Honorable Victory SG

[lymond]

I pretty much agree with everything, but I don't think we can rely on GP in Eridu, as I figured we'd run scientists there as soon as library is done for fast GP.

Hunting okay then, I guess the extra happiness IS good, especially for Uruk which needs to grow onto more mines. Make sure chop goes into AP.

ha..we don't ever have to finish that Library in Uruk. Can't remember if I started it or it was started earlier. Gotta keep our minds on victory.

If you are sure priest can bulb CoL, then ok maybe Hunt>Med. Still should run scientists in Eridu. Chance we don't get GP, but our research should be good. Not too bad either way. If no GP we go onto something else...there's always a Pac bulb.

don't have game open so I forget which cities which. The new city absolutely needs a monument and we should put a religion in that city, as it will have issues with Willie culture (hopefully we pop before is 2nd pop) Worker in size 1 city with no solid improvements is not general a good idea. We aren't desperate for them either.

If Kish is the clam city then settler okay, but I'd wait til size 4 if it's not there yet. We can suspend cancel Gran though. Might want another chariot to help with barbs in short term. Barbs should not be a problem in a while, but with Vicky's TGW there is a chance we get some sneaking through. Should not be off-guard.

Starvation - I don't know. I assumed we can't starve a city down. We'll just have to manage growth and keep tabs we don't grow into unhappiness.

 

[Cam_H]

lymond - Many thanks for the prompt reply!

I'm starting to think whichever pathway we take, we'll end up more or less at the same spot at the same time with everything coinciding in around 20-25 turns.

Personally I'm still leaning to a pure pool in Eridu and bulbing Code of Laws with the Great Prophet, then use Caste to get our next Great Person out quicker for Golden Age-fueled Missionary production if required.

With that said, I've got no objection to running Scientists in Eridu when the Library's done and self-researching CoL with a Golden Age coming in a bit earlier to both speed research and bolster the last of the Apostolic Palace's production.

Hunting still being the tech' to do right now.

Still happy to receive input from the roster.

Roster:

DrZomboss << On Deck
pigswill
lymond
Cam << Up
Folket (Skip until mid-Feb)
<Open>
<Open>
<Open>​

 

[lymond]

What's the timing on the GP in Eridu?

 

[Cam_H]

My quick calc's:

From Oracle points alone: Anarchy time + 24 turns

Build temple and run Priest: Anarchy time + 6 turns for the Temple + 8 turns with Priest.

Finish library and run Scientists: Anarchy time + 4 turns for the Library + 5 turns with two Scientists.

 

[lymond]

IMO that is too long and I'd not considered a temple in Eridu. it needs to start producing mishes right after the library. I say run the scientists and we'll go with your tech path avoid CoL for now and see how it goes.

 

[Cam_H]

lymond,

Sorry, a bit of 'Confucianism' is going on over here, but one point of clarification ... you've suggested that Eridu needs to be producing Missionaries (plural) after the Library ... aside from Lagash (our Bananas-Gems inland city), where else do we want to actively spread Christianity? I don't see much value in getting it into in Kish (if we're not that interested in Fishing and building a Work Boat and therefore don't really need a border pop), and I assume that there's little benefit in spreading it to the AI if the Apostolic Palace religion is to be Confucianism.

I'm intending to play soon since I think there's been a good opportunity for comment and contribution.

 

[lymond]

don't wan't you to be confucianed. hmmm...yeah...bit of conflicting thoughts in my post...the Conf idea hadn't fully sunk in with respect to AP. Problem, ofc, is that it slows AP spread a bit as we have to wait for it. Then again, AP is gonna take a long time to build.

With Conf as AP religion target, I'd actually spread Xtian asap to every one of our cities. This may be nice in maybe lucking out on Conf holy city being in one of Uruk or Eridu (then use free mish to spread to one or the other, so we can finish AP in Uruk as (edit) Conf and build Conf mishes in Eridu). In the mean time, all cities benefit from culture and OR while in Xtian.

(we don't have to switch to Conf until the last turn of AP build, if that benefits us more, by the way)

If Eridu has free time after Xtian mishes and before Conf mish pumpage, then it can build whatever it wants....maybe even a settler.

Hopefully we will get fishing and Sailing someday soon via trade. After CoL, it doesn't really matter what we tech, although Metal Casting would be nice.

Oh..gosh..forgot as well, we want as many AIs in Xtian as possible. Idea is that we only stay in Conf short term to build AP..only 5 turns..then back to Xtian or no religion, if that is better for diplo purposes. So obviously, we should try to get as many Ais in Xtian as possible so we can keep it and get extra diplo boost.

So I'd start sending Xtian mishes to the AIs...let it auto-spread to our cities for now.

