Hopes for the first Civ6 Expansion

[Aussie_Lurker]

Hi everyone. I just wanted to start this post by saying that Civ6 Vanilla feels, to me, like the most *complete* vanilla version of the game I've played thus far. That's not to say that there isn't more that could be added to improve the game in future expansions....so I am hoping this thread might kick-start some intriguing discussions. Regardless, this is what I am hoping for in terms of the first expansion:

Resources: This is one part of the game that I feel has gone slightly *backwards* since Civilization V. There is a lot they could do to flesh out Strategic, Luxury & Bonus resources. In particular, I'd like to see a system that would incentivise Empires to seek out either multiple copies of the same resource-and/or maximum resource diversity-via both expansion & trade.

Strategic: A return to the CiV strategic resource system, with varying sizes of each resource, would be best (encampments could still be beneficial in allowing players to build more units with smaller amounts of a resource-but I'd also like to see all the strategic resources play a much bigger part in the broader economy of an empire-beyond the bonus to the tile its on-most especially within City Centers, Industrial Zones & possibly even Entertainment Zones & Commercial Hubs. This could be especially true in regards to energy generating buildings & tile improvements. For instance, having multiple copies of Iron, Coal, Oil and/or Nitre could all give increasing benefits to Industrial Zones across the empire.....but they could have a further negative impact on the appeal of said Industrial Zones.

Luxury: I'd like to see multiple copies of the same luxury have a semi-additive effect on Amenities-either in terms of total amenity bonus, or the number of cities the amenity gives a bonus to-possibly based on empire size. So 2 sources of domestic silk could grant +2 Amenities to 3 cities, but also could grant +1 Amenity to 6 cities. Overseas sources of the same luxury might grant a mild bonus greater than an entirely domestic supply, & having a diverse supply of luxuries-Domestic and/or foreign-would grant the biggest amenity bonus. Such a system might help further drive trade deals between Empires....even if an empire already has a domestic supply of the luxury in question.

Bonus: I'd love to see these become resources that you can trade and-like Strategic or Luxury resources-I'd like to see multiple copies of the same resources *and* resource diversity granting different kinds of empire-wide economic bonuses. For example, multiple sources of stone could boost production across all your cities, but having both copper and stone within your empire could grant an entirely different, but still useful, bonus. Again, the idea being to boost the amount of trade going on between empires.

One other thing I'd like to see, in relation to resources, is that working tiles containing certain resources could help generate Great Person Points. For example, working a spice plantation might grant +1 Great Merchant Points, whereas a Gold Mine might produce +0.5 Great Merchant & +0.5 Great Engineer points, as an example.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Scientific Victory: As much as I already enjoy the Scientific Victory, it could still do with a little more fleshing out. Just little things like specific videos for each achievement (satellite, moon landing), as well as some more steps along the way-like putting a person into orbit and building a space station. It would be nice if there were things you could build to further improve the Space Port District, as well as extra techs & civics to help along the Scientific Victory.

Diplomacy & Spies: First up, it'd be great if we could use spies to both aggressively & passively change City-State Allegiances, as well as having government type & social policy choices (beyond the Diplomatic ones) effecting how easy or hard it is to sway City-States over to your side (for example, Amsterdam might be more likely to align itself to a major Civ who has the Merchant Republic Government and/or Social Policies that emphasize commerce over other activities) . It would also be nice if we could use diplomacy to encourage major Civs to change governments or Social Policies. Options for multilateral diplomacy-& a diplomatic victory-would also be a great addition to the game.

Great People: As I implied above, some Great People come extremely late in the game-relatively speaking. This is especially true of Great Engineers....but can also be said of even Great Artists, Writers & Musicians. Thus it would be nice to have a few extra means of building up these kinds GP points from earlier in the game......whether through working improvements, City Center Buildings and/or Tech Choices. The individual points gained via these methods should always be inferior to the points you can get via the districts, however....& would necessitate a much greater number of Great People available in the game IMHO.

