Help - Is my Rep Ruined or Not????

[oldStatesman]

I'm confused. I thought that once your reputation was shot, no one would accept gpt for deals from you.

However in my current game, (C3C, 1.22, Large map, 15 other Civs; Archipeligo);I can use gpt with all civs accept one. I just tried to trade with the Zulus, but they refuse to accept gpt deals from me - however every remaining civ will accept gpt for luxs, resources and techs from me.

The Zulu say I broke a deal with the Americans - who they destroyed after a long war many many turns ago. It was news to me since all other Civs think my rep is fine. What probably happend was I had bought ivory from the Ami's for gpt; the Zulu's or Russians attacked them and must have cut a supply route or destroyed their harbor town because I lost it (didn't notice for a few turns that it was gone - I had built the SoZ to get Ancient Cav using the ivory I bought from the Ami's; I got one and when another never appeared 6 turns later I realized I had lost my supply of Ivory sometime in the last 4 turns) - Could not tell because I did not have knowledge of that part of the world it was so early in the game and those 3 civs were mostly on far islands. When I found that most Civ's would still accept gpt from me I thought my rep was fine and forgot about it..until now.

I never "met" the Zulus until after they destroyed the Ami's - and they declared war on me almost immediately because I refused a demand - war lasted for many many years because they were so far away from me on another Island. (I don't think the Ami's knew many Civ's either, the Russians and the Zulus for sure - and possibly one or two more - the Zulu and the Russians are still alive; I don't know if the Russians will accept a gpt because they have nothing I want and are way behind because the Zulu have reduced them to 3 cities.)

My question is why haven't the Zulu's spread the word about how bad I am since the Printing Press has been around for a while and all Civs can communicate - I thought that once the AI Civs started 'talking' they would tell of all past transgressions. Is it maybe because the Zulu's don't have embassies with other Civs yet (Is there a way to find this out?) Should I anticipate that eventually the Zulu's will finally spread the word of my ruined rep and prepare for it?

 

[JG99_Korab]

Its probably because they are just as bad as you

 

[Aardvark]

Your rep is ruined only if the civ has knowledge of it. If the Americans were destroyed before the other civs had contact with them, then your reputation is still good the other civs. They must not have met the Zulus, either, else your reputation would have spread, since the Zulus know of your misdeed.

 

[oldStatesman]

Your rep is ruined only if the civ has knowledge of it. If the Americans were destroyed before the other civs had contact with them, then your reputation is still good the other civs. They must not have met the Zulus, either, else your reputation would have spread, since the Zulus know of your misdeed.

But that is the issue - they all know the Zulu now. All Civs have contact wih all other Civs - the Printing Press has been discovered and that info traded about already. There are actual/potential trade bars from the Zulu to all Civs...that is what is confusing me. I thought the Zulu would have spread the word.

 

[SJ Frank]

Were the Americans destroyed before Printing Press?

 

[oldStatesman]

Were the Americans destroyed before Printing Press?

Yes - the Zulu destroyed them in the AA. AFAIK, myself, the Russians and the Zulu were the only civs the Americans had contact with. Maybe one or two more, but I can't be sure. I doubt the Americans even had writing.

 

[SJ Frank]

Well, the data set may to too small to draw any concrete conclusions, but it sure sounds like AIs prefer to hear about treaty breaking from first party sources

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

That whole thing doesn't make much sense:
If you paid gpt for Ivory, and the trade route is killed, nothing would happen. If you paid gp, it'll be the Americans who get a rep hit. Not you.

And even if your rep would be toast, you still can buy resources or luxuries for gpt anyway.

Are your sure you can buy techs for gpt (or simply, 1gp for 1gpt) from those Civs that have contact with the Zulu?

Are you sure you offered something reasonably to Shaka? Not far to less for a tech, or more gpt than you actually have?

And, the AI often tells nonsense about whom you betrayed (just like your advisor tells such nonsense like "We know the xy have betrayed our friends the z" - while "z" is our archenemy...).
So, while a betrayal has happened - it don't have to be the Americans.

 

[SJ Frank]

I thought about it too. I know that a straight lux (import) for gpt deal would not result in loss of rep for the player. However, I think if the Americans included anything up-front, like gold or tech, in the said lux deal, then when the deal got broken, the player does lose his rep.

 

[oldStatesman]

That whole thing doesn't make much sense:
If you paid gpt for Ivory, and the trade route is killed, nothing would happen. If you paid gp, it'll be the Americans who get a rep hit. Not you.

And even if your rep would be toast, you still can buy resources or luxuries for gpt anyway.

Are your sure you can buy techs for gpt (or simply, 1gp for 1gpt) from those Civs that have contact with the Zulu?

Are you sure you offered something reasonably to Shaka? Not far to less for a tech, or more gpt than you actually have?

And, the AI often tells nonsense about whom you betrayed (just like your advisor tells such nonsense like "We know the xy have betrayed our friends the z" - while "z" is our archenemy...).
So, while a betrayal has happened - it don't have to be the Americans.

