Help with Dune Scenario

[Ballazic]

I am making a dune scenario and was wanting suggestions on units and terrian ideas. I will post my progress.
The civs will be
Atrediades
Harkonan
Ordos
Imperial Saduaker legion
Fremen

I have seen i a dune scenario before but i feel it did not do justice to the C&C game. Any suggestions will be welcome.

 

[yaroslav]

Is it based on the novels or on the C&C-style game?

 

[Ballazic]

C&C game. And I would like to expand apon the game. I want more units, and different tech levels. I was thinking of designing more like a mod pack with a scenario attached.

 

[Lazarus Plus]

I hope that you will at least spell the Great Houses right... I'd be glad to help you beta test it, or something, BTW...

 

[Nebula Dragoon]

Were you going to base it off of "Dune 2000" or were you going more for the "Emperor" feel? I liked the mecha (what few there were) from "Emperor" myself.

 

[Ballazic]

Dune 2000. I kinda got off the project but i plan to get it revamped

 

[drug]

I would like to help with graphics! give me a task!=)))

 

[Ballazic]

Can you design the terrain. You are fameliar with Dune right.

 

[drug]

i can try, but it's easier for me to drow units!

 

[Ballazic]

well than work on the units. its fine any help is very welcome.

 

[yoshi]

I could try and think up some ideas for you to use but I've never played Dune.

I can help you with the mechanics but you'll have to post more info on your scen like how the map is going to be set up, what kind of unit variations you're looking for and what you want the scen to do in general.

 

[Ballazic]

I'm thinking basically a map that has oceans of unusable sand dunes and a lot of mountians and cliffs. Dotted with oasises and city sites.

 

[yoshi]

What do you mean by unusable? No food, shield, or trade production?

Are you using Civ2:MGE or Civ2:Test of Time?

If you were using ToT, I would suggest limiting the worms by making mountains impassable (set 'impassable' terrain flag) but checking the 'override impassable' flag for the other units so that they can enter Mountain tiles where the worms can't.

I would be cool if cities would have to fight over the few oasis just to survive. Would give the player incentive to be aggressive and think out each move carefully.

 

[Yuri2356]

I would be cool if cities would have to fight over the few oasis just to survive. Would give the player incentive to be aggressive and think out each move carefully.

An OASIS? On DUNE?

I get what you meen though, areas of land that everyone fights over (rocks)
Apecial terrain could include:
Spice (for the sand, HUGE trade bonus)
Ice cap (for rock near the south pole, extra food from the water mined)
Weather Station (on rocks or cliffs, bonus sheilds/food from the abandoned equipment)

If you need info on stuff from the novels, Just ask me! I've read all of the ones that happen on Desert Dune.

 

[yoshi]

What the heck do I know about Dune? I only saw the movie (haven't read the book so I have nothing but that distant, very faded memory to go on). All I clearly remember is the huge worms coming out of the sand, to be honest...hence the focus of my suggestions.

I can definitely help with scenario mechanics though:

If you're using ToT, you could also add a second 'subterranian' map with transport tiles all over it linking to transport tiles on the main map (only on sand tiles) and give only worm units the ability to use transport sites. That way, you could have worms popping up when you least expect them to.

An alternative is to randomly spawn worms all over the map and set the 'destroyed after attacking' flag for that unit type (this is so that you don't get a multiplier effect--more worms each time a new one appears). That way, you get a similar effect without having to use another map--just don't set too low a value for the 'denominator=' parameter in the 'RandomTurn' trigger or you will probably have too many worm units popping up and Dune will be overrun with worms...except for rocky tiles. The advantage of doing it this way is that you can use Civ2:MGE, but you won't have the impassable terrain. In MGE, the only way I can think to stop the worms from entering rocky tiles is to surround the rocky tiles with immobile air units belonging to your civ, thus your units can go in and out but the worms can't (they can't attack air units). The problem then is that other civs can't enter the rocky terrain either. Other than that, I can't think of another alternative except maybe some clever use of Ocean terrain making it look like land and giving your civ all heli air units or something...but then you'd have the loss of health problem for air units with 0-fuel, which is overcome only in ToT...well, that was pointless.

Another alternative: if using ToT, you could use the 'Delay' modifier with the 'UnitKilled' trigger to spawn (CreatUnit action) a worm x # of turns after a worm is destroyed. This will ensure that the worm population is not eliminated by an ambitious player, while keeping the worm population the same but not re-spawning them immediately--just remember to populate Dune with x # of worms from the start otherwise this event will be pointless.

(I'm giving you options so that you can use the one--if any--that best suits the needs of your scen.)

BTW, in these examples I'm assuming you're going to use the Barbarian--8th--civ for Dune's wildlife.


