Help with City Placement (pics included)

[thejuicygoober]

Hi! First time thread, long time reader. So I just got the game and I'm not exactly sure where I should place my second city.

Here is my current map.
What I think are potential city spots are marked by the colors.
My only city, Mecca, is the in the center of the dark green.
America currently has one city and is the civ in the fog to the right and with the pig resource.

Now my questions are
1) Should I build my second city on the red dot? Or a tile west of the red dot to close the borders (though I'll lose the sheep)?
2) Should I build my third city on the blue dot or is that stretching my reach too much? (Too close to America/ too far from me)
3) Where would you found your fourth city? (The yellow dot looks really attractive to me!)
4) Should the pink and orange dot really just be one city? (The orange seems like it has a lot of crappy tiles and could just be moved one tile east towards the nicer lands and still get the 2 incense and the 1 fish)
5) Should I found the light green city for the whales or is that city too much of a waste compared to its mantience? (Oh and the purple dot is next to water if you couldn't tell)
6) If not specificially mentioned above, are there any dots you think I should move one tile or something? (Like maybe blue SW one tile or light green west one tile)

Now I know that civ is all about playing the game the way you want/ dynamicly reacting to your oppenents to but I still feel I'm just making guesses about where to build. That's why I'm asking yhall for your suggestions! Thanks!!!

I'm playing on noble difficulty, standard size, continents, and my play style is builder/defensive.

-Charlie

Thanks again for the help!!! I'm watching intently for your comments!

 

[Rabbit_Alex]

As a builder/defensive player, I would go for either the red square. Try to build up alot of cultures in that city to keep the Americans from expanding towards you. The wheat will let the city's population grow pretty quickly, the horses will let you build cavalry and other mounted units, and the marble? is useful in building the Parthenon and other wonders, wonders that can increases the city's culture and spread its borders.

Best of luck and welcome!

 

[Islandia]

Personally I'd build the second city on the desert one to the left. That will only overlap your capital by two squares and turns a worthless square into a useful city square. City three would be in the forest 2 squares under your blue dot.

 

[Zevus]

red dot, best by far, no matter what you're trying for really.

 

[suspendinlight]

Colorblind so forgive me if I confuse any of the colors you are talking about...

1) One tile west of the red dot would make you lose the horses, not the sheep, no? I would found the 2nd city one square north of the red dot to allow you to have better options when placing your southeastern city (purple?). Plus this will give you quicker access to horses if you are thinking about early war.
2) The blue dot seems a reasonable enough spot for a second city. If you get obelisks in the 2nd and 3rd city quickly enough you'll effectively cut off much of the coast to your north and west.
3) Is the yellow dot the one by the sea to your west? Yes, it does look nice. However, I would go for the location marked by the (purple?) dot but one square northwest (on the hill) since your coast should be closed off or nearly closed off by your cultural borders. The Americans are likely to have already settled near there by the time you produce that 4th settler though.
4) Yes, they should be one city. Building a city in the desert is useless. I would move the pink city one tile to the east and build there or possibly 2 tiles east if you are concerned about health (you get a health bonus from being next to a river)
5) I'm not a big fan of whales. You won't even be able to use them for a while up the tech tree. By the time you get to that tech, your cultural borders may have expanded enough so that you can get the whales for their happiness if nothing else. The tundra is pretty useless terrain.
6) Just obvious, pay attention to the copper and iron as they appear ont he map and adjust your cities accordingly.

Let us know how it goes!

 

[fightcancer]

What civilization starts out w/Mecca? None of my answers take into account your civilization's playing strengths as I don't know which one you're playing. You said you like to play the defensive builder so we'll keep that in mind.

1) Should I build my second city on the red dot? Or a tile west of the red dot to close the borders (though I'll lose the sheep)?

Yes. Build it on the red dot. (Are those horses I see?? If so--all the more reason to build there! Be sure to head for horseback riding and decimate America quickly with horse archers.) Staking out land to the E will prevent America's encroachment upon you.

2) Should I build my third city on the blue dot or is that stretching my reach too much? (Too close to America/ too far from me)

It's not too far. It's within the 5-8 range from your capital, so its distance will only cost one additional gold coin for distance upkeep and one additional gold coin for being your 3rd city.

I like the blue dot for your third city. First, it prevents American expansion. Second, it has wheat for faster growth. Third, it has coastal access for navies and future growth via lighthouse.

3) Where would you found your fourth city? (The yellow dot looks really attractive to me!)

Purple. It will solidify your boundaries with the blue and red cities as well as give you a luxury commodity for happiness, gold. The deer will speed growth and it's within the 5-8 range as well so upkeep will not be a problem. Consider moving the purple and light green dots 1 west.