I would assume Willie would get an auto-spread here soon. Usually there a few quick spreads along trade routes after initial founding. We should try to infect SB and Vicky asap.

 

[Cam_H]

Opening:

Anarchy!
Technology: > Hunting

Turn 1:

Anarchy!
Chariot heads north toward England. Workers&#8217; movements during the turnset involve; setting up Ivory Camp, converting a forested Hill into a Mine near Uruk, and chopping around Uruk.

Turn 2:

Christianity adopted. Organised Religion adopted.

Uruk: Apostolic Palace
Eridu: Library (continue)
Kish: Settler
Lagash: Monument (continue)​

Technology up to 50%

Turn 3:

Worker actions.

Turn 4:

Eridu completes Library and adopts two Scientists.
Technology up to 70%

Eridu: Library > Christian Missionary​

Turn 5:

Hunting > Meditation
Technology down to 50%

Turn 6:

Victoria acquires Alphabet. Not a lot on the trading table, but we complete this trade;

Kish: Settler (suspend) > Work Boat​

Our Chariot unfortunately runs into a bit of a dead-end, and veers east given that north looks pretty barren. We&#8217;ve discovered the three English cities.
Eridu steals back a tile from the vile Dutch.
Christianity autospreads to Lagash!

Turn 7:

Eridu: Christian Missionary > Christian Missionary​

Kish border pop.
Victoria is not prepared to trade either Iron Working or Alphabet.
Science back up to 80%

Turn 8:

Meditation > Code of Laws
Science down to 0%
Ivory up and running. Great happiness abounds through the land from systematically killing off Elephants for their tusks. Our people are obviously complete bastards.
Eridu steals yet another tile back off Willem the Vile.
I'm pretty tempted by this possibility &#8211; but should discuss with roster, so we pass (for now - it's still an option);



Turn 9:

Hello Mencius!

Lagash: Monument > Christian Missionary​

Kish: Missionary spreads Christianity.

I&#8217;ll close this turnset here, but generally things went pretty well according to plan.

Roster:

DrZomboss << Up
pigswill << On Deck
lymond
Cam
Folket (Skip until mid-Feb)
<Open>
<Open>
<Open>​

So, bulb Code of Laws, consider the merits of the Caste System in light of proposed future Golden Age, spread Confucianism within our empire and agree on a fool-proof effective strategy of spreading religion into foreign nations. Easy!

 

[lymond]

Looks Great! Good call on the GP!

Only issue is Xtian hasn't spread to Senor Willie yet. Was hoping for auto spread or sending one of ours to him asap.

I might wait to burn GP until we send that Eridu mish to Utrecht. Or we just burn it now and see how it spreads in the next few turns. We may just end up going with Xtian as AP and spread Confused to everyone if Willie gets it. We can send new mish in Eridu through his lands for now toward his cap and maybe on to SB depending on what happens.

We will still need to spread whatever AP religion to Willie, but that is no issue. Still may auto spread anyway. Key is that a larger city gets the religion we want him to adopt, i.e., not the AP religion.

I would give Uruk the nanners for the mine near Kish and give that to Kish, plus 2 forests, speeds up WB. AP is doing fine for production in Uruk ,especially since we haven't even meet all the AIs. ideally we don't even finish AP until we get the religions worked out and spread or near spread, so plenty of time now to finish.

Another cheese thing to do is have a settler or two ready to settle close by/infect in case the far AIs don't have more then 3 cities. In that case you can gift them cities anywhere in the world. Saves all that movement of mishes across the world

You preset the AIs, no?

I'm more interested in Vicky's Alpha than IW right now. We might be able to get it with a turn or two more invested. We need to start gifting techs for diplo. Ofc, we will get IW with alpha anyway.

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks lymond.

Odds were about 60% Great Scientist / 40% Great Prophet - not a wildly improbable fluke, but still, we got lucky.

I see what you're saying with the Apostolic Palace's religion still in doubt.

I was really not too sure what to do about getting Alphabet or that Iron Working deal - I'm happy with the approach of investing a couple of turns into Alphabet to lower the price from Victoria, and agree getting Iron Working from elsewhere should be the go.

I think the Caste System does give us a bit of flexibility if we're looking to run two Golden Ages before the game's up. I guess that if we were to go into the Caste System sooner rather than later, that Kish when it gets the Work Boat done could possibly start running specialists for a Great Person for a second Golden Age if we were interested in that. Eridu could pop its next in 13 turns ... maybe wait for that Golden Age before adopting the Caste System?

The AI personalities are random, but I picked the leaders and their nations (so Joao II will be leading the Portuguese, Isabella the Spanish, and a French leader will be leading France).

I was not aware about 'that thing' with AIs having 3 or less cities! Great! We should use it!

