Help....

[Nabirius]

So I am new to Fall from Heaven, Civ 4, and Civ in general. I really want to play this game and have a good time, and I did okay in my first few games of Civ 4. But I am having a really hard time with FfH2. I have tried playing as the Amurites, Kuriotates, Lanun, and the Calabim. But I generally quit around turn 200. The opposing civilizations seem to advance way too fast for me to catch up, and I'm only on Noble difficulty (maybe warlord, I forget).

After getting crushed yet again as the Amurites, I decided to seek help here.

Here are my issues:

1) I feel pulled to tech in many directions at once, and I can't advance the rate at which I science fast enough. What do I science? How do I science faster?

2) Enemies seem to gang up on me all the time.

3) My cities often refuse to grow, they get unhappy super fast, and I can't fix it without some very expensive techs that do nothing else for me. Sometimes I just can't build any farms.

4) What civics to use?

5) What religion? My favorite flavor-wise is Empyrean, but other than Chalid it doesn't do much for me, given its insane tech requirements.

6) Enemies out-military me very early on, and there is no way outside some direct damage spells to get through an early longbowman.

 

[A Moon]

Hi, welcome to Fall From Heaven : )

1) The tech tree is divided into different "branches". Roughly: Economic, metal, horses, archers, recon, religion, and magic. (That's oversimplifying it, but still). Focus on one branch, don't try to unlock everything. But don't spend 40 turns researching the next magic tech or whatever when you could spend 5 on a more basic tech that would still be useful.

Generally the branch you want depends on your civ. The amurites, for example, really want to unlock firebows, their longbowman UU, because firebows are ridiculous. The calabim want governor's manors. The Kuriotates want centaurs. Have a look at your unique units and buildings, and see which techs you need to build them.

The fastest way to tech is to trade with the AI. Research an expensive tech, and trade it to the other civs for all the cheaper techs they researched instead. Eg: I research a 3000 beaker tech, and then trade it to 3 ai's for a 2000 beaker tech each. I've now profited by 3000 beakers, giving me an advantage over all of them. If none of the ai's have techs they can trade you, it might be time to crush some them with your superiority.

Or, attack a civ, and before you take their last city, offer peace. They'll likely give you all of their techs (and possibly everything else they have) in return for mercy.

2) Most likely because you don't have a very strong military. The AI can smell weak armies. Keep an eye on the power graph, and try not to fall too far behind them. Don't build every building in every city, remember to pop out an axeman every now and again. (Unless you're playing as a financial leader. In which case, build markets everywhere). Use buildings to specialise your cities: Put barracks in a city with high-production and make most of your military there, then build the heroic epic in that city. Build health and and happiness buildings in that city which has 5 flood-plains, then build the national epic for lots of great people.

As you uncover terrain, think: "If I built a city here what would that city do?" Lots of hills? Military city. Grassland and fresh water? Cottages and/or Aristo farms (see below). Don't expand too slowly. The fewer cities you have, the slower you build military units, the less resources you can claim, the more likely the AI is to walk into your territory and eat you.

3) Try to get as many luxuries as you can. Trade your surplus for others with the AI. And when your cities really can't seem to get any larger, have them build a settler, then change which tiles they work so they don't grow any more. No point harvesting food they don't need when they could be working hammers and commerce instead. Unless you're the Calabim. Then just grow your cities as large as you can, then eat them.

4) Mostly it depends on which civ you're playing as, and your current situation, but as a general rule: Aristocracy and Agrarianism. Then build farms. If you're playing as a financial leader (Flauros of the Calabim is the typical example) you have basically won against the AI at this point.

5) At the beginning of the game, the Runes Of Kilmorph works for nearly everyone. The extra money from the temples. Build a priest in your high production city, have him accompany a settler and build a temple in the newly-founded city. If you found the religion, make a great prophet to build the shrine.

The real prize for the runes is Bambur. Early-game heroes are the best heroes, because the early-game is where you decide if you're going to win the game. Build Bambur, build some warriors and soldiers of Kilmorph, walk over to your nearest neighbour and crush them.

6) See above for for building lots of military units. As for heavily defended cities: Use direct damage spells. The top candidates are: Fireball, Malestrom, and the Ashen Veil priest's ring of fire. The Veil has the strongest priest units (unless you're playing a map with lots of water. Then the Octopus Overlords wins out). After your initial conquest with Bambur, feel free to switch to the veil. RoK doesn't have as much to offer you in the late-game. The Veil does.