Does Dune have changing weather patterns or is it always...uh...Dune-ish? If the former, you can use a batch file to change the terrain (or any other files; e.g. Rules.txt) to match the weather.

The more info on Dune you post, the more civ-equivilants I can post.

 

[Yuri2356]

Dune is Dune is Dune is Dune is Dune is Dune is.....

But there is weather, mostly windstorms and tornadoes.
The series also has long-term (best estimate was 300yrs) terraforming, so you could give an advanced worker unit unique to the fremen (it was their idea) that could slowly turn rock into more productive terrain.
something like:
Rock-->small plants-->shrubs-->palm trees-->oasis
the process would take forever though, as much as 20-25 turns per phase.
Ideas for terrain improvements:
Irrigation=Dew collector
Farmland=Wind trap (it's a powerplant and a dehumidifier!)

 

[yoshi]

Just windstorms and tornadoes huh? I think in that case using batch files would be unecessary.

Various scens have included storms as Barbarian air units with the 'Destroyed after attacking' flag set that spawn in certain 'storm-prone' parts of the map at certain times during the year or on certain years. These units basically go about the map until they find and an enemy unit and destroy it unless they run out of fuel first.

Thing is, if you have Fighter units (air units with 'Attack air' flag set) you have an odd situation where Fighters attack storms--but the storm unit usually has a high defence factor thus the Fighter is destroyed (assume it flew into the storm and crashed).

I found that using the ChangeTerrain action to destroy units on squares that fall within the values under the 'maprect' parameters is another way of recreating the killer-storm effect. Of course this means that the worm units, which are meant to be subterranian, would be destroyed as well.


Terraforming is an interesting idea to play with. You seem to have thought that aspect out fairly well.

All I can think of is to use the RECEIVEDTECHNOLOGY trigger with the ChangeTerrain action to automatically terraform with the discovery of tech.

You could also use Engineers to terraform certain land squares to water. This will allow you to irrigate the surrounding area.

Where irrigation is concerned, the River terrain feature can be modded to look like a special terrain tile (no loss since I doubt there are rivers on Dune). You can irrigate on and around those tiles as well. (Unfortunately, the River tile 'improvement' can't be built or even placed using a ChangeTerrain event so you'll have to place them from the beginning--and I do mean beginning since they can't even be placed using the cheat menu in-game; River must be placed using the map editor. Although, there might be some utility that can add them to a saved game file.)

I was just thinking about something: since you're map is all land, you could technically give the land units the air unit domain thus they would have range limitations (i.e. can only trek around Dune for so long before taking the sand-nap) and you don't have the stupid effect of having 'land' units moving over Ocean tiles. This conflicts with the actual air units since land and air units will be the same and you will have to set the 'attack air' flag for the land units so that they can attack each other but then they will also be able to attack actual air units which is somewhat unrealistic since not all land units shoudl have an anti-air ability. Then again, maybe Dune has few aircraft and you can do without actual air units. I don't know.

 

[Yuri2356]

Air power is an important factor on dune, what with ornithopers & carryalls being vital for spice production, so you can't just remove air.
Another way to do this would be to surrond all rock areas in impassible terrain, keeps worms out and your ppl in. Any infantry equiped with a stillsuit (advanced desert survival gear) would be able to cross the desert safely. Do you know how to make air units transport? That would be the best way to use the carryall, as a helicoper-style transport.

 

[yoshi]

Okay, forget the air/land unit idea.

When you say, 'impassable terrain,' I'm assuming you're referring to the feature in ToT. MGE doesn't have this feature. I was offering alternatives in case you don't have ToT. If you don't, Cedric Green can help you out.

Units with the Air or Land domains can't transport. If you give them the 'Can carry air units' ability they can refuel other air units but it won't take them with it when it moves so you have to move them with it; only the 'Sea' carrier holds units (i.e. units automatically go into 'Sleep' mode). Land units can ONLY be carried by sea units (with a hold greater than 0). An unfortunate downside of Civ2. Air units with 0-fuel (helicopter) can occupy cities though, so you can just assume that it is carrying a certain type of land unit.

 

[Boco]

Sounds like a helluva good topic.

This is off the top of my head, but what about using ocean to portray deep desert, land to portray sinks (habitable land), and maybe impassable land as rocks in the desert? Desert-able land units would be civ2 helicopters. Worms would be naval units, possibly subs or with the ToT invisible flag. Air units could be, well, air units. Sand crawler factory ships could be naval transports.

Yoshi's multiple map idea is great. Shifting sand (I forgot what the potential spice mining areas were called) could be a unit on a square with a portal. When it gets knocked off, the portal is open. If a worm is on the other side, then run for the rocks.