here it is: Atlantis

[Spearthrower]

The myth of Atlantis is prevalent in many more cultures than those with Greek traditions...... and they all have the same syllables in them to some degree (i.e all share an "atl" syllable).

I've read countless books on countless theories.... from Antarctica, to Thera, Minoa to Spain.... actually, Atlantis has become politicised quite a lot thanks to people trying to nationalise it and capitalise on it.

As the only definite documentary evidence we have comes from Plato, we can only work from the assumption that it was "beyond the Pillars of Heracles" - which was the name for the straits of Gibraltar (but "beyond" which way? Out into the Antartic Ocean or North or South?)..... it's size was approximately that of the Iberian peninsula....... the "sinking" could be used to indicate a financial or other collapse rather than a literal descent into the waters.

The myth of Atlantis will persist forever in humanity..... that makes it a great additional civ! Good work

 

[Kaell]

Not entirely correct.
Yes the only historical account is from plato, who got the story on his travels in egypt.
But the pillars meaning the straight of gibraltar is 100% conjecture.
There is no historical fact at all that explains what's meant with the pillars of heracles. Do a search among the archeological and scientific communities, good reference work and you'll find that we have no clue what the pillars of heracles are.
I know it's widely accepted to mean the straight, but widely accepted does not make it fact. It's the conjecture that's widely accepted

It's one of the worst kinds of conjecture, namely conjecture which is commonly thought of as fact, which it is not.

You can add to the uncertainty that because plato got this story from someone else, and we don't know who or where he came from. depending on that person point of view, the other side of the pillars could be any side as far as we know, if that person came from coastal islands of the west coast of africa e.g. then the other side of the pillars from his perspective is inside the mediterranean.

Also keep in mind, as the world at the time was pretty small compared to our full global view we have now. outside the straight could put it anywhere on the globe, as the people did not know what the ocean behind the straight was shaped like, how big it is, and what else was around.
In modern view, a continent past the straight sure sounds like the america's. (a different name for the aztec, mayan and or olmec cultures perhaps?)

Also Plato does keep talking about a continent, now I don't know what their size requirement was to call something a continent (granted it has zilch to do with size, but for them it did). Any known continent now, would not fit in the atlantic. But southeast of india and nort of australia is a mesh of islands (indonesia) and previously dry now flooded ocean floor between them. during the last ice age this was a continent (well just by landmass) after the ice age it got flooded and only the highlands stick out as islands now. If anything is a lost continent it's there imho. the shape even resembles conjectural maps of atlantis. And it would still be past the straights of gibraltar on any map of the time (draw a circle around the middle eastern and mediterranean earea and fog of war the rest like back then and anything not in the mediterranean is beyond the pillars.

To me it's simple, if there really was a civilization, the continent on which it sat 'sank' then it's indonesia. We have exactly one flooded 'continent'-size landmass on the planet .

(my conjecture):
Although.. the last ice age.. the timing would be surprising. Dating on the sphynx (not often published for obvious reasons) puts it at 11500+ years of age gave or take. the original face resembled olmec statues more then the egyptian persuasion. 11500+ years coincides with the end of the ice age.
The ancient indian texts about seemingly modern warfare add to the mystery. nuclear warfare could easily cause rapid climate change, ending the ice age and flooding the indonesian continent (atlantis). leaving only traces of their culture after such a devastating war and natural disaster, like the over 10000 years old sphynx. To boot, the sphynx as extensive water damage up to a certain height.

They did finally find that there indeed is a chamber under the sphynx, I hope they explore it soon. With the age of the thing, there might be some really surprising, history altering discoveries to be made down there. downside is, the chamber most likely flooded back then (water damage on the outside of the sphynx).

3000 year old indian texts Ramayana and the Mahabharat talk about amongst other things a modern war. Here's an excerpt from the Ramayana about a partical weapon known as the Flame of Indra or the Weapon of Brahma: "... a blazing shaft possessed of the effulgence of a smokeless fire (was) let off...'. '... This makes the bodies of the dead unidentifiable. ... The survivors lose their nails and hair, and their food becomes unfit for eating. For several subsequent years the Sun, the stars and the sky remain shrouded with clouds and bad weather'." It even talks about a mushroom shaped cloud, now go read what happened to the survivors of hiroshima and nagasaki
They also have the same concept of cyclical time as the aztec calendar and conceived of time units as small as 1 /1000000th of a sec. up to 3 trillion years.
They also describe the universe exploding into existance (creation) and annihilation with conservation of energy, using the energy to explode again ad infinitum.
One of the theories we have in modern day since, (big bang and big crunch, though I'm not a big fan of either.. too limited lol, there's even more going on (quantum mechanics and string theory but that's very offtopic here)

And here's your lost 'continent' the only one earth has to offer:

18.000 years ago. Look at indonesia.