Alternatively, build catapults. Lots of catapults.

When attacking, mentally split your army into two groups: Heroes and high-xp units are the first group, the cannon fodder is the second group. Do your collateral damage however you want, then, check if your heroes have 99.9% odds to win. If they do, use them to kill the enemy's strongest units. Other wise, throw your fodder at the enemy, even if they have a low chance of victory. If they die, not a problem, you can build more, and they'll almost certainly do some damage to the enemy. If they win at low-odds, they'll get a large amount of xp, and you can move them to the high-xp unit group. Care for and upgrade your high-xp units, and you'll develop a very powerful army for the mid and late-game.

I've made a lot of simplifications here. You'd be best off visiting the strategy and tips sub-forum and reading all of it. Yes, all of it. Have a look at the ideas suggested there, and you'll see things that make you go "I want to try that." Then try it. Experiment with new ideas. Don't be discouraged if you lose, Fall From Heaven has a bit of a steep learning curve. If you keep at it, it won't be too long before you can win the game on Deity with any civ.

Hope this helps.

 

[TheIO]

Empyrean is actually quite a decent choice, what with Crown of Brilliance on the Luridus being at least the second-best direct damage spell in the game. And Chalid is one of the best religious heroes - his Sun affinity got him up to 22 strength in one game of mine.

Just bear in mind that Empyrean is a late-game religion.

 

[Blakmane]

Amurites can be tough, but try this basic strategy:

1) Go Valledia the Even (Dain is also fine, and a better leader ultimately, but valledia is simpler)

2) Ideally settle somewhere with happy resources and a lot of fresh water for farms. Spam farms on every viable tile (cottages on plains is probably optimal but there's nothing wrong with 100% farms) and mines on hills.

3) Don't worry too much about high tech units or religions to begin. Your first focus should be on getting calendar for agrarianism and then education for apprenticeship -> code of laws for aristocracy. Adopt all three of these civics. Grab your happiness resource enabling technologies as they become relevant/available. You may need to detour to construction if you don't have a lot of fresh water to build farms (construction lets you irrigate land near fresh water, enabling farms on them too).

4) Up to this point you should be pumping warriors and settlers. Choosing when to build and when to expand is one of the hardest things to learn in any strategy game, so there's no easy way to judge this. However, 100% of the time in my experience, the biggest issue new players have is that they produce too few cities and too few military units, instead focusing on things like buildings which don't usually provide much for their cost. Use the power graph to determine whether you are stronger than your neighbours or not: if they are stronger, build warriors. If they are weaker, invade or build settlers. If you had to detour for construction, build catapults (lots of catapults) and be aggressive with them.

5) Tech straight towards firebows (bowyers). Build archers as necessary. Immediately upgrade your firebows to fire 2 when they become available. Begin mass production: your main production cities should be producing nothing but firebows. At this point the game stops being hard and starts to become easy for the Amurites vs the AI.

6) Tech for mages and your hero, as well as side techs like military strategy for command posts and sanitation for better farms. You may also go pick up your religion of choice. At this point you've likely already won or lost.

Hopefully that helps!

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

play Extramodmod, it's much much superior to vanilla FFH. you can actually choose civics instead of having to go with the same ones every game and whatever you do, don't use the Erebus mapscript unless you're in love with labyrinths XD

 

[scutarii]

One of many noob mistakes in ffh2 , I fell at the same trap too - to build build and build buildings.

But unlikely from Civ4 - agression and expanding is rewarding due several differences:

1. Promotions in ffh2 matter more
2. buildings are expensive
3. defenive units - archers - are mainly passive "placeholders" - can't repel looting/invading units
4. low level promoted units beat new but unpromoted ( read: no war exp) ´units.
5. the most efficient unit via hammer -strenght ratio - a bronze warrior - favours early agression and expanding

 

[Calavente]

well, I won't go into all these strategic details.
However if you want to learn FFH, follow the script told by Kael:
-start with hippus, (the most straightforward)
-then Bannor, (the second most straightforward)
-then try Khazad ("We don't need no magik")

then whatever you want
as a side note, Ljosalfar are also a good initiation civ:
-powerful worldspell that helps detter the first gang-attack on you
-focus only 1 line : archers are everything: they defend... but can also repell invaders (+1attack str)
-focus only 1 religion : FoL is everything
-you can build under forests
-early game hard-to-break turtle, late game powerhouse due to aristofarms under forests... or even towns under forest


what scutarii means by 4) : early game units (low tech units) highly promoted (lvl5-10) beats a higher tech unit without promotion anytime)

 

[Nabirius]

Thanks for the response everyone, I recently won my first game as the Calabim, although the difficulty wasn't very high. The advice on how to trade technology was very useful.

