How Come...

[Civman33]

...The RNG always tries to make spearmen win everything?

Spoiler :

 

[darski]

Don't get me started on this one

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Complex question.

 

[capnvonbaron]

oh god not another spear-vs-tank thread. Lesse...which emoticon to use for this one...

:suicide:

 

[Virote_Considon]

I think the most fitting emoticon for the situation is:

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

Honestly, how often does this happen?

 

[capnvonbaron]

oh god not another spear-vs-tank thread. Lesse...which emoticon to use for this one...

:suicide:

Oh -- oh -- forgot one.

THere.. I feel better.

 

[Turner]

Honestly, how often does this happen?

Often enough. Just recently I lost a 6hp Tank to a 6hp Longbowman. I don't remember the exact details, but I didn't expect the loss.

Keep in mind, even if something has a 1 in a 1000, or 1 in 10,000, there's probably more than one person here who's seen it, and recently.

 

[Civman33]

Honestly, how often does this happen?

It happens almost all of the time. I once had 10 chariots and lost them all to one reg spearman. But I have never lost a tank to one though...

 

[anaxagoras]

It happens almost all of the time. I once had 10 chariots and lost them all to one reg spearman.

See, that's the problem. You should EXPECT chariots to lose frequently against a spear. A regular fortified spear is going to inflict 3 damage for every hit he suffers, on average. It will not be unusual for two vets to lose against a fortified regular, and the spearman isn't regular after he wins twice. Throw a third chariot at him, lose, and he's now elite. I would say it isn't unreasonable to expect - in the perfectly ordinary course of things - to lose (or at least retreat) four chariots attacking a fortified spearman. If there's a forest, river, hill, or (heaven forbid) mountain to overcome as well, make that number at least six. 10 is unusual, but not wildly so.

If you know that going in, you'll be better prepared for it mentally when it happens. (And much less likely to rely on chariots to do the job of horsemen and swords.)

 

[capnvonbaron]

Yeah, uh... chariots are pretty well worthless. Didn't you get the memo?

 

[Taras Bulba]

and how come it seems like elite units get a negative bonus. It seems like my elite units more often lose to regulars (that they should normally beat anyway)

take an example in one of my latest games. Had a stack of Cavalry ('bout 5-6 elite) attacking a city with Reg.Pikeman (1) and Reg.Spearman(however many there were)

I attacked with a Vet. first, knowing this flaw, and it lost. Disappointed, I sent in my elite. It started winning, but with 1 hp left, the Pike managed to fend off 4 hp off the cav making it retreat. The next 4-5 elite cav's attacked (2 died) and none WON their battles, but retreated.

I then attacked with a corresponding number of Vets., and they ALL won without losing 1 hp

 

[Lord Emsworth]

and how come it seems like elite units get a negative bonus.

The RNG has a prescience that let's it know when you will use an elite and when not. This foreknowledge is then used to create the random seed - i.e. the random factors that influence the outcomes of the battles - in such a way that bad seed numbers correlate with your use of elite units.



OK, fun aside. The random seed is created in advance, for many, many battles. Try this for yourself, save the game then fight a number of battles and remember - or even write down - the outcomes. Then reload, and do everything exactly the same way again. And ... you'll get exactly the same outcomes again.

(This obviously works only with "preserve random seed" checked.)

 

[CarthageFTW]

Omg....lost 5 modern armor's to spearman once....cannot describe the anger....

 

[TheOverseer714]

Unless that Spear was a healthy elite on a mountain in a fort with a barricade across a river..... you should be mad. But I bet you still won the game.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

(This obviously works only with "preserve random seed" checked.)

Oh? I thought it was the other way 'round.

 

[Rodrig0]

OK, fun aside. The random seed is created in advance, for many, many battles. Try this for yourself, save the game then fight a number of battles and remember - or even write down - the outcomes. Then reload, and do everything exactly the same way again. And ... you'll get exactly the same outcomes again.

(This obviously works only with "preserve random seed" checked.)

Not only that, it seems to store the outcome of battle in order, not by units. Like, if you reload and do exacly the same moves, you'll get the same results. But if you change the order you made your moves, the outcomes might change too.

 

[CarthageFTW]

Unless that Spear was a healthy elite on a mountain in a fort with a barricade across a river..... you should be mad. But I bet you still won the game.

The only conquest game I've ever atempted, won, on huge pangea...on monarch....AND as Portugal.

 

[Spoonwood]

Does anyone here who talks about the "RNG" actually care to do the probability calculations?

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Not only that, it seems to store the outcome of battle in order, not by units. Like, if you reload and do exacly the same moves, you'll get the same results. But if you change the order you made your moves, the outcomes might change too.

The hidden variable that is provided by the RNG will still be the same though. If there is a difference in the outcome, it'll have to do with a difference in the 'visible' variables (such as attack strength, defense, terrain bonus etc).