All I can say about the amazing indian texts. they either had the technology, remembered having it at some time or they could really look into the future. one of the vedas texts refers to a 2 storied flying machine with lot's of windows..!? btw have you seen the new airbus already? lol

Really if you want a dramatically interesting read, read the various Vedas which are ancient.. and compare it to what you see around you now.
The way it's written sounds like an ancient person ported to the 21st century and trying to describe what he sees.

 

[rene_ryou]

it's much more likely that the myths of sunken cities prevailant in most regions in the world (Atlantis is the most famous to us because it was in the proto-western area) are like the universal flood myths. in my personal opinion, atlantis will never and can never be found because of the timeframe in which it was located, the heavy population in the area over centuries, and the likelihood that it was destroyed by "the flood"

 

[MacGyverInSpace]

who got the story on his travels in egypt.

Simply put, it must be Alexandria. The Cleopatra's/Ptolomys capital. The Great Light house etc etc. A lot of Old Alexandria is under water.

Wait. Never Mind. Plato was before the Romans ended Greco-Egypt...

Therefore the only possible answer is that a species evolving from the same primate line as humans and looking exactly like them inhabited only a small portion of the Earth millions of years ago. The grew up to explore the galaxy. For environmental reasons they then retreated to small, advanced biodome cities on Earth. Eventually most left Earth and the final remain city developed a Star Drive and headed to another galaxy, Leaving only two of their wormhole generation travel devices behind. Years later after the last city, Atlantis, left Antartica, they were swarmed in the new Galaxy by an enemy inferior in technology yet superior in numbers. Upon their return they discovered that the rest of their kind had, facing a plague, ascended to a higher plane of existence, as per FHH's tower of mastery victory. Their return 10 000 years ago utilized on of the Worm Hole devices, located in Egypt, and their story has passed through the generations, inspiring many tales and eventually a Stargate Spin-off. Check Cheyenne, all will become clear then.

My typing fingers just spazzed out...

 

[Kaell]

lol.. sure and we're fighting a secret war to save our species, and goauld ships aren't flying pyramids but saucer shaped in the real version

I know of a theory (by a non scientist lol) that tries to link various old myth, legend, history and religion to a stargate type object.
Lazarus pit from the bible, the old sumerian mythology about god's from space and enki's stargate in iraq (the supposed real reason the US went to war lol) and the vedic text which also mention some form of gateway to the gods. and atlantis is just another name for the place the god's came from, eden if you will.
Peronally I think she needs counceling and some schooling in history and mythology because it's all very loose and very much transformed the stories to fit her theories, and now she speaks of a second lost stargate in.... antarctica, it's a retelling of sg1 with some real archaeology thrown in here and there I guess.

The sumerian texts are interesting though like the vedic texts to read with our technological hindsight.
Amongst other thing's it says the god's came from space to mine resources here. They created a slaverace from local stock to do the work called Lulu (that's us) and the way it's described sounds, nowadays, a lot like genetic engineering lol. Some religions and mythologies are quite, weird to read in the 21st century. You'd have to wonder, how did they imagine something like the vedic and sumerian texts not living in a sci-fi influenced and technologically developed culture we have now. Unless it's true ofcourse.. but then.. archaeology, im sure a ship the 'gods' came in must have survived time if stone buildings can. But there is none.

There is an archeological artifact called the stargate, but it's a tablet with a map of constellations and such and deals with meditation and what happens after death.

I find it surprising though how many of the more ancient religions and mythology view gods as coming from space in ships, some even mentioning which star they supposedly came from.
It's why Stargate the movie ('94) struck me so much. I hate the later spin off series, they completely destroy the story and point the movie is about to make a knockoff series for the masses.. we call this milking in dutch.
Luckily the series aren't concidered canon and now that emmerich and devlin are thinking about finishing the original trilogy they announced they wil disregard the series completely and make the story as it was supposed to be. yay (sg1 is the worst, atlantis I kind of like but that's more due to the great and funny cast.)