Since I like Magic a lot I figured I might ask what kinds of magic are worth investing in. Death Magic seems pretty insane, what with the army or free minions, the temp summons scaling with death mana. So it seems pretty ridiculous, but it also shoots all your diplomacy right in the foot.

I hear people talk about fireball a lot, I thought at first that it had fire affinity, but now that I see that it doesn't, I'm a bit confused as to why it is considered good. How do I should I be looking to use fireballs.

Also I like Crown of brilliance, but compared to Ashen Veil ritualists it comes way too late. Getting dirrect damage early appears to me at least to be key in breaking through the AI's defenses, especially long-bowmen. Some people have recommended having an early game religion and then switching into one of the late game religions when necessary. The early religions appear to be Followers of the Leaves, Octopus Overlords, and runes of kilmorph. and of those only OO has direct damage, and it seems quite situational. RoK seems to have a neat level 3 ability in earthquake, and some nice economy-boosting. So how necessary is direct damage? Are their easier ways to get it than Ashen Veil? Also can I get a Holy City wonder, for a holy city that I control, but is not my state religion?

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Thanks for the response everyone, I recently won my first game as the Calabim, although the difficulty wasn't very high. The advice on how to trade technology was very useful.

Since I like Magic a lot I figured I might ask what kinds of magic are worth investing in. Death Magic seems pretty insane, what with the army or free minions, the temp summons scaling with death mana. So it seems pretty ridiculous, but it also shoots all your diplomacy right in the foot.

I hear people talk about fireball a lot, I thought at first that it had fire affinity, but now that I see that it doesn't, I'm a bit confused as to why it is considered good. How do I should I be looking to use fireballs.

Also I like Crown of brilliance, but compared to Ashen Veil ritualists it comes way too late. Getting dirrect damage early appears to me at least to be key in breaking through the AI's defenses, especially long-bowmen. Some people have recommended having an early game religion and then switching into one of the late game religions when necessary. The early religions appear to be Followers of the Leaves, Octopus Overlords, and runes of kilmorph. and of those only OO has direct damage, and it seems quite situational. RoK seems to have a neat level 3 ability in earthquake, and some nice economy-boosting. So how necessary is direct damage? Are their easier ways to get it than Ashen Veil? Also can I get a Holy City wonder, for a holy city that I control, but is not my state religion?

It's funny when two completely different threads run in parallel

It may be cheating to copy someone else's answers, but regardless, here you go:

Very good adept spells:
Haste (body; speed is extremely important)
Floating Eye (metamagic; great for excellent recon for both offense and defense)
Raise Skeleton(death; disposable and permanent summons are almost always useful)
Slow(ice; freezes many units in place and slows down the faster ones)

Situationally powerful adept spells
Enchanted Blade (enchantment; it's great if you have a lot of melee units)
Courage (spirit; this is mandatory if you're trying to beat units with fear, such as AC units)
Fair Winds (air; if navies are important)
Rust (entropy; great if you're fighting units with metal weapons)
Sanctify (life; it's the only way to remove/control hell terrain)
Spring/Scorch (water/sun; you can modify terrain to a limited degree)

Most mage spells are decent, but here are some of the better ones:
Blinding Light (sun; immobilizes most of the units within range for a turn. Immobilizing also prevents spellcasting)
Destroy Undead (life; destroys undead units if you cast it a few times. This is the most viable way to handle pyre zombies.)
Dispel Magic (metamagic; it's the only way to repurpose mana nodes)
Fireball (fire; they're basically sunmoned cruise missiles)
Maelstrom (air; it's a decent AoE. You'll tend to use this if Ritualists seen't available)
Mutation (chaos; it randomly gives promotions to your units. Some of them are pretty good and unavailable otherwise)
Regeneration (body; it's great to avoid attrition)
Summon Host or Pit Beast (law or entropy; summons units that are great for killing large quantities of weaker units or "wall of bone" summons. Hosts are also disciple units and get +1 movement for SPI leaders.)
Summon Spectre (death; 2-move summons with fear that get stronger if you have lots of death mana)

