How do communes/small chance of discovering x/give feature a chance to spread work?

Not to mention getting through the middle and early games as well, where resources to build an army are limited.


Kingflevance: You may find a terraformers way easier to play, but that is not the experience shared by a lot of other people. When I played as a hybrid, it was quite a bit simpler in a lot of ways. Other people, as mentioned, have complained that terraformers are at a huge disadvantage due to the worm spawns.
 
What I don't understand is how someone can say that playing a terraform is harder than a hybrid. The disadvantage of a terraformer is that aliens will attack you. However, you can combat this by expanding and the terraform civic. That civic should be the first thing you really push for on the tech tree. If you do, and mix it with planned, it's over.

If you are surrounded in fungus, I would suggest limited growth early on. Just because you can grow to size 4-6 doesn't mean you have to right away. When you are ready for that population, it will be there as fast as you want it. I tend to work 2-4:hammers: tiles anyways early on like rocky most or arid land to avoid growth. Maybe a 1:food: 2 :hammers: tile if need be. But working 1 mine will buy you time in the early game to get a good defensive force and maintain a decent PV-PA. Once you have that, start in with the formers going around chopping fungus down.

You have to be careful and look at the real balance in a game. A statement like "terraformers are at a huge** disadvantage because of worm spawns" is blanketed and vague. The statement does not reveal how that weighs against all they other aspects of the game. Worm spawns make it harder for a terraformer. Harder than what though, harder than a hybrid? No. Just makes winning harder. An actual obstacle, and the ONLY one that terraformers have to deal with. Their obstacle is more focused.

**Subjective there as I don't find it huge.

I can usually run a -3 PA and not worry about them. Anyone who says this is a HUGE problem doesn't build enough military.Usually your flame units will keep ahead of the -XX% you take vs. NL with their natural +XX% bonus and you can add in psi defense/attack. Realistically, a terra has an 80% chance of spawning near no fungus. Sure 20% of the time you will have fungus to deal with. If you WANT to run a hybrid economy, you have a 20% chance of getting a good start for it. As a terra locate problematic spawn points and take them out with armors - not flame throwers. 2 moves + collateral damage is more effective than 1 move and +20-35%. Tanks take tower bombardment once and come in for the kill. You can also use choppers but usually they cost more as there is no collateral damage on their part but they only have to receieve it once as they can bypass a tower surrounded in fungus.

Hybrids problems are all over the board. It's a good thing the AI is stupid because a Hybrid vs. a terra in multiplayer is just sick. You can compete in the early game in production by building a few mines here and there but in the long run, your gonna get overrun. Wonders are going to slip out of your hands even when you had the tech first. But mid to late game expect to lose the tech lead and be playing catch up the rest of the game. As by mid game a terra can tear through a wonder pretty fast and start really teching good. Higher population cities make more :commerce: Fungus causes 1 :yuck: for every +1 PV it adds to the city. Then you have to take +2 :yuck: in the city after that. This means That using fungus as a way to get PA/PV is a drawback as you will have to build infirmaries and such. You have to stay at +3 PA or more to reliably not have to worry about NL. At +2 you will still have problems often enough. And sharing a border with a terra With your PA at +2 (really even higher) can cause blooms in your area and have the blooms attack you. Sure you get bonuses against them and this isn't a major pain for you, until it has happened the 4th time in a row. And they get +50% defense and double movement often on the way to you whereas if they go to attack the proper target, the terra - no problem, just wait for them to step out of the rocky terrain tiles if there is any and you know they only get 1 move. I really don't see the advantage to a hybrid. All I see is people subjectively stating that the terra has a hard time with wildlife which to me suggests playstyle more than game balance. In short, they get moderate bonus vs. NL but strong negatives vs. economy... in a 4x game... Whereas terras get moderate negatives vs. NL but also moderate bonuses vs. economy in a 4x game.

