Help me understand Trade Routes and Trading Posts

[andymant]

So, first of all, I have to comment on how unappealing I find international trade in this game compared to the extraordinary power of boosting your city production with intra-empire routes. I'm worried they are going to "fix" this problem by doing what they did in BE, which is give intra-empire routes a huge nerf. There are other ways to address the disparity: making the hike in production costs for districts not so damning, providing policy cards that generate more production and food from international trade, etc. Even making it so that an active trade route must exist for resources to be traded (or accessed through city-states).

ANYWAY! Trading posts. The text says that the bonus to gold from trading routes is gained when passing through cities with a trading post, but what does this actually mean? Does the trade route have to go directly through the city center? How likely is this considering the AI for trade routes is extremely derpy. Seriously, the trade routes go the shortest route possible as the crow flies, completely eschewing existing roads and routes, so what the heck is the point of trading posts? Or, do they only have to pass through a city's controlled territory?

 

[TehJumpingJawa]

I believe international trade *would* be balanced with internal trade, if foreign cities were properly arranged & more frequently included industrial districts.
As-is while the AI's insane production bonuses make up for their terrible cities, it makes them lousy trading partners.

 

[andymant]

I believe international trade *would* be balanced with internal trade, if foreign cities were properly arranged & more frequently included industrial districts.
As-is while the AI's insane production bonuses make up for their terrible cities, it makes them lousy trading partners.

Even if the AIs have industrial districts, I think the bonus is only 1or 2. I think all the bonuses should scale with what that city has or how big the city is, or maybe the adjacency bonuses of the districts that provide additional bonus on the route.

Also the fact that there are no bonuses to receiving civs is weird and rather dissonant with the idea of "trade." Aside from trade routes providing derpy roads and useless trading posts, the trading system in civ 5 and BE was so much more robust.

 

[TehJumpingJawa]

Even if the AIs have industrial districts, I think the bonus is only 1or 2. I think all the bonuses should scale with what that city has or how big the city is, or maybe the adjacency bonuses of the districts that provide additional bonus on the route.

Also the fact that there are no bonuses to receiving civs is weird and rather dissonant with the idea of "trade." Aside from trade routes providing derpy roads and useless trading posts, the trading system in civ 5 and BE was so much more robust.

What's the trade bonus based on?
I thought it was the adjacency bonus of the industrial district; meaning the AI bonuses are so bad because the AI has no idea how to optimally position their districts.

 

[andymant]

What's the trade bonus based on?
I thought it was the adjacency bonus of the industrial district; meaning the AI bonuses are so bad because the AI has no idea how to optimally position their districts.

It's a hard bonus I believe. According to a civ6 wiki, it's 1 for an industrial and 1 for an encampment.

 

[andymant]

Bump. Still looking for any definitive answers on trading posts. Do traders merely have to pass through city territory to gain the additional bonus, or do they have to go through the city squares? And does anyone prefer international trade to domestic trade?

 

[Promethian]

Trading posts do not give more resources. I know there is documentation that says they do but by default they do not. There is a policy that makes them give bonuses but I find it weak because it only counts foreign cities.

What trading posts do is extend how far a trade route can go. By default a trade route can reach 15 hexes from its origin. Passing through a city with a post refreshes this distance. So you could reach a city 20 hexes away as long as you have a city with a trading post in between.

 

[andymant]

Trading posts do not give more resources. I know there is documentation that says they do but by default they do not. There is a policy that makes them give bonuses but I find it weak because it only counts foreign cities.

What trading posts do is extend how far a trade route can go. By default a trade route can reach 15 hexes from its origin. Passing through a city with a post refreshes this distance. So you could reach a city 20 hexes away as long as you have a city with a trading post in between.

Thank you, that answer was pretty informative. I guess my question is still, what counts as in between? Does it need to be along the actual line that a trader makes to get from point A to point B, or does he merely have to cross through city owned territory? Because the trader AI is not smart, it will go in the straightest line possible without considering existing networks.

 

[King_Course]

Isn't it so, that if a trade route can reach a city without using a trade post, it will do so. If it can only reach a city by using a trade post, it will do so.

So if you make a trade route to a far away city, at the end there will be a trade post. Now you can reach cities 5 tiles further out from the trade post, and they will be presented as choices next time you must chose a target destination.

 

[aggri1]

Hi. Have a question about trade routes and this seemed a sensible place for it.

I have two cities, say A and B. They're on separate landmasses, both on the coast. Each has sent the other a trade route at one stage or another, so both have Trade Posts. They're about 25 tiles apart. On a third landmass near city B is a foreign city, say C. I'm not at war with this Civ, and it's less than 30 tiles in distance, so city B can send a Trader to city C. However, should not city A also be able to send a Trader to city C, provided city B has a Trade Post? A and C are more than 30 tiles apart so they can't trade directly.

I'm confused as to how Trade Posts are supposed to work, because I thought that if needed, a Trade Post would be used to extend a Trader's range.

Thanks.
A.