Priest spells:
Fellowship of Leaves: Bloom plants forests. You'll use this if you want more lumbermills or are playing an elven civ.
Runes of Kilmorph: Shield of Faith gives a modest combat promotion to your units. You'll use this if you're already using RoK for other reasons.
Order: Bless gives your units +1 holy strength temporarily, but you can reapply it after each combat if you want to.
Empyrean: Revelation destroys illusion summons and reveals hidden units. Use this if you're fighting Illusions or hidden units. (Empyrean units also get easy access to the Blinding Light spell)
Octopus Overlords: The water walking priests can cast Tsunami, which is a powerful AoE available near water tiles.
Ashen Veil: Ring of Fire is a decent AoE and one of the best priest spells.
The Council of Esus doesn't have priests, but EitB has given them some spells I'm not familiar with.

Most Archmage (and High Priest) spells are pretty good, but will rarely be available. Pick those based on what your goals are at the time. High Priests in particular are almost never built, but upgrading a priest to Druid gives you access to them.

Very good adept spells:
Haste (body, speed is extremely important)
Floating Eye (metamagic, great for excellent recon for both offense and defense)
Raise Skeleton(death, disposable and permanent summons are almost always useful)
Slow(ice, freezes many units in place and slows down the faster ones)

Situationally powerful adept spells
Enchanted Blade (enchantment, it's great if you have a lot of melee units)
Courage (spirit, this is mandatory if you're trying to beat units with fear, such as AC units)
Fair Winds (air, if navies are important)
Rust (entropy, great if you're fighting units with metal weapons)
Sanctify (life, it's the only way to alter hell terrain)
Spring/Scorch (water/sun, you can modify terrain to a limited degree)

The current spells I have on my mages are one with level 2 fire and level 2 enchantment and one with level 2 water and level 1 fire, who I am considering using on my elven neighbour who is the score leader behind me. The enchantment 2 one was basically just for my adventurers. Are these good selections?

Well, they're probably not ideal


Fire 2 is okay- that allows you to summon Fireballs, which are kind of the jack-of-all-trades of summons- they can cause collateral damage (but not as much as a pure attack spell, like Maelstrom), they can kill units (but don't hit as hard as most summons), and they can bombard city defenses (which is unique to them). Fireballs generally don't see a lot of use in RB MP, but they aren't bad by any means.


Enchantment 2 has a very specific purpose- it gives +1 strength to archery and gunpowder units. It can be useful if, for instance, you are playing as the Ljosalfar or Amurities and are building an army of their LB UU. But it isn't going to do anything for you otherwise.


Water 2 grants the casting Mage (and only the Mage) the permanent ability to walk on water tiles. This can be very useful- parking Mages with this ability + some attack spells on a small lake will make them invulnerable to anything that isn't also capable of water walking or flying. But this spell also does not do any damage on its own, so unless you have a plan that involves sticking casters on water tiles it's best to avoid it.


Fire 1 unfortunately doesn't do any damage, but it does burn away forests and jungles, albeit slowly. The spell adds a "smoke" modifier to a single jungle or forest tile; smoke reduces the tile defensive bonus and has a chance of turning into fire, which turns the forest OR jungle into a "burnt forest", which will slowly regrow into a regular forest over time. Most units cannot walk through fire tiles either, making them impassible until either the fire dies down of its own accord or you cast the Water 1 spell "Spring" next to it. Fire 1 is most useful for setting a few fires in any vast jungles the map generator produced, which will eventually burn them down, to be replaced with forests. Of course just chopping them is often faster. I wouldn't burn down the Elves' forests though- because Elven civilizations can build improvements on top of forest tiles, that makes their forests very valuable for non-Elven civilizations to capture intact.



You'll very likely need a few more mages as well- I would bring at least a couple with Maelstrom (Air 2), and one with Mutate (Chaos 2) to provide several potentially useful promotions to your line-fighting units. Any priest unit with Medic II can cure the majority of bad promotions you can receive through Mutate.

