, i will post or mail an example game on sid difficulty for you soon. The opening went pretty perfect. If you want to go for sid even, you could use the 4000BC save from my game and play that. (it is a pretty good starting position, and i think by playing to the point where i am, i have already proven the game is very beatable)

 

[ozo]

WackedOpenAir, that would be nice to try. I won't probably do very well, but I could ofcourse play the same starting position several times if I want to. I have started a new game and have got a better start, but I'm still far behind in the tech race and I lack both horses and iron.

The biggest problem I have now is how to change to republic. When I bought the tech, I still had to wait twenty turns to do the revolt because I would have run out of money in anarchy with the gpt payment. When I finally was able to change to republic, my expenses were very large and I had to disband a lot of my army. Maybe I should've acquired Currency before The Republic and pop-rush Marketplaces?

 

[Chieftess]

The Iroquois are also Agricultural, so building them on a river or lake gives them 3 food in their city tile. I'd mine a LOT more (try to get your cities to 10, and 15spt, and try to get horses. Then, pump out the MW's like there's no tomorrow, and build catapults, too. Soo who has iron. You'll need it come Chivalry. (Hopefully you have Saltpeter... Cavs!)

 

[ozo]

Chieftess: Thanks, but I'm already on a new game. I decided to work on my opening game. Could anyone give me a clue to when it's good to switch to republic? Right when I can buy it, or should I first get Currency and build marketplaces? The problem is that I can't do the revolution right when I get the tech, since I play gpt. I have to wait 20 turns. Is there something I can do to this?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

ozo:
Seeing you have problems in a couple of areas (Economy, use of Republic, Contacts, City Placement, Expansion), wouldn't it be wise to try Demigod at first?
There, you do have to deal with the additional Settler for the AI, but everything else is more like Emperor (Barbs, Goody Huts,...
Once you get an edge here, step up.

 

[RFHolloway]

No one has mentioned Crackers thread on opening worker moves, which should be required reading for ANYONE looking to move up a level. (see war acadamy for details)

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The problem is that I can't do the revolution right when I get the tech, since I play gpt. I have to wait 20 turns.

Then, why don't you research it by yourself in that time (or even in 50 turns), and buy the other techs? Gov techs are more expensive anyway...