4) Should the pink and orange dot really just be one city? (The orange seems like it has a lot of crappy tiles and could just be moved one tile east towards the nicer lands and still get the 2 incense and the 1 fish)

No. Keep the 2 separate, but don't hurry to build them. You're right about orange being crappy. You should be able to get at least 3 towns out of it though. I don't see many shields coming from orange though. These two, pink and orange, are so close to the capital that their distance upkeep will be only 1 each (5-8 range).

5) Should I found the light green city for the whales or is that city too much of a waste compared to its mantience? (Oh and the purple dot is next to water if you couldn't tell)

I'd found it one square to the W (left) of the light green dot. Right now it looks like it has only coastal, oceanic, and tundra squares. Moving it one W will give it the unused grassland tile for a town (farm is unnecessary as you'll have plenty of food on the coast with the eventual lighthouse) and 3 (?) more coastal tiles.

6) If not specificially mentioned above, are there any dots you think I should move one tile or something? (Like maybe blue SW one tile or light green west one tile)

Light green and purple 1 W each. Moving blue SW one will only give it more desert (why?) and take away its wheat until it can expand culturally.

 

[Heroes]

Your city places are so-called OCP (optimal city placement) in civ 3 term. The good point is every city gets 20 tiles. The downside is some gap tiles will be never used, and you won't get 20 citizens to work all the tiles with a city anyway. I would personally prefer "loose packing" (again civ 3 jargon), sth. like cxxxc. The main idea is to waste zero tile, and let your cities have reasonable room (12-18) to grow. It's almost a sin to see a good tile not covered by any city!

 

[Wlauzon]

One thing I see right off is that you are going by the old Civ3 city squares, and that is not longer needed. A city can actually use resources far outside of that range, depending on it's cultural borders.

From what I understand, it can only get food and trade from the "fat cross" squares, but any resource such as horses or iron, only has to be within the cultural borders to be used.

 

[incubuspawn]

Hi! First time thread, long time reader. So I just got the game and I'm not exactly sure where I should place my second city.

Here is my current map.
What I think are potential city spots are marked by the colors.
My only city, Mecca, is the in the center of the dark green.
America currently has one city and is the civ in the fog to the right and with the pig resource.

Now my questions are
1) Should I build my second city on the red dot? Or a tile west of the red dot to close the borders (though I'll lose the sheep)?
2) Should I build my third city on the blue dot or is that stretching my reach too much? (Too close to America/ too far from me)
3) Where would you found your fourth city? (The yellow dot looks really attractive to me!)
4) Should the pink and orange dot really just be one city? (The orange seems like it has a lot of crappy tiles and could just be moved one tile east towards the nicer lands and still get the 2 incense and the 1 fish)
5) Should I found the light green city for the whales or is that city too much of a waste compared to its mantience? (Oh and the purple dot is next to water if you couldn't tell)
6) If not specificially mentioned above, are there any dots you think I should move one tile or something? (Like maybe blue SW one tile or light green west one tile)

Now I know that civ is all about playing the game the way you want/ dynamicly reacting to your oppenents to but I still feel I'm just making guesses about where to build. That's why I'm asking yhall for your suggestions! Thanks!!!

I'm playing on noble difficulty, standard size, continents, and my play style is builder/defensive.

-Charlie

Thanks again for the help!!! I'm watching intently for your comments!

Dude you have a dream set up there I can see wy you want to do it perfectly, it is not often to have such a nice possible city layout.
ANyway ID do red first and turn it into a archer builder, spam out those archers while your main city spams out the settlers, then place the blue one to the north, that looks like a great place to pump out workers. then the purple to do additional army units, and finaly the oarnge to close the gap. the oarnge one will not grow very big SO I suggest landing a filler city somewhere in the no zone unless you plan on letting that all become forest.
I say red dot first for 2 reasons. Forst you can get some archers out of there very fast, second it's position allows you to react to someone else moveing in on the blue or purple city.

 

[Lord Chambers]

I'd go red, then yellow, then to war to take the American land, since it's over a river and the other spots aren't worth settling so early.

 

[Heroes]

One thing I see right off is that you are going by the old Civ3 city squares, and that is not longer needed. A city can actually use resources far outside of that range, depending on it's cultural borders.

From what I understand, it can only get food and trade from the "fat cross" squares, but any resource such as horses or iron, only has to be within the cultural borders to be used.

A city can connect to resources outside its border but inside empire territory, this is true also in civ 3. The difference is there is no longer colony outside territory.