Fire 2 is okay- that allows you to summon Fireballs, which are kind of the jack-of-all-trades of summons- they can cause collateral damage (but not as much as a pure attack spell, like Maelstrom), they can kill units (but don't hit as hard as most summons), and they can bombard city defenses (which is unique to them). Fireballs generally don't see a lot of use in RB MP, but they aren't bad by any means.

Fire 2 (Fireball) can be quite useful as a replacement for siege units -- as Bobchillingworth noted above the fireball is (I think) unique as a summons that can bombard defenses. Most siege units are non-living and are not affected by Haste (Body 1), so they are often slower than the rest of your army. Having fast-moving mages that can then summon fireballs to reduce defenses can save a lot of time. And you can always throw them at stacks for splash damage to soften up enemies.

Fireball also is very important for the two elven civs, as they are unable to build standard siege units.

I find the Body mana spells extremely useful:

Body 1 (Haste) -- A single adept with Haste can boost the movement of an entire stack, at least the living members. Being able to move your forces rapidly can be extremely powerful.

Body 2 (Regeneration) -- Adds the regeneration promo to every living member of an entire stack, greatly boosting their healing rate. Have a medic unit (disciple or priest) along as well and your armies will heal incredibly fast. It's like having a super-medic GG unit.

Death magic can be powerful for spamming a bunch of summoned units (skellies and spectres). To really get the most from this you want multiple sources of Death mana, and a large number of adepts/mages with the spells so you can summon many undead.

Air 1 (Fair Winds) is really useful if you have a lot of naval units, as it boosts ship movement. If you are mostly on land, it can be ignored. The next tier spell Air 2 (Maelstrom) is a solid AoE damager, so Air 1 is not a dead end like some mana types.

Water 1 (Spring) is situationally useful if you have a lot of desert, as it permanently transforms desert tiles to plains. (Flood Plains are not affected, but oases are.) Very helpful if you have a big chunk of desert in the middle of your lands. Note that if you founded a city on desert this will remove the defense penalty for the city. Also puts out burning forests and jungles.

Sun 1 (Scorch) is a similarly situational spell, useful if you have a lot of ice tiles. Scorch will permanently transform them to tundra, which is still crummy but can be improved. With the right civics and techs, a tundra farm is actually not a bad tile. Tundra can also have a forest planted on it if you have a Priest of Leaves available, followed by a lumbermill for some hammers. It can be a big help if you have iceball cities planted to claim resources or mana nodes -- Scorch can turn them into decent cities.

Lots of other spells can be useful in the right situations. But the above are useful for pretty much anyone, if you are building some adepts and need something to do with them while waiting for passive XP to accumulate.

Thanks guys, really useful information so far. Are there any spells or spell branches that tend to get very little (or no) use in multiplayer? If so, which ones and why?

My present alternative to spells...

Spoiler :

(Yeah, I'll up the difficulty next time.)

Everyone's already given good advice but I remember writing something about the choice of magic tech for a mage army in thread for 33, so might as well paste it.

I've been doing some thinking on what path I want to go through to Sorcery. I already have Body, Chaos and Earth mana and I'll get Metamagic at Sorcery obviously. At the moment I see 5 mana nodes that should be mine. The options:

Alteration:
Enchantment(20% strength), Life (destroy Undead), Nature(meh)

Not bad for support mages, when you consider my main opponents are Pyre Zombies and Calabim spectres. But I already have the most important body mana and no summons is obviously a problem for a mage army.

Divination:
Law(Hosts of Einherjar), Mind(Inspire, Charm), Spirit(Hope), Sun(Scorch, Blinding Light), ToD

Hosts make very good summons, they beat Zombies and spectres(need 6 death nodes to tie) and Blinding Light is a great support spell. In addition, Hope would be a very nice method of popping borders. You'd think the ToD would be a big draw, but I'm not sure what I'd take with it. Inspire, Charm, Scorch are all minor boosts too, though I'm not sure what the advantage of Charm is over BL.

Elementalism:
Air(Maelstrom), Fire(Fireball), Water(Spring)

Maelstrom and Fireball is not a bad combo. Both only give collateral to 30% though. The big problem is the opponents, Fireballs will only be (S2 v S4) against zombies. They deal with spectres well enough (S4 vs S3) but it's my understanding that they disappear before they can defend, can anyone confirm this? No pillaging either.

