on the placement of the next city. i think this is what the fat cross would look like. i am at work and civ not installed so i think this would be how the grid lines fell. C=City G=Gold S=Stone B=Bismark X=inside fat cross ..______BB _XXX__BBB GXXXXBBC XXCSXBBB GXXXX_BB _XXX that said, would the best city site be the spot to the left of the stone? we would have both gold, the stone, 2 additional hills, a lot of river, and no overlap? i don't mind overlap, but wasn't the capital a great place for a later GP farm and this new city a great site for a production city? i agree on all the objectives.