PS. When Plato got the story in egypt, the story was already about an ancient happening.

 

[fatsomgun525drp]

It could be anyone of the places or just a myth, the story I think was supose to teach you not to be greed or something like that

This isn't just to u but also 2 evere1else 2 so yea. If Homer or whoever wrote about atlantis was greek im not sure it coulds been in the antarctic or pacific ocean. Like MORE then likely atlantis (if it does/did exist) is/would be in the meditereanean Sea

 

[fatsomgun525drp]

It could be anyone of the places or just a myth, the story I think was supose to teach you not to be greed or something like that

This isn't just to u but also 2 evere1else 2 so yea. If Homer or whoever wrote about atlantis was greek im not sure it coulds been in the antarctic or pacific ocean. Like MORE then likely atlantis (if it does/did exist) is/would be in the meditereanean Sea

 

[kanoval]

i personally think Atlantis was on Santorini and/or the Minoan civilization Crete.

If Homer or whoever wrote about atlantis was greek im not sure it coulds been in the antarctic or pacific ocean. Like MORE then likely atlantis (if it does/did exist) is/would be in the meditereanean Sea

just an interesting fact i heard was a theory suggesting that the Phoenicians were blown off course on one of there treks around Africa and landing somewhere on the American continent.

Also the Romans had trade routes that extended as far west as china.

moral is that ancient people had the ability to get to anyplace we can get nowadays. they had the same brains we have now. the question is whether they got there.

 

[meatwad4289]

actually.. in Stargate they say its in antartica, and they used some actual theories on what happened(mixed with some scifi storyline) There was a special on History Channel as well that stated some of the theories that were said in the show.

SG-1 : Millions of years ago an ancient race settled upon the earth. Overtime they built the stargates and spread to other worlds and spawned life including spawning life here. A plague happened, killing most of the race, the surivvors went to Atlantis and Atlantis(which was also a giant city shaped space ship) left for a new galaxy. over millions of years The Continents shifted and Antartica was pushed to the southern pole where it was frozen in Ice. burying the evidence of the city.


Actual Theory: Antartica was once in the Atlantic Ocean near the coast of Africe, it was settled by several tribes which then formed the city of Atlantis. However, some historians question this as, if they were able to get there and start a civ so close to the mainland of Africa then the idea of the pangea doesn't work as Africa and South America fit together. IT is possible it wasa group of islands, that was sunk due to hurricanes and such.

Another Theory: IT is debated that it was located in the Mediterranean. And simply was destroyed by a storm or completely sunk by the ocean.

 

[Kaell]

-Homer had squat to do with the atlantis story.
-Plato wrote down the story after learning about it in egypt
-It was already a long lost civilization in Plato's time.
-It can't be the mediterranean because there simply is not enough room for an island big enough for an ancient to call a continent (which in those days meant as much as a really big landmass)
-stargate the series did not use any actual stories except replace mythical god's with alien's. True though the original movie was based on a thesis by an archaeology student, but the original movie/storyline did not have worm creatures in humans, a 2nd gate in antarctica etc..
-Beyond the pillars of hercules does not mean the atlantic ocean simply because during plato's time the known world was quite smaller and it was not fully know how the earth was shaped beyond the pillars, he might as well have written it's somewhere in uncharted (at the time) territories.
-The indonesia location befits ancient indian vedic texts about a great technological war between 2 great civilizations long, long, long ago aswell, a great war which ultimately led to the destruction of both cultures, which makes it seem to be simply a moralistic tale, but then again what would have happened if russia or the us would have launched a nuke during the cold war with the mutually assured destruction policy? We might be foraging and hiding in caves (nuclear winter) now instead of reading a message board

I suppose noone ever reads all the messages in a thread.. there is exactly one lost landmass on earth which size is big enough for whomever told Plato the story to call it a continent, see the map I posted of earth during the last ice age and look at where the islands of indonesia are now.
The last ice age also props up in controversial new dating of amongst other things the Sphynx, which puts the sphynx as built before the dawn of egyptian civilization. iow it's not egyptian, and the face (old news) is not the original.
But science wouldn't be science if they didn't held to doctrine. If they aren't sure, they tell us hogwash that makes them seem sure... lol In reality, prehistory is a big gap of speculation.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

It has been discovered by the island of Thera, also called Satrinomi(?). It was a Cretan Settlement. It was sunk by a volcano- caused tsunami, which also damaged Crete itself.