Religion: As superior to Civ4 Religion, and even CiV Religion, Civ6 clearly is, there are still things I feel could be brought over from those two games into this one. One is the ability to *choose* a State Religion (or no State Religion) & having that choice impact on domestic stability and your diplomatic relations. Another is the Civ4 Religious Civics (Social Policies)-like Free Religion and Organized Religion-that could be added to the existing list of Religious Social Policies to help further differentiate your religious practices from those of other empires. It would also be good to have more passive-& aggressive-means of preventing foreign missionaries having free reign within your borders....but at a potential diplomatic & domestic stability cost.

Civics & Social Policies: Definitely more Civics & more social policies to go with them would be a huge plus....but I think it would also be great to have 2 or 3 more new classes for Social Policies-specifically for Labour, Legal & maybe even Religious Policies (the last as per my thoughts above on religion). To help players further flesh out their governments. Most of the governments would have-at most-a single slot for each type of policy. In rare cases a government might have 2 of the new kinds of slots (like Theocracy & Religious Policies) but at the cost of an existing slot. As another thread mentioned, & I agree, it might be nice to see some government types prohibit certain social policies, whilst enhancing the face value of certain other social policies.

Buildings & Tile Improvements: Although much better than most vanilla versions of Civ, I do still find myself starting to run out of things to build-most especially towards the end of the game. With that in mind, I'd like to see more buildings & possibly even tile improvements for the Industrial to Future Ages of the game. In particular, I'd like to see Buildings that improve Neighbourhoods & City Centers (like Hospitals, High Rise Apartments, Courthouses, Gaols, Police Stations, Mass Transit, Public Parks, Freeways....to name just a few). Things which could improve the Housing, Amenity or Appeal of the tile the building is in, but with other potential bonuses as well (like Gaols, Courthouses & Police Stations might each reduce the maintenance cost of the entire city.....whereas public parks might increase the culture or commerce produced by that tile). Lastly, am I the only person who thinks Cultural Zones need an extra building between the Museum & the Broadcast Center-like an Opera House & Music Theater?

Anyway, that's my list of hopes for an expansion. If anyone has others I'd love to hear them.

Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Erzherzog]

What I hope is that the Firaxis will (and they always have, so my hopes are backed by experience) expand, develop and round up the concepts in the future expansions. The truth is I never played a Vanilla Civ till now, so that explains my initial shock with the state the Civ 6 was released in. But it's a good game, it has much potential. And what Firaxis doesn't do, the community surely will.

 

[Manifold]

Bug fixes and Railways, new era between Renaissance and Industrial Age

 

[Uberfrog]

Scientific Victory: As much as I already enjoy the Scientific Victory, it could still do with a little more fleshing out. Just little things like specific videos for each achievement (satellite, moon landing), as well as some more steps along the way-like putting a person into orbit and building a space station. It would be nice if there were things you could build to further improve the Space Port District, as well as extra techs & civics to help along the Scientific Victory.

I like the idea of little videos of the satellite and the moon landing, but I'm glad they included rockets launching for each stage this time. It was something Civ V really lacked. It would also be nice too see little in-engine videos of nuclear tests for the Manhattan Project and Operation Ivy, but that's besides the point.

I'm not sure adding extra steps to the Science Victory is necessary - it already seems like a long slog of production to get all the requisite spaceship parts into orbit. I don't have any particular ideas to improve this victory, but more things to produce don't seem the way to me.

Diplomacy & Spies: First up, it'd be great if we could use spies to both aggressively & passively change City-State Allegiances, as well as having government type & social policy choices (beyond the Diplomatic ones) effecting how easy or hard it is to sway City-States over to your side (for example, Amsterdam might be more likely to align itself to a major Civ who has the Merchant Republic Government and/or Social Policies that emphasize commerce over other activities) . It would also be nice if we could use diplomacy to encourage major Civs to change governments or Social Policies. Options for multilateral diplomacy-& a diplomatic victory-would also be a great addition to the game.

