How Can AI Build So Many Cities?

[docbud]

I only play on Emperor. I watch a lot of the videos and I never see the problem I come across a lot. That is mainly that the AI can forward settle two or three cities by turn 50.

I was (note past tense) playing as China and the Ottomans had me surrounded on turn 56 with two additional cities. His main city was on the other side of the continent. And has several archers and warriors.

How can he build them so quick, and the settlers?

And then Ethiopia dumped a third city by me on the same turn (56).

How can they churn out those settlers and military so fast?

I realize that the AI gets bonuses, but sometimes it's ridiculous what they can do.

And how come in all the videos I've watched, I've yet to see the player have to battle non-stop barbs for the first 20 turns? My city was bombarding FOUR barbs from turn five until turn turn 27.

 

[kamex]

Did they go Liberty? This can happen sometimes if they do. Check in Global Politics panel to see what Social Policies they have taken. You can often punish AI wide expansion by building a small army of 4-5 Composite Bowmen and 2 Spearman and capture / raze forward settled cities.

 

[Acken]

Considering humans can settle as fast or faster I don't really understand what is the problem here with 3 or 4 cities at turn 56.
With Liberty I'll settle 7 cities by turn 60-65 for example (see my guide in the strat forum).

Emperor AI has bonuses to production too and so will make more units faster.

What exactly are you doing before making settlers ?

 

[docbud]

^^Well I am definitely not as good a player as you are.

I am building a shrine, a scout, a worker if there are none to steal, and archers because I can't work any tiles without barbs attacking me.

By the time I am still building my second archer one of the AIs is already forward settling.

It's not all the time, but I'd say about 65 percent of the time I come across this.

And I have seen and tried your guide--but I can't seem to do it unless I turn barbs off.

I guess that's why I only play at emperor and not very well.

 

[Acken]

Well that's an okay build. Try to stop growth at 3 or 5 pop depending on whether or not you got pop ruins.

Are you bringing back your warrior for defense ?

 

[docbud]

^^First of all--I want to thank you for the advice you give here.

Yes--I do bring back my warrior. My problem mainly seems to be that there are too many barbs in many of my games. I can't improve my luxuries, therefore my happiness sucks, and because of that I can't settle a second city early.

In some games that doesn't seem to be an issue and I can expand with no problems. But lately it seems I get nothing but barbs and I waste way too much time building units to get rid of them or defend.

But--and this is weird--if I play on Immortal, it's not such an issue. Or maybe that's imagination. But to me it seems I have better gold and happiness in Immortal than Emperor. But although I can hold my own on Immortal, I don't strategize as well I should

Maybe I should say the heck with Emperor and just do Immortal or something.

Again--thanks for your advice and taking the time to help crappy players like myself.

doc

 

[Acken]

No you are right that barbs are less of a problem the higher the difficulty, that's because the AI will clean barb camps.
You have less of a bonus against them to compensate though.

I just don't see how you can have such problems. 2 archers and a warrior are usually enough to deal with most of the problems. Rushing an archer or a spearman is acceptable by the way.

How many scouts are you making and do you use some of them for settler escorts and scout-archers for barb killing ?

I also suggest you try to be proactive against barbs, hunting them when your territory is not directly threatened. You can for example safely clean early barb camps that have no chance to get a CS quest.

 

[Primacide]

For what it's worth, I think you do have more money and happiness on immortal. The AI fights the barbs back pretty well, they have tons of money for trade and they develop their luxes waaaay faster. I don't think you're imagining things. Once you can handle unit spam on immortal, it's actually easier than emperor. The inter-civ rewards are much higher. You miss most early wonders, which is a change from emperor, but the game itself feels easier on immortal.

Just don't get impi spammed, dude.

 

[docbud]

@Acken--but to proactively go after the camps I need to build archers, which means I am wasting production for settlers and stuff like that. I guess I am spending too much time fighting off barbs.

In the last game--which I rage quit (which I do way too often), I hit a ruin, and discovered FOUR barb camps--all within 6 tiles of me.

Guess what happened next?

Yup--they swarmed me.

I think my problem is that I rage quit too much.

@Primacide--yeah--I agree that it seems more happiness and gold on Immortal. And I see your point about the Impis. If I start a game and Shaka is the first AI I meet--I quit and reroll. And you're right about the wonders on Immortal. They're almost impossible to get.

 

[joncnunn]

I only play on Emperor. I watch a lot of the videos and I never see the problem I come across a lot. That is mainly that the AI can forward settle two or three cities by turn 50.