The problem is it happened so long ago in the game I really don't remember the exact details of the trade - but knowing my trading style there is a very good chance that cash and/or a lux of my own going back to the Ami's was involved. Unfortunaltely I don't thimk I have have a save from that far back....but I'll look.

But my rep is definately broken with the Zulus only. They will not sell me techs, or accept gpt from me. No matter what I offer - I offered 300 gpt for an early MA tech at one point - the other civs with that tech were falling all over themselves to trade with me but Shaka would not go for it in any way. I get the "There's no way they'll accept that", and when I still try anyway Shaka tells me I am a cheat for breaking a deal with the Ami's.

It makes no sense to me either.

It's not an issue that my rep is broken to me, but I just want to know how to deal with it if the other Civs will eventually find out...I didn't think reps worked this way.

BTW, The Carthaginians just declared war on me; I was able to get every other civ to join me in an MA dogpile against them - since I was barely in the tech lead (by one tech over Shaka, Carthage and India) I was able to bribe Shaka with medicine - no gold involved - I tried to get a measly 1 lump sum gold from him but my advisor gave the "no way" message; and Ghandi with Medicine to get the MA; I was also able to get Ghandi to throw in MilTradition and a whole lot of cash and GPT; the other Civs accepted gpt, old techs or cash from me. So now me and Shaka are allies...go figure!

 

[oldStatesman]

Well, I figured it out - I did have a save where I saw the original trade. I did trade a tech and 1gpt for Ivory. And from the following screens shots I am able to trade with the Zulu after all, but at extremely high prices compared to the other civs - included Ghandi's offer for comparison. I guess I just never went high enough. It still puzzles me why I get the message about betraying America at times...especially when I put in 1 gpt - trade with the Zulu is really hard compared to the other civs. Can you have a partially broke rep?

(EDIT: I am not sure how to include a screenie in the post body itself so I attached them.)

 

[SJ Frank]

So Doc was right, you didn't have a broken rep

Just to be sure, I need you to try this test:

- offer the Zulus this trade: X gold for their world map, increase X until they would accept the trade.

- then, add 1gpt on your side of the deal, so: 1gpt + X gold for Zulu's WM.

- Is the deal acceptable now? Or do they change from acceptable to "never" when you added the gpt? This is the test that I usually apply for testing reps.

BTW, the deal with America that you outlined, the 1gpt+tech for lux deal, will not result in a broken rep for you (unless you declared war against the Americans). What can break your rep are deals like this:

1) you offer: lux -- America offers: gpt.

If the trade route is distrupted, only the party that is exporting the hard goods loses rep. The party that's paying for the hard goods is fine.

2) you offer: gpt -- American offers: upfront goods, like gold or tech.

If this trade gets interrupted for some reason (other than Americans declaring war on you), then you lose rep, because you have gained by not having to pay rest of the gpt payment.

 

[oldStatesman]

So Doc was right, you didn't have a broken rep

Just to be sure, I need you to try this test:

- offer the Zulus this trade: X gold for their world map, increase X until they would accept the trade.

- then, add 1gpt on your side of the deal, so: 1gpt + X gold for Zulu's WM.

- Is the deal acceptable now? Or do they change from acceptable to "never" when you added the gpt? This is the test that I usually apply for testing reps.

That's exactly why I started this thread in the first place - I used that very test and thought my rep was broken; but only the Zulu's gave that result.

If I offer 1gpt for anything - even on top of an acceptable deal as you describe - they immediatly refuse as in the above screenies. But it seems if I go high enough, exorbitantly high, 10x's+ what all other civs want, they will except gpt from me.

Strange.

I also just remembered very early in this game getting a lux for some gold and a tech from the Carthaginians, and the very next turn the deal "disappeared". The Carthags had the tech though...and I was out some gold; but when I went to the trade screen there were no deals showing. I reloaded from the autosave but they still had the tech and I still had no lux. I chalked it up to a glitch and traded them somethong else to get the lux and moved on...maybe something happened to the program while in memory and the save file got corrupted or something - I have been having weird issues with I.E. - I suspect a possible trojan on my pc but so far unable to track it down.

Oh well. Thanks though for all your help.

 

[SJ Frank]

I remember a while ago, some one posted a way to repair reps by paying that exorbitant price once, then when the deal come up for renew, the AI was willing to pay the regular price again!

So, if you don't mind padding Shaka's coffer for the next 20 turns...

 

[oldStatesman]

I remember a while ago, some one posted a way to repair reps by paying that exorbitant price once, then when the deal come up for renew, the AI was willing to pay the regular price again!

So, if you don't mind padding Shaka's coffer for the next 20 turns...

Really! Hmmm, I'll have to load that save and see if it works...that would be cool! Expensive but cool! Plugs a possible exploit but still allows the player to gain back their rep if they really really want to...I'll attach the save for that turn I got the screenies from if you want to play with it...(don't mind the rest of the game - I'm still learning and fooling around - this is my first time on Monarch ) [Edit: It's C3C 1.22.]