 

[lymond]

Golden age would be nice but not really critical for anything other than no anarchy civic switches. Settlers would be important

Joao will probably have 4 cities. Maybe hope with Iz or Nap. Iz is outta the picture for diplo, but we may get everyone else, although Nap is hard to please. Joao likes his gifts and usually asks or demand something quite quickly, so chance to boost him up nice. Plus, getting our hands on Monarchy for HR with him is good. In fact, if we can get Alpha in a coupla turns then we can start investing small hammers for HR or tech it outright if no one has it.

Problem is we need some votes and right now diplo options have not been good..no resource trades of yet.

 

[Cam_H]

Random personalities - we don't know who we're 'really' dealing with.

No Great Generals have popped in the game, so we might be clear of Shaka, Montezuma, or Alexander.

 

[pigswill]

Been a bit tied up with sgotm so havent been following this one very closely. Bulbing CoL for Confu sounds obvious move. Maybe a few turns into alphabet and hope to pick it up in trade.

edit: use free conmiss to convert Willem.

 

[lymond]

Pigs - the idea is to get to get willie to adopt Xtian. Conf is the AP religion. We want him in another religion first as it is easier to control the voting. We will adopt Conf temporarily to finish AP, then switch to Xtian or no religion depending on what is best. (Ideally are first couple of Xtian mishes should have gone to AIs - I was hoping auto-spread to Will, and infect Vicky and SB)

We could go Xtian AP and spread Conf to will now, but then depending on what the Conf holy city is we may have poor mish production if not Eridu or Uruk. We have to start building those guys asap and then would have to spread to a higher production city first as well. Bit of a gamble

 

[Cam_H]

no resource trades of yet.

For what it's worth, if we connect our second Corn we could gift it to the Apache, or better yet trade it for Clams for on-trading Clams elsewhere.

My 'gut feel' also is to spread Christianity to other civ's and use Confucianism as our AP Victory religion. If we are going to spend most of our time in one religion we may as well leverage the religion that is now fully spread within our empire. It's probably do-able to win the game within one Golden Age, but I think that we should shoot for two, with two Great People out of Eridu and one out of Kish to be manipulated under the Caste System.

I've just wiki-ed 'Mencius' ... weirdly coincidental?

 

[Cam_H]

We might give DrZomboss another 24 hours or so to appear, but pigswill, you might have to prepare yourself for the next turnset.

 

[pigswill]

That's ok, I'm in no great hurry. Been a bit preoccupied with sgotm for the past few days (and we're still only on T30 )

 

[DrZomboss]

We might give DrZomboss another 24 hours or so to appear, but pigswill, you might have to prepare yourself for the next turnset.

I'm sorry, I will not be able to continue the game for now, I have been very busy. I can stay as spectator though

 

[pigswill]

I'm UP .

Had a quick look. First thought: trade PH+something to Vicky for ?iron-working(mine them gems) ?sailing (coastal trade routes spread the faith). Bulb CoL for confusion.
Next turn trade CoL to Vickers for alphabet. Backfill.

That's also my last thought for now.

 

[Cam_H]

Hey pigs,

I think what you're suggesting is fine. I'm about '1%' concerned about allowing the A.I. to get closer to Theology in case they choose to adopt Theocracy and stop non-State Religion spread, but with Christianity already gone and a bunch of A.I.s who on the face of it have little concern for religion (Buddhist, Hindu, and Judaism spread so poor currently) I think that I might be 'jumping at shadows' on that one in that it's highly unlikely that the A.I.s going into Theocracy will cause us problems. Added to that, lymond's tip about A.I.s with three-or-fewer cities accepting any old junk city might present itself as an 'escape clause' in case it does become a problem seeing the ones that we have met have all stopped expanding at three cities.

I don't have any huge issue with trading away Code of Laws for Alphabet, but Code of Laws is a monopoly tech, and if we self-research Alphabet for a few turns we could get it for those three religious tech's we have and still keep our CoL monopoly, picking up Iron Working, Sailing, etc. from elsewhere.

I take on lymond's other point about The Apostolic Palace being built too quickly (sooner than we need), and the Workers I have lined up for chops could direct the hammers into Missionary production, or possibly even Settler production if we're thinking about gifting infected junk cities, given the urgency of getting the religious spread fixed up first. Still, would be good to get it to one-turn short of full production at some stage.

Just a small repeated point, if we road the second Corn, I think that it's trade-able. It's a low priority, and the Apache are the only tribe that will trade it, and that would be for Clams which we're about to get with the Work Boat - but maybe one of the 'hidden' A.I.s mightn't have either Corn or Clam. Workers are some distance from that second Corn, but if you're stuck for something to do with them ...