I was (note past tense) playing as China and the Ottomans had me surrounded on turn 56 with two additional cities. His main city was on the other side of the continent. And has several archers and warriors.

How can he build them so quick, and the settlers?

And then Ethiopia dumped a third city by me on the same turn (56).

How can they churn out those settlers and military so fast?

I realize that the AI gets bonuses, but sometimes it's ridiculous what they can do.

And how come in all the videos I've watched, I've yet to see the player have to battle non-stop barbs for the first 20 turns? My city was bombarding FOUR barbs from turn five until turn turn 27.

There is a good chance if you aren't counting the capital that AI Ethiopia went Liberty in that particular game.

Most videos are of peoples BEST starts; games in which fighting the barbs slowed down the start don't see the light of day.

 

[BurnBabyBurn]

AI on Deity is pretty insane with Liberty. It will build cities on a patch of ice..5 cities on a patch of ice. I tend to send out scouts and Mounted and if I'm the Warmonger I just eat up any Civ that tries to forward settle me... That or ignore them and build straight lines to their capitols. More Cities should slow down their Science!

I have had the AI build 4 or 5 cities by turn 30 I think, or maybe 40... Try that on for size... Maybe even 6.. It has been so awful I just want to throw in the towel(time to go straight to Xbows and or as I wrote above DOW them and intercept their settlers which often when being spammed are not protected)

I have been hit heavy by Barbs, early.. build couple of archers to gain experience and block this. Then plant 1 Scout to keep them from pillaging or plant out workers for them to steal instead of attack your units. Barbs are easy to trick they always go for the worker.

 

[Callonia]

AI also gets free settlers at start on higher difficulties.

 

[miaasma]

AI gets a free settler only on deity i believe

if you can sell a lux for GPT to buy an archer and aren't planning on rush expanding, and barbs are a problem, it's something to consider. as long as you don't need the happiness

 

[Acken]

Only on deity

 

[Sarin]

Even on Emperor, AI gets substantial bonuses. Three free techs, extra warrior and scout on start, +50% work rate, 80% cost of units and buildings, need just 80% of food for growth, lowered unhappiness...

All that adds up to it getting quite a head start.

 

[docbud]

Thanks for all the input, gang.

I started a new game as Babylon, and I was surrounded and forward-settled on. So I said screw it--and went one city. And I'm kicking butt now. Need to take out Morocco, which will be no problem. I will post a screen shot tomorrow.

I hear what you are saying BurnBabyBurn--

 

[beetle]

My city was bombarding FOUR barbs from turn five until turn turn 27.

Are you having trouble with AIs forward settling you or barbs? Those problems are kind of mutually exclusive. You said you try turn barbs off, but I think you actually might want to try raging barbs instead!

Very early barbs, like your T5 experience, are basically harmless. You have nothing to pillage and no workers to steal! Sure, it cramps your early exploration, but your starting warrior and scouts can get leveled up. A warrior and two scouts should be able to clear the nearby camp. Reload or restart if you lose a unit. Early losses are devastating.

I think you might be delaying settlers to build a worker. I often hard build my workers, but usually wait until the first settler or two. You need the lux for happy, but otherwise, tile improvements are all very marginal. If you have a couple hills or forest, this is especially true as your city will not starve while building a settler. Tile improvements can come later, but losing a prime expo spot really handicaps your game.

 

[docbud]

^^It's pretty much both. I seem to always have several barb camps near me. While there is nothing to pillage yet, they do bombard my city. And while I'm taking care of the barbs, the AI starts sending escorted settlers in my direction.

And yeah--I usually try to get a worker out pretty quickly, or a second archer. But then I run into gold problems. And when I get that second settler out, I still have issues with gold and then happiness.

Do you really think I should want raging barbs turned on? While they would be a pain in the butt for me, I suppose it would be a bigger problem for the AIs?

I'll have to start trying to expand faster. I just worry the negative gold and happiness. I normally don't like to settle a second city until I have several archers.

EDIT: I also like to make sure I have animal husbandry and bronze so I can settle somewhere with horses or iron (if it's available).

 

[sixty4half]

Most videos are of peoples BEST starts; games in which fighting the barbs slowed down the start don't see the light of day.

Which is counter-intuitive. I would think that people make videos to help educate other people on how to do things. Everyone knows what to do when you have an easy start. It's the hard starts with tons of barbs, or jungles with limited luxs that people need help.

 

[docbud]

^^Agreed.