More dynamic espionage and diplomacy are very likely to be on the cards - I think Ed hinted at it in his recent Rock Paper Shotgun interview. Some battle of the Ideologies a la Brave New World would be a welcome addition to the late game. Diplomatic Victory might well return as well, but they need to think very carefully about how to make it engaging.

Great People: As I implied above, some Great People come extremely late in the game-relatively speaking. This is especially true of Great Engineers....but can also be said of even Great Artists, Writers & Musicians. Thus it would be nice to have a few extra means of building up these kinds GP points from earlier in the game......whether through working improvements, City Center Buildings and/or Tech Choices. The individual points gained via these methods should always be inferior to the points you can get via the districts, however....& would necessitate a much greater number of Great People available in the game IMHO.

Fully agreed, and they really need to add more of them, and remove the current system of locking you out of earlier GP just because some AI has progressed to a future era. It's very easy to be left in the dust with Great People in Civ VI, or to be left with those that won't be relevant for two more eras.

Religion: As superior to Civ4 Religion, and even CiV Religion, Civ6 clearly is, there are still things I feel could be brought over from those two games into this one. One is the ability to *choose* a State Religion (or no State Religion) & having that choice impact on domestic stability and your diplomatic relations. Another is the Civ4 Religious Civics (Social Policies)-like Free Religion and Organized Religion-that could be added to the existing list of Religious Social Policies to help further differentiate your religious practices from those of other empires. It would also be good to have more passive-& aggressive-means of preventing foreign missionaries having free reign within your borders....but at a potential diplomatic & domestic stability cost.

Civics & Social Policies: Definitely more Civics & more social policies to go with them would be a huge plus....but I think it would also be great to have 2 or 3 more new classes for Social Policies-specifically for Labour, Legal & maybe even Religious Policies (the last as per my thoughts above on religion). To help players further flesh out their governments. Most of the governments would have-at most-a single slot for each type of policy. In rare cases a government might have 2 of the new kinds of slots (like Theocracy & Religious Policies) but at the cost of an existing slot. As another thread mentioned, & I agree, it might be nice to see some government types prohibit certain social policies, whilst enhancing the face value of certain other social policies.

I think State Religion is a really good idea and I think provides some much needed clarity with how the current religion system works, particularly with converts (i.e. those who don't found their own religion). For example, if I take the policy that gives me a combat bonus against civs who follow another religion, what exactly does that mean, when I can have cities following any number of different religions in my empire. Religious policy slots in your government would also provide a way to counter religious spread beyond the current units on the map.

Buildings & Tile Improvements: Although much better than most vanilla versions of Civ, I do still find myself starting to run out of things to build-most especially towards the end of the game. With that in mind, I'd like to see more buildings & possibly even tile improvements for the Industrial to Future Ages of the game. In particular, I'd like to see Buildings that improve Neighbourhoods & City Centers (like Hospitals, High Rise Apartments, Courthouses, Gaols, Police Stations, Mass Transit, Public Parks, Freeways....to name just a few). Things which could improve the Housing, Amenity or Appeal of the tile the building is in, but with other potential bonuses as well (like Gaols, Courthouses & Police Stations might each reduce the maintenance cost of the entire city.....whereas public parks might increase the culture or commerce produced by that tile). Lastly, am I the only person who thinks Cultural Zones need an extra building between the Museum & the Broadcast Center-like an Opera House & Music Theater?

More things to build would be welcome, and I am in complete agreement about Theatre Squares. The current availability of slots for great works, especially Music and Writing, seems off to me.

I posted some ideas in the Expansion Anticipation Thread in the main forum, which I'll quote here. We were thinking along similar lines in a lot of cases. But I'm a huge fun of adding a dedicated Enlightenment Era. I'd also like an expansion to be a bit more interesting and novel than simply expanding the Diplomatic and Espionage systems that already exist. Expansions should add completely new elements to a game, so long as they fill gaps in gameplay depth and add more interesting decisions. This is what BtS, G&K and BNW did, and they are each excellent expansions. My top pick for an exciting addition would be something to do with Colonisation.