 

[Kaell]

Erm, I'm sorry to dissappoint you, But The civilization around Santorini was the Minoan civilization, It's been argued as being atlantis except that Plato likely knew the minoans already, since greeks and egyptians traded with them. Some minoan architecture does fit somewhat with descriptions of atlantis (red stones). But there is a lot missing and just different.
Atlantis got flooded, santorini is a volcano which exploded and obliterated the Minoan civilization, also you won't find the main architectural feature Plato describes there: concentric rings of canals.
Santorini shows up on maps of the time and Plato clearly describes Atlantis as off the charts (beyond the pillars of hercule e.g. outside the mediterranean and in the unknown world (at the time))
(not to mention minoans had their own rich stories among the greeks, especially their bull worship and supposedly having a minotaur in the famous labyrint.)

To boot the atlantis story was about something old and ancient already in Plato's day, the minoans were not.

 

[Aranor]

Erm, I'm sorry to dissappoint you, But The civilization around Santorini was the Minoan civilization, It's been argued as being atlantis except that Plato likely knew the minoans already, since greeks and egyptians traded with them. Some minoan architecture does fit somewhat with descriptions of atlantis (red stones). But there is a lot missing and just different.
Atlantis got flooded, santorini is a volcano which exploded and obliterated the Minoan civilization, also you won't find the main architectural feature Plato describes there: concentric rings of canals.
Santorini shows up on maps of the time and Plato clearly describes Atlantis as off the charts (beyond the pillars of hercule e.g. outside the mediterranean and in the unknown world (at the time))
(not to mention minoans had their own rich stories among the greeks, especially their bull worship and supposedly having a minotaur in the famous labyrint.)

To boot the atlantis story was about something old and ancient already in Plato's day, the minoans were not.

Having just looked at the map you posted (I admit I haven't read the entire thread so I'm sorry if this i miss something that has already been stated) If you are trying to theorise that Atlantis was apart of Indonesia (and by extension Australia as the 2 land masses were joined) then why has no evidence of these places even been found in Australia much less Indonesia. The top end of Australia would be littered with archaeological sites, however aside from significant aboriginal sites their are no real archaeological sites worth noting there. If you want to look in this direction for Atlantis, my suggestion look further south

Aranor

 

[kanoval]

rm, I'm sorry to dissappoint you, But The civilization around Santorini was the Minoan civilization, It's been argued as being atlantis except that Plato likely knew the minoans already, since greeks and egyptians traded with them. Some minoan architecture does fit somewhat with descriptions of atlantis (red stones). But there is a lot missing and just different.
Atlantis got flooded, santorini is a volcano which exploded and obliterated the Minoan civilization, also you won't find the main architectural feature Plato describes there: concentric rings of canals.
Santorini shows up on maps of the time and Plato clearly describes Atlantis as off the charts (beyond the pillars of hercule e.g. outside the mediterranean and in the unknown world (at the time))
(not to mention minoans had their own rich stories among the greeks, especially their bull worship and supposedly having a minotaur in the famous labyrint.)

To boot the atlantis story was about something old and ancient already in Plato's day, the minoans were not.

We don't know what the Minoans called themselves though, who ever discovered the ruins on Crete named the civilization that because of the vast amount of minotaur pictures.

 

[Kaell]

true Kanoval, but what we know about them, texts, traderoutes with other cultures, descriptions of them by contemporary cultures doesn't resemble what Plato described, also they were a known civilization to plato. (not to mention one of the greatest powers and civilizations of it's time) If plato was simply describing them then why didn't he place atlantis at the location he knew the minoans were from, why did he place atlantis in the uncharted world if he meant the minoans who were within the known world. The minoans also werent an ancient tale relative to Plato, Atlantis was already ancient when Plato heard about the lost civilization. The stories/history of the 2 and their place in time is too different and far apart to be the same civilization.