 

[Mathduck]

I would build one up and two to the right from the red spot (direct connected borders with the cultural expansion shown on your picture). The second city is the blue one.
Leave borders closed.
After that point it is impossible for the Americans to settle on any other color because the units may not travel through your teritory. (there seems to be water right of the purple city, you should check that)

Of course culture needs to be most important in the moved red and the blue city.

I would try to found the third city to the right or upward of the blue because that land would be owned by another nation soon. (if not already at this point). Don´t trade sailing to the Americans.

Then you can settle all other cities. With that you will need to have high taxes and low science to aford all the cities so i would pay America tribute if they want it (i play on prince and America military would outnumer mine because of the settler-buiding) for some time.
Later, when the cities grow, you will catch up fast.

Only my opinion so be nice and kind to me

 

[dh_epic]

My first two cities tend to be one very competitive location, and another really safe location. The safe city provides backup for my capitol in case of an early war, while the competitive city steals away a key city location from my rival.

A key, competitive location is something with multiple resources and at least one strategic resource. Iron, Copper, Horses, or even Ivory are important to keep away from the AI.

 

[Nilrim]

Well personally I would go Red for stratigic as well as resource reasons, I would attempt if possible to get one in Purp and blue before the other guy can, then do NOT allow open borders tell you can back fill the other areas. Then you can make all nice with your neigbours after you have aquired all the prim areas

 

[MiamiBigAL]

Well personally I would go Red for stratigic as well as resource reasons, I would attempt if possible to get one in Purp and blue before the other guy can, then do NOT allow open borders tell you can back fill the other areas. Then you can make all nice with your neigbours after you have aquired all the prim areas

Exactly on red dot is good, because it's GOOD to have horses inside city radius. Yes, you'd be able to use horses if it's just outside, but they give around 2 food 2 production with a pasture straight off the bat, which is useful in early game. Also, you still have access to fresh water and upwards of 5 forests giving an extra +1 and +2 health respectively. I'd settle Yellow for a 3rd city, as 2 food sea resources + coast + WHEAT AS WELL? OMG? It's classic specialist/commerce/tech whoring city. Then go rape those blasted yankies!

 

[Nilrim]

And if you are real lucky he is being squized from his East by another Civ which will make him easy pickings early in the game.

 

[Astax]

Very cute map. However I pack cities a lot tighter than what you have, I could fit 5 more cities in between your map. I can tell some of the coastal placement is necessary to nab all the resource tiles, but I can still fill the spaces between your cities with cities.

I'd probably move the yellow city down to the right a bit so it has one clam, and build another city between where your pink/yellow is ATM to get the other clam for starters. Overriding city grids are no problems, especially on a map like this where you are right next to the guy and you'll be fighting for space.

 

[ComradeDavo]

I'd go for the red dot first. Try and grab the land in the east before the Americans do!

 

[Nilrim]

Very cute map. However I pack cities a lot tighter than what you have, I could fit 5 more cities in between your map. I can tell some of the coastal placement is necessary to nab all the resource tiles, but I can still fill the spaces between your cities with cities.

.

You have to turn away form the dark side .... I know in Civ 3 you would be right but with Civ 4 I think you are much better off getting the most out of each city not the most citys.

 

[Mannu]

1) Should I build my second city on the red dot? Or a tile west of the red dot to close the borders (though I'll lose the sheep)?

IMO - on the red dot. You crowd your opponent and if you can get enough culture quickly in that city you can keep him from settling the southern part of your continent there. It appears as though a bay seperates you not far south of the red dot. Plus access to Wheat and Sheep and Horses makes this a viable city, but you need to expand the culture in it quickly.

2) Should I build my third city on the blue dot or is that stretching my reach too much? (Too close to America/ too far from me)

Stretching too much if you ask me, but I guess it depends on what is under the 3 tiles that are not exposed. If there is another food resource there then it probably is worth it.

3) Where would you found your fourth city? (The yellow dot looks really attractive to me!)

If you blocked him with the red and the blue cities then yes, this is a great city loc.

4) Should the pink and orange dot really just be one city? (The orange seems like it has a lot of crappy tiles and could just be moved one tile east towards the nicer lands and still get the 2 incense and the 1 fish)

Tough call. you can't get both fish. Since you are a builder and probably won't be taking better cities from the AI, I would do two cities and found the orange one first since it gives you the resource (is it incense?)

5) Should I found the light green city for the whales or is that city too much of a waste compared to its mantience? (Oh and the purple dot is next to water if you couldn't tell)

This should be your last city and you should only do it if you don't discover whales somewhere else. You can't create a fishing boat until optics anyway.

6) If not specificially mentioned above, are there any dots you think I should move one tile or something? (Like maybe blue SW one tile or light green west one tile)

Move the light green one west if there are additional resources in the ocean that you can't see. If not then I think they are all fine.