Help in Svartalfar - No Catapult for Siege

[Moon Pine]

I agree Svartalfar`s a good civilization for elven bonus and +1 attack to Scouts, but the problem is it has no siege weapon
Currently, the Calabim attacked me, and refuse to stop fighting. Though I can defend myself well, but I can do nothing against their 100%+ defense-bonus cities. Which means, I can`t end the war, but the war keeps increasing unhappiness in my cities.

Does anyone got some idea on Siege as Svartalfar?

 

[Lone Wolf]

Mages (Illusionists in the Svarts' case) with Fire II promotion can summon Fireballs, that can bombard city defences.

 

[Emptiness]

In addition:

• You can complete the ritual Pact of Nilhorn, which will provide 3 giants that can bombard city defenses.
• The Shadow I and II spells (Blur and Shadowwalk) will allow you to bypass part of the city defenses and make your units immune to first strikes and defensive strikes. (This is usually not as good as reducing the defenses, but it is better than nothing and of course can be used in addition to reducing the defenses.)
• The Entropy I spell (Rust) can remove weapon promotions (Bronze, Iron or Mithril) from defenders, to weaken them, and can also apply a strength penalty to melee units. (Naturally this won't help against non-melee defenders who also do not have any weapon promotions.)
• Any AoE damage spell (such as a Ritualist's Ring of Fire or a Mage's Maelstrom) can injure the defenders before you attack, thus shifting the combat odds in your favor.

 

[Moon Pine]

In addition:

• You can complete the ritual Pact of Nilhorn, which will provide 3 giants that can bombard city defenses.
• The Shadow I and II spells (Blur and Shadowwalk) will allow you to bypass part of the city defenses and make your units immune to first strikes and defensive strikes. (This is usually not as good as reducing the defenses, but it is better than nothing and of course can be used in addition to reducing the defenses.)
• The Entropy I spell (Rust) can remove weapon promotions (Bronze, Iron or Mithril) from defenders, to weaken them, and can also apply a strength penalty to melee units. (Naturally this won't help against non-melee defenders who also do not have any weapon promotions.)
• Any AoE damage spell (such as a Ritualist's Ring of Fire or a Mage's Maelstrom) can injure the defenders before you attack, thus shifting the combat odds in your favor.

The problem I goes pure Scout + Religion (Leaf, of course) with no magic
Maybe, restart, I guess......Just don`t want a Summoned Spam Game like the last one as Sheaim.

 

[mcwill123]

The other (early) option is pumping out and attacking cities with overwhelming numbers of troups. It helps if you have copper too.

 

[Emptiness]

The problem I goes pure Scout + Religion (Leaf, of course) with no magic

That is a problem, especially since one of Faeryl Viconia's traits is Arcane, which is all about increasing the power of arcane spellcasters. My advice would be to add in some arcane magic to your strategy, but if you simply must stick to recon/divine and don't want to use hordes of tigers to soften up your enemies then research Cartography and build the Pact of Nilhorn for the giants to use as siege weapons.

 

[DaveGold]

Frigates and magic barges can reduces city defenses too.

The lack of catapults is a design feature of the elves. You have to plan some other way of taking enemy cities.

 

[mansamusa166]

I think magic barges’ fireballs can completely kill units, and building one fire nod sounds a good option for elves.(with shadow II + fire II mages, cast shadowwalk, summon fireballs and do some damages first then bombard cities if any fireball is left)

 

[ond_magiker]

Don't forget to bring a murder of assassins.

 

[Moon Pine]

Frigates and magic barges can reduces city defenses too.

The lack of catapults is a design feature of the elves. You have to plan some other way of taking enemy cities.

Man, Frigate is late, very late unless I`m alone on a island.

Anyway, Svartalfar`s fun to play - capture animals with +1 Attack Scouts
Then go "peace" with neighbors and steal as many workers as possible with Alazkan
The problem is not only the catapult but also the illusionist can`t make a kill.

 

[Bootsiuv]

These are "problems" by design though....of course your aware that all civs have certain advantages and disadvantages....that's a no brainer, as we don't want 20 civs with different graphics and the same abilities. That wouldn't be very much fun.

If you really don't want to start over, you could always switch to a religion that has some useful AoE spells. Ashen Veil is a solid choice, and OO can be devastating if your attacking a lot of coastal cities.

A few priests should be enough to bring the defenders defense down (thus the city defense bonus will be cut as well, because a 100% bonus to a 2 unit is a lot less than a 100% bonus to a 5 unit), and make the city takeable by a decent force.

The fact that your only using recon is foolish though, as they have a built in city attack penalty IIRC (play modmods these days, so don't remember). Build some melee troops and send them along with the aforementioned priests, and you should be able to take cities after some effort.