Necromancy:
Death(skels, spectres(S8)), Entropy(Rust, Pitbeast), Shadow(meh)

Spectres are the big draw clearly. High strength, 2 base moves and can pillage. They do worse than Hosts vs Zombies and enemy spectres though. Actually Pitbeasts are probably better against those two opponents, but again they're worse than the Hosts. Rust is a good spell, and skel spam is nice as well, but I'm inclined to think Blinding Light has more flexibility than them.

Are there any spells or spell branches that tend to get very little (or no) use in multiplayer? If so, which ones and why?

Yeah, a few... let's see:


The Shadow Line

None of the Shadow spells are necessarily bad, they just aren't particularly useful against human players. The first Shadow spell, Blur, gives your stack immunity to first strikes- but human players generally don't use many units with first strikes. Plus some mounted units ignore them anyway. The second Shadow spell is Shadowalk, which enables your stack to ignore city defenses from buildings. Unfortunately human players typically don't build many city-defense increasing structures, plus there aren't any buildings which give a very large city defense bonus, and you could just bombard the city with some Fireballs instead. The final Shadow spell is Summon Mistform- Mistorms are really weak T4 summons in regular FFH, but are like disposable Assassins in EitB, which would be really useful... except if you manage to get a unit capable of summoning them, you'll probably prefer to expend your limited promotions on other, even more powerful spells instead. They're also worthless as Illusions, so the Svarts (who start with Shadow mana) and Gibbon (whose Esus shrine gives Shadow mana) have no reason to bother.


The Nature Line

Nature 1 gives units a 1-turn defensive bonus in forests; this really has no use except a little extra protection when invading Elves. Nature 2 gives +1 strength to recon units, which can be really useful- although several civs won't have much reason to bother with the recon line beyond Hunters, and captured Scorpions in EitB can cast it. Nature 3 is theoretically awesome- a terraforming spell which enables you to eventually transform all of your land into grasslands and plains. Except by the time you can reach it, it's probably too late to get much benefit from tweaking your land. There is also a ritual which essentially does the same thing, except instantly for every tile you own, and some T4 units come with Nature 3 for free.


Those are the two least-seen. I would also add Spirit if you don't need units who can resist Fear, and Life if you aren't combating Hell terrain and/or undead. Spirit 3 has the dubious distinction of being the single-worst spell in the game, at least in base FFH. I forget if EitB buffed it.

Apologies for length, but I felt they were too relevant to spoil.

 

[Calavente]

Qgqqqqq wall of text can be trusted, for magic.

I'll add:
Nature II can be useful (if you have it by chance) as it gives poison blade : +1str to recon units.
so hunters/rangers get more powerful and FAWN (FoL units) can get it too iirc, and without the city attack penalty of hunters.

and vs AI, I'll add that Mistforms (shadow III) are Hidden nationality units iirc. So you can harasse your good friends, and kill their spellcasters or assassins, or catapults in preparation of a war.
about useless against human player.

for your question on holy city:
if you were the first to the religious tech you get the holy city in a city.
in those cities you can bring a Great prophet to build the Holy Shrine, even if it is not your religion.
further, normally, somes shrines can be "bought" by some others great people:
FoL : G Bard
AV : G Sage
RoK : G Artisan (G engineer)??
Rok/Esus : GM (thx BobCW)

/regards

 

[BobCW]

RoK actually requires a Great Merchant, as does Esus.

 

[Bad Player]

I'm not a great player by any means but some pointers that might help compared to regular Civ4 are:
- cottages->towns grow much faster in ffh2
- you may well want to change religion during the game for many reasons (and that is the general gameplan for some civs such as the Svartlfar)
- warriors with copper weapons are very hammer efficient in the early game

 

[Qgqqqqq]

- cottages->towns grow much faster in ffh2

This is flat-out not true. If anything, cottages are worse then in base (because they upgrade to less and better alternatives are available), and no emancipation means that if anything they grow slower.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I think he's remembering the old bug that made them grow at double speed, they were actually good back then before the bug got fixed and aristograrian became the only economy

 

[Blakmane]

- you may well want to change religion during the game for many reasons (and that is the general gameplan for some civs such as the Svartlfar)

Svartalfar --> FoL.

Don't go esus with svarts. You can found it, but don't convert. FoL gives svarts everything they need.

 

[BobCW]

Yeah, plus the Svarts don't have a Spiritual leader. The Ljo do however, and as awesome as FoL is, she can also make great use of hopping into RoK, the Veil and the Empyrean for varying stays.