From the other thread:

Three areas of the basic game I'd like to see expanded are:

1) Padding out the tech tree with a new Era, the Enlightenment Era, between Renaissance and Industrial. There was a mod for Civ V that did this, and it seems like a no-brainer addition to the series now, just as Atomic and Information eras were for BNW. The current leap straight from Muskets to Infantry, Classical Horsemen to Cavalry, Quadrireme to Frigate, etc, is nuts. The tech pacing is already off and an extra era in the midgame would help this. It would allow a shift in focus for the Renaissance (which currently straddles the late medieval and early modern) and also bring to life the era of colonialism, Napoleon, and the beginnings of the Industrial Revolution.

2) Expanding the Religious game. There are the bones of a good and dynamic system here, but neither G&K nor Civ VI vanilla have perfected it, and of course missionary spam is not a very fun thing to have to counter. I'd like to see a State Religion feature implemented (as in Civ IV). Of course, your cities are still converted on a follower-by-follower basis, but choosing a State Religion allows you to modify the pressure you exert and experience using the new Religious Policy slot in your government (1 slot for every Tier 1 government, 2 for Monarchy and Theocracy, 2 for every tier 3 government). An extra slot for a wonder (St Peter's Basilica?). Example policies might be "Blasphemy Laws" - less pressure exerted from non-state religions, "Grand Inquisitor" - foreign missionaries experience attrition within your borders, "Feast Days" - +amenities in cities following your state religion, "Tolerance"- +culture from every non-state religion in your cities. In addition, religious units go on their own layer. Because obviously.

3) Countering excessive spread. I'm not advocating a return to Civ V's 4 Tall Cities. But at the moment, more cities = more power in a way that isn't really a problem at any stage. This is particularly bad for promoting the conquest route as the most logical option to pursue, whatever victory you want. Why build when you can take? Especially when there are no real penalties (except Diplomatic ones) once the war is over. I think a potential solution is based around Amenities for cities that have been recently conquered or are on different continents (provided they are a minimum distance from the capital). Revolts in these cities should be much more likely, and you should need to counter such threats with Courthouses and Constabularies. A little more off-the-wall would be some sort of citizen Ethnicity (again as in Civ IV) - conquered cities obviously start as a foreign majority, and these citizens experience more dissatisfaction and war weariness. This could also tie in with a more dynamic Culture system, as having strong Tourism towards another civ affects the Ethnic makeup of their cities in a way you can manipulate. OK this has maybe turned out less of a basic idea , but I think it would be a good way both to counter the dominance of just simply conquering everything (unless the conqueror manages it properly), and gives a use for Tourism outside of the Culture Victory.

Shiny new features I'd like to see added are:

1) Colonies. This is a big part of history as it shaped the modern world (and ties in nicely with an Enlightenment era ). Starting from the Renaissance era, in addition to Settlers you can build Colonists, who can build cities on other continents. Colonies have less of an amenity burden than regular cities on other continents would (see point 3 above), but produce less science and culture. My idea is for colonies to be a good way of grabbing land and resources on other continents, and they would have higher internal trade gold yields to compensate their lack of science and culture output. Colonies can be upgraded to full-blown Cities if you can handle the amenity cost. There's potential for an independence mechanic, which I don't have nay strong ideas for yet, where they become Mercantile City States in the late game. For the late game, another idea is a Research Expedition unit that founds mini-colonies (think Antarctica) to grab those absurd resources in the icy poles.

2) Corporations. This seems a popular idea in this thread and I agree. Civ IV BTS introduced these as a good way to make Bonus Resources, obsolete Strategic Resources and multiple copies of Luxury Resources relevant in the late game.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Definitely love all your ideas too, Uberfrog. At the very least I think they need to adjust the current tech/civic rate. As they seem to be paced with the assumption of no Eureka or Inspiration moments taking place.