EDIT: And for the record, I think recon/arcane would have been a better combination, as priests are generally slow, and will slow down all of your rangers (thus negating one of the biggest advantages of using recon in war) or get left behind. At least the arcane line can cast haste, so they'll have a better chance of keeping up. Not to mention fireballs are your catapult replacement.

 

[Emptiness]

AV Svartalfar is very bad. Ring of Fire can destroy improvements in Forest tiles (including your own). Once Hell Terrain appears it will spread to your territory if the AC reaches 25%, killing all your trees.

 

[Bootsiuv]

Well, you can't make an omelette without cracking a few eggs.

Although I do see your points. I suppose it depends on where you are in the game....if your going for the win, you probably wouldn't care too much about your terrain or improvements, as the game will likely be over soon.

If it's an early war, probably a very bad idea....just one more reason why I would have gone with the arcane line (not to mention that one of Faeryl's traits is Arcane).

 

[Moon Pine]

Hidden Nationality Unit can capture workers But the Capturing Animal -> Great Zoo is awesome (+2 for all cities, and additional from animal cages in cities)

And the Hero Assassin (forgot the name) is crazy - 9 Attack + Mirror, requires only poison AND he starts with Hidden Nationality.
AND it`s very easy to capture animals in early time p though may hurt the economy for unit upkeep), as its Scout has +1 Attack (with +50% Bonnus, its 4.5 vs Animal )

Tech Route is Necessary Start Economy Techs (get Animal Husbandry in time) -> Festival (for the Grand Manageric) -> Poison -> Military Str (for blitz, I didn`t got the Axe) -> Animal Handle -> Deception

Once the Hero Assassin`s on field, I threw him into my poor neighbor`s bolder and hack & slash his units (for EXP ). Then he`s capable to take down cities all by himself and some assassins (World Spell to hide the assassins ^^, Killed all guard and left the city unguarded). Then the war declared with rangers flooding in

The Hero Assassin gots 746 EXP before he`s got killed in a 99.3% odd battle

It feels good to see the AI units flooded to my hero and converted into EXP when I placed my hero on a Hill with Forest and a Zealot (for heal, Nationality not hidden I`ve no religion that time)

Only problem for me is the Arcane Trait is hard to exploit - Svartalfar has only "Support Magic Nodes" - Shadow, Nature and Mind. All of them are not good for build an offensive mage force (Just not worth for Soccery, as Gibbon can get lv2 shadow + lv2 Nature very easy and can move in enemy terrain without hidden nationality or open bolder).

 

[Bootsiuv]

You are aware that you can convert raw mana nodes to whatever you want, assuming you have the right spell school tech (divination, alteration, etc.), so the argument that Faeryl's Arcane trait is hard to exploit doesn't hold much weight IMO.

Also, shadow mana is a decent offensive mana type, as spells like blur and shadowwalk help you negate certain defensive bonuses and defensive strikes IIRC.

Also, the scouts "bonus" vs. animals doesn't actually provide a bonus to the scouts strength, but rather a malus to the animals strength if I'm not mistaken. This lowers bonuses from any combat promos the animal might have, so it can be helpful to know.

 

[UncleJJ]

Also, the scouts "bonus" vs. animals doesn't actually provide a bonus to the scouts strength, but rather a malus to the animals strength if I'm not mistaken. This lowers bonuses from any combat promos the animal might have, so it can be helpful to know.

If the scout is defending against an animal then it is a bonus added to its strength along with any other bonusses. In general, an attacker's bonus is used to reduce the strength of the defender's bonusses. Defender's bonusses including any terrain ones are added to its strength. Combat promotions are an exception (for the attacker) and always boosts the attacker's strength.

In stating the above I am assuming FfH2 combat works the same as BtS. Someone please correct me if I am under a misapprehension

 

[NobbynobLittlun]

Bah, no need to restart. Forget that city - pillage their countryside, station some units to pick off any units that leave the safety of their walls, and go have fun elsewhere. Impoverish their nation, leave their people living in fear, make them afraid to come out at night Then come back later once you've got some siege-appropriate techs. Or you could scrounge up a Great Bard and some acolytes and culture-bomb the city, throw it into revolt.

 

[Moon Pine]

Bah, no need to restart. Forget that city - pillage their countryside, station some units to pick off any units that leave the safety of their walls, and go have fun elsewhere. Impoverish their nation, leave their people living in fear, make them afraid to come out at night Then come back later once you've got some siege-appropriate techs. Or you could scrounge up a Great Bard and some acolytes and culture-bomb the city, throw it into revolt.

Already restarted and win.