Horse Archers = Praetorian??

[SickCycle]

This was a messy post so I decided to make it cleaner

With a Stable & Barracks Horse Archers come out with two free promotions.

If you upgraded a Horse Archer with Combat I and Shock right out of the gate thats a +35% to melee units, that puts there strength at around 7.98 that is almost as powerful as there counter or even a Praetorian. In addition they have had there -10% taken off and they gained the flanking ability while attacking catapults, I've seen this in action it can be devastating, I've had a single knight killing entire groups of catapults from the splash, don't forget about the abilities to get a 50% withdrawl rate or sentry for fog-busting.

I think all and all this is a much better unit now.

 

[tempuraki]

well, the melee units will also have their promotion from the barracks, so that's 8.8 for praetorians and 8.4 for spears. You also have to take into account that melee units gets defensive bonus, so you will need a bit more promotion to offset that.

 

[DaveMcW]

Keshik = Praetorian.

 

[petey]

Keshik and Horse Archers can be countered by Spearmen. If you have some spears march with your Praets, you can defend against any mounted attack and deal with any of them that you meet out in the field.

Praets with City Raider promotions have no counter, though.

 

[frob2900]

Praets with City Raider promotions have no counter, though.

Shock axemen?

 

[r_rolo1]

Keshik and Horse Archers can be countered by Spearmen. If you have some spears march with your Praets, you can defend against any mounted attack and deal with any of them that you meet out in the field.

If you let the enemy have spears, you deserve to see your mounted units being crushed... The key strat with mounted units is to use their speed to pillage/cut acess to metals ( to prevent spears ) and then pillage to death or take down cities by sheer army weight. The all Kekshik vs Preat thing will almost never happen in real game ( just because most surely the Preat player most likely will be able to build spears ( even the AI builds spears when attacked by mounted units.... ))

 

[SickCycle]

I just tried a few games playing Byzantine and I have to say.. I got smoked using Horse Archers as a main force

Sounded good though.. Thanks for the replies, I was kinda wondering why they are considered a weak branch of the tech tree. They did alright but when it came down to all the different roles I was trying to fill it just didn't cut it compared to the mixed stacks the AI was throwing at me.

I didn't really want to use them but every game I start up with Byzantine they give me horses and nothing else, was wondering why people really didn't use them much once I started comparing numbers, but I found out the hard way

Prats def won.. heh

 

[axident]

I just tried a few games playing Byzantine and I have to say.. I got smoked using Horse Archers as a main force

Sounded good though.. Thanks for the replies, I was kinda wondering why they are considered a weak branch of the tech tree. They did alright but when it came down to all the different roles I was trying to fill it just didn't cut it compared to the mixed stacks the AI was throwing at me.

I didn't really want to use them but every game I start up with Byzantine they give me horses and nothing else, was wondering why people really didn't use them much once I started comparing numbers, but I found out the hard way

Prats def won.. heh

Byzantines = Cataphract rush. Forget the other stuff except some city garrisons and catapults. Spam cataphracts. As long as your enemy doesn't have too many promoted pikemen around, you can crush them. Disconnect their metals ASAP. Bring catapults for the tough cities.

 

[Quornix]

Keshik and Horse Archers can be countered by Spearmen. If you have some spears march with your Praets, you can defend against any mounted attack and deal with any of them that you meet out in the field.

Praets with City Raider promotions have no counter, though.

If you have some spears march with your Praets, you're an idiot. Spearmen are 4 + 100% = 8. Praets are 8. I suppose that spears are cheaper, but they are no more effective. Praets are about the only UU that make any other unit of its era obsolete (well, except for catapults).

And Shock Praets eat Shock Axes, no problem.

 

[kniteowl]

Numidian Cavalry can Counter Prats, although Horse Archers requires more techs then Swordsmen and they also require barracks & stables to be built for 2 promotions in the early game before civics.

While Prats only require a barracks in the early game to maximise XP.

Combat 1 + Shock Numidian Cavalry vs Unpromoted Prat.

Numidian Cavalry attacking Prat.

5.5 str vs (8/1+0.75) = 4.75 str

Numidian Cavalry defending vs Prat.

(5.5*(1.75)) 9.63 str vs 8 str.

Countering Prats depends on Traits, UU and Circumstances. IF you have an Early UU, Rush the Romans before they reach IW.

If you're Ind or Phil It might be a good idea to Oracle SS to MC and Assign an Engineer to bulb.

If you have Ivory It might be a good idea to Beeline to Construction and HBR.

If you're Aggressive then find metal, you're only 1 promotion away from shock Axemen who should be relatively good counters in the short term.

If you don't have the following above, you may have to beeline to IW and check where the Iron resources are and deny the romans Access to them.

 

[petey]

If you have some spears march with your Praets, you're an idiot. Spearmen are 4 + 100% = 8. Praets are 8. I suppose that spears are cheaper, but they are no more effective. Praets are about the only UU that make any other unit of its era obsolete (well, except for catapults).

And Shock Praets eat Shock Axes, no problem.

It's true that Spears are the same against mounted as Praets, but why would you want to use your expensive Praets to attack horses? Spam some cheap units to hold off the counter-attackers and give all the Praets City Raider promotions to deal with the main targets of the invasion. Much more efficient.

 

[AlessioCerci]

Praets with City Raider promotions have no counter, though.

What about the dreadnought tank from next war?

 

[Innawerkz]

Rome can get to Iron Working before any other Civ can get to Horse Back Riding.

 

[CivDude86]

But then your paying maintence on a spearman that only good for one thing instead of praet that can do anything.

 

[Bjorn190]

preatorians are nice, but there is a counter and its called AGG axes

 

[axident]

preatorians are nice, but there is a counter and its called AGG axes

My medical chariots that tag along with all my stacks can quickly take the AGG out of those axes, if shock Praets don't first.

 

[BARBEERIAN]

a handful of Cats and a bunch of shock Horse Archers will easily dispatch a stack of Praets (and the catapults/trebs they brought with 'em)!

 

[CivDude86]

Only if you live long enough to research construction.

 

[Diamondeye]

@Innawerkz: NICE sig!

@above: that is very, very true - new strategy: Don't play against romans ( or be them yourself)