The minoans had a well known empire, up untill the disaster on santorini they were the biggest players in the area, through location dominating trade in the mediteranean, they were known to and traded with the greeks, arabs and egyptians amongst others. Why would plato write a mysterious lost civ tale about a known trading partner?

As for ruins around indonesia.. curiously we've been finding stuff lately on the now submerged parts of indonesia The same goes for india. In recent years we've been finding artifacts and ruins that match with locations in the Vedic texts. Not too long ago they found a lost submerged city in India, which plays a mayor role in the Vedic texts. (not too mention the vitrified sites which science tries to explane away in a real lame fashion, namely one that doesn't work lol, you try and get humus burning hot enough to vitrify walls, good luck lol)
Imho we're only now finding out that our idea of prehistory and human history is very different from what we've thought. The lost city they found alone means a new civilization far older then any we know about to be added to our history books.

If the Vedic texts are history, then I'm not surprised there isn't much left of those civilizations, they existed 15.000 years ago, and supposedly ended their existence in nuclear holocaust (vedic texts)...

Just imagine if russia or the US would have launched one during the cold war with the MAD pact... people in the future wouldn't find much to hint at our existence. I know this all sounds far fetched. But really it doesn't have to be. To say I believe in this.. no, I don't do religion (much) But the latest discoveries are forcing historians to revise their idea's and stop dismissing evidence just to keep the concensis going (bad science imho).
I mean the oldest written document we have ever found talks about airplanes with 2 stories, bombs that obliterate cities and give you symptoms of radiation sickness? they were either able to see the future or we just finally got to a level we already had in the past. Which does happen, we went from writing, science, art, literature, math, astronomy, engineering etc. to again shitting over the walls in the middle ages and being clueless about writing. (cept for clergy and rich folk), so technological and cultural relapse can happen, even without something as bad as a nuclear winter.
And I think time has a part in not finding much.. The age of any ruins out of the vedic texts or plato's atlantis would be far older then anything else.
The civz mentioned in those 2 are from before the egyptians and greeks, before sumerian culture, by right if we can ever prove the existence the crown of being the first civ would have to be redistributed to them.

They are so old their history made it not into any history books but into our myths, legends and religions.

There is evidence of nuclear explosions to be found around the globe, some of which science nicely admits they have no clue as to what caused them even mentioning "the only thing we can think of would be a nuclear bomb, but that can't be", some are tried to be explained by natural causes but those explanations don't fit the evidence entirely. The glass deserts are an example.
They are now explained by asteroid or meteor impact, the glass is near perfect and those would provide the heat necessary to do that to sand. Except impact would also break the newly formed glass but we are finding intact sheets, some are huge in size. It's the same type of glass sheeting you can find in the locations were the US tested their bombs.

But the sweetest evidence to me, are amongst other things is a town of an ancient civ we found during the 1900's near Mohenjo-Daro in India, It's destruction was instant, It had a clear epicenter where buildings were utterly destroyed and the destruction get's less the farther you move away from the epicenter, other evidence found showed that during this flash temperatures soared to ridiculous heights, vitrifying most silicon containing materials and resulting in the telltale green glass sheets and vitrified walls we find in e.g. nevada's test range. In the surrounding area contemporary skeletons have been found and in later years after re-examination showed to be 50 times more radioactive then the norm.
And the city ruins found near Jodhpur, the area is still dangerously radioactive, covered in radioactive ash, one researcher estimates the bomb! (first time in mainstream science) must have dropped around 8000 - 12000 years ago. But date estimates are difficult because of the radioactivity. (which makes me think about all our dating, if there was a nuclear event in the past, none of our dating will be correct.) And another mainstream scientific first: 'Archeologist Francis Taylor says that etchings in some nearby temples he has managed to translate suggest that they prayed to be spared from the great light that was coming to lay ruin to the city. “It’s so mid-boggling to imagine that some civilization had nuclear technology before we did."'
There are a multitude of sites like these, a ot are recent discoveries but some were neglected or overlooked untill recently like the site at Mohenjo-Daro.

Maybe the Vedic texts are just religion dealing with gods and such.. though I can't help to find it odd how much modern technology made it's way into our oldest known literature. (cars, planes, bombs, gods from space that came in ships no less, and so on and so forth..) and how much evidence there is for strange enormous explosions.