 

[Tech Osen]

Hi. Have a question about trade routes and this seemed a sensible place for it.

I have two cities, say A and B. They're on separate landmasses, both on the coast. Each has sent the other a trade route at one stage or another, so both have Trade Posts. They're about 25 tiles apart. On a third landmass near city B is a foreign city, say C. I'm not at war with this Civ, and it's less than 30 tiles in distance, so city B can send a Trader to city C. However, should not city A also be able to send a Trader to city C, provided city B has a Trade Post? A and C are more than 30 tiles apart so they can't trade directly.

I'm confused as to how Trade Posts are supposed to work, because I thought that if needed, a Trade Post would be used to extend a Trader's range.

Thanks.
A.

As far as I know that is how it's indeed supposed to work but I also run into issues occasionly where I can't figure out why city A to F can reach H but G can not.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

As far as I know that is how it's indeed supposed to work but I also run into issues occasionly where I can't figure out why city A to F can reach H but G can not.

One thing that comes into play is that the range is based on the number of tiles the Trader actually travels, rather than how far away the two cities are. The trader from one city

A second possible issue seems to relate to the need for a Harbour to move through a city to a more inland city on the same landmass. I haven't looked at this closely, it's just an impression I've had that there seems to be some finicky rule about where Traders can enter the sea and where they can exit the sea that makes it difficult to trade with a city on another landmass that isn't right on the coast.

 

[aggri1]

One thing that comes into play is that the range is based on the number of tiles the Trader actually travels, rather than how far away the two cities are.

Thanks. I counted distance via ocean tiles. And as far as ocean-land transitions go, all three cities in my situation were on the coast.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Thanks. I counted distance via ocean tiles. And as far as ocean-land transitions go, all three cities in my situation were on the coast.

Can the Trader go from one of your cities to the other (i.e. pass through it) and then reach the foreign city, all with less than 30 tiles in total being traversed?

That's my best current guess as to what might be happening. So fun to play a game when you can't figure out how it's supposed to work, to be able to then figure out whether this is a bug or not.

 

[aggri1]

Can the Trader go from one of your cities to the other (i.e. pass through it) and then reach the foreign city, all with less than 30 tiles in total being traversed?

A and C are more than 30 tiles apart so they can't trade directly.

Since they're all on the coast and hence mountain blockages don't apply, I presume bug.

 

[Mesix]

How are trading posts considered in trade routes? Are trading posts linked to an origin city, or once a trading post exists in a city can it be used by any of the player's cities?

Example 1: The player has 3 cities which are all withing 15 tiles of a CS (let's say it's Toronto for the example). On the far side of Toronto lies another CS (let's say it is Babylon) which cannot be reached from any of the three cities (so it is perhaps 20 tiles total). Once the first trade route has completed the trading post in Toronto, can all three cities now reach Babylon with future trade routes, or only the city which built the trading post as the origin of the trade route?

Example 2: The player also settles three cities on the far side of the continent. These three cities are all 15 tiles from Babylon, but cannot reach Toronto. If the player completes a trade route in Babylon, can the three distant cities now also reach Toronto? If there are trading posts in both Toronto and Babylon, can the three distant cities and the three original cities reach one another for internal trade routes making use of the two trading posts?

 

[RaidandTrade]

I think you also need to have “discovered” the tiles along the route so if you have “fog” tiles between your trading post city and the city you want to get to, you can’t get there - even if it’s technically in range. (Usually more an issue if the trading post city yours).

 

[Naeshar]

How are trading posts considered in trade routes? Are trading posts linked to an origin city, or once a trading post exists in a city can it be used by any of the player's cities?

The trading posts are assigned to the player (civilization), not any particular city. Also, you can check in city details, who built a trading post in a city (the constructor is listed in brackets).
You can get gold from passing through that city later.

Example 1: The player has 3 cities which are all within 15 tiles of a CS (let's say it's Toronto for the example). On the far side of Toronto lies another CS (let's say it is Babylon) which cannot be reached from any of the three cities (so it is perhaps 20 tiles total). Once the first trade route has completed the trading post in Toronto, can all three cities now reach Babylon with future trade routes, or only the city which built the trading post as the origin of the trade route?

Yes, the trading post in Toronto resupplies and extends the range. Imagine this as a network where you can send a link to any other node within range, and within range of any trading post in range.
If you happened to build a city next to Toronto before the trading post is created, you might see that you can send a route to Babylon from this city, but not the other cities.

Example 2: The player also settles three cities on the far side of the continent. These three cities are all 15 tiles from Babylon, but cannot reach Toronto. If the player completes a trade route in Babylon, can the three distant cities now also reach Toronto? If there are trading posts in both Toronto and Babylon, can the three distant cities and the three original cities reach one another for internal trade routes making use of the two trading posts?

Yes, exactly.

 

[Mesix]

Thanks for the information. This is how I thought it worked, but I thought I would ask in case I misunderstood part of the system. I am still trying to unlock the elusive achievement for Russia having a trade route which extends 60 tiles.