Anyway I recommend the texts, it's a good and astonishing read whatever the reality behind it is. (I especially love the 2 storied airplane, the new airbus anyone? )

I also have a toned down version of what I think atlantis was, more 'mainstream' but it's by far not as interesting and thought provoking and since it's regarded as myth mostly anyway, I can feel free
The thing that makes me sad about this all is that no scientist can decently and publicly research this, it would cost him his career to speculate about such a controversial new idea about our history. This means there won't ever be a definitive yes or no. Science is supposed to look at reality and then try and fit that into a coherent story (or in other sciences then find out how it works) but science changed. they are working hard now to make reality fit their idea's (e.g. big bang) like religion tends to do. I don't like that, I'm of the empirical observation old school and there's much not or not adequatly explained.
A real scientist imho would not hush hush the new dating of the Sphynx for example, he would acknowledge it and try to find an explanation. But hey that would mean the egyptians get a culture shock.. well boohoo like lying about it will change the real history whatever that might be.

I hope the recent and controversial, surprising and to some shocking discoveries of the vedic city and other sites in india and indonesia will free the road for scientists to safely speculate about all this again without having their careers suffer for it. I don't care what the end result is. I'm not here to try and make my idea of this history reality. I just want everyone to have an honest chance to speculate and research regarding this part of our history which is mostly a blank to us right now and maybe we'll find another piece of our history and heritage.

Source: Mahabharata, one of the Vedic texts, 6500BC (youngest estimate)
a single projectile Charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame As bright as the thousand suns Rose in all its splendour… a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds… …the cloud of smoke rising after its first explosion formed into expanding round circles like the opening of giant parasols…
..it was an unknown weapon, An iron thunderbolt, A gigantic messenger of death, Which reduced to ashes The entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas. …The corpses were so burned As to be unrecognisable. The hair and nails fell out; Pottery broke without apparent cause, And the birds turned white.
After a few hours All foodstuffs were infected… …to escape from this fire The soldiers threw themselves in streams To wash themselves and their equipment.

 

[ibcoltscrew]

Does anyone no where Atlantis was, someone said it was an Egyptian city, someone said it was near the artic and someone said it was in the Aegean and I always thought it was close to the Caribbean? Anyone know?

IMO... Atlantis is in Artic ... there is a description in the old book talking about a Big Arc (half Circle) in the center of the Town (not and Arc like Star Gate BTW) and if you look on the world map (google maps) you can clearly see it ... Atlantis is related to South America or Cuba but IMO this is very easy to find it in the Arctic...

It's my opinion, you can debate it or not, i will not give any answer, Atlantis is probably only a legend but its fun to beleive it..

BTW, there is a Island in the Atlantic Ocean called Atlantis with an Hotel Atlantis, a Atlantis Beach and almost everything is dedicated to Atlantis ... maybe Atlantis is not a Legend but a Prophecy ... think about it too.

 

[astrognash]

Atlantis Beach is not a country, and I doubt the world will be taken over by a hotel.

 

[troytheface]

Atlantis is under ice during one of three polar shifts.
Its people fought the dinosaurs -created by god's projected self in order that he and god could conduct war games civ like . that is why the projection is often depicted as a serpent (reptile) in myth. But people won so the projection got mad and created viruses -this time going for stealth instead of scales and teeth and giganticism.
someone got mad and tilted the board (polar shift)
Man got to automatic rifles faster.

 

[god of crows45]

All I can say about the amazing indian texts. they either had the technology, remembered having it at some time or they could really look into the future. one of the vedas texts refers to a 2 storied flying machine with lot's of windows..!? btw have you seen the new airbus already? lol

Really if you want a dramatically interesting read, read the various Vedas which are ancient.. and compare it to what you see around you now.
The way it's written sounds like an ancient person ported to the 21st century and trying to describe what he sees.

can anyone get me a link as to where i can read the vedas?

btw, Atlantis, Lemuria, El Dorado, and all those sort of places are explained as root races by a lady named Madame Blavatsky. Another interesting topic is the crystal skulls. They are physically impossible to recreate and are said to contain magical properties.

 

[CivLuvah]

Well, acually what Plato said that its located near the Pillars of Hercules which is the Strait of Gibraltar so probably the Azores & the Canary islands were once one large landmass. also, who in their right mind would think that the location of atlantis is in a lake in the Dominican Republic??????