Not to mention getting through the middle and early games as well, where resources to build an army are limited.
This statement holds true to hybrids for me. Working a farm-eden(s), and mines (preferably rocky rainy) is plenty of resources to build an army. And this setup doesn't even hurt PV too much. (For a terra) But makes a small city very viable for production. And you can do the same thing with energy instead of minerals. Just use more arid tiles instead of rocky.

When I played as a hybrid, it was quite a bit simpler in a lot of ways.
Could you expand on this?
 
If you wish to know the difficulties people have had playing terraformer, there are some descriptions throughout the forum that are searchable. As mentioned in the previous post, you may find terraformed simpler to play, but someone else may not, and the balance has to take all of it into consideration.

This statement holds true to hybrids for me. Working a farm-eden(s), and mines (preferably rocky rainy) is plenty of resources to build an army. And this setup doesn't even hurt PV too much. (For a terra) But makes a small city very viable for production. And you can do the same thing with energy instead of minerals. Just use more arid tiles instead of rocky.

As a hybrid, you won't need as large of an army, because there are fewer/no mind worm blooms or spawns. Before the civilization really gets going with influence, an army, etc. built up, those fungal attacks can be quite hard to fend off.
 
Since when is absolutely ANYTHING that greatly limits the size of your army EVER "not a very bad thing" in ANY Civ game..??
 
Could it be that playing as a hybrid got people in the habit of not building military and thus playstyle is affected when they switch to a terra? I think so. I play as a terra and switch to the hybrid and am wondering where all my "power" is. I can build worms! Meh, a terra can build more units and faster. Worms really ain't all that great unless they are a captured native IMO and that's mostly because you ain't gotta build them and another units gets XP in the process.

Since when is absolutely ANYTHING that greatly limits the size of your army EVER "not a very bad thing" in ANY Civ game..??
PF has 3 for hybrids
#1 - Smaller cities = less free units available.
#2 - Smaller cities generate less :commerce: from trade and tile yields making it harder to pay for units.
#3 - Less production and worked tiles in general making it harder to build replacements for the units that die.

Hybrid has a large disadvantage. Now lets add in mobilization being crap unless you are dierdra. Enemy gaining significant defense when invading your territory due to +50% and any wildlife that does decide to attack you gets double movement too. Sure you get +20ish% vs. NL (much like flamethrowers in the early game...)... but they only are a problem half the time unless you are running a PA of 4+ where the bonus is larger but... you never fight them. Where is this advantage the hybrids get?

Pickly said:
When I played as a hybrid, it was quite a bit simpler in a lot of ways.
Can you expand on this? I have been expanding on why I find it simpler in alot of way to play as a terra. Yes, I could search the forums but how many of those searches will result in discussion of v13? v11 conversations don't really hold too much relevance anymore. The whole tech tree has been remodeled in v13.
 
W/o wanting to express a final statement if any side has an advantage, just some thoughts on the Hybrid side what I think are more subtle advantages you have.


I can build worms! Meh, a terra can build more units and faster. Worms really ain't all that great unless they are a captured native IMO and that's mostly because you ain't gotta build them and another units gets XP in the process.

If you go full Hybrid, any built NL unit receives a lot of free experience. Both built and captured ones have access to some promotions Terraformers can't use. The strongest is Psychic Terror - it lets negate your NL an essential combat rule of Civ4. Instead of the strongest enemy, you will face the weakest. Bloom (extra plunder, spreads fungus) and Wild (HN) can be useful too - you can enter a Terraformers land and cause trouble by spreading fungus in the backland.


PF has 3 for hybrids
#1 - Smaller cities = less free units available.
#2 - Smaller cities generate less :commerce: from trade and tile yields making it harder to pay for units.
#3 - Less production and worked tiles in general making it harder to build replacements for the units that die.

The best strategy is to spam lots of small bases, which will cost less (no maintenance for number of bases). That leads to a higher PA, compensates for support (which you don't need as much when relying on NL) and also should give you a decent overall production (though it is right that more planning a head is needed, as you likely cannot complete things in one turn). The Brood Pit will further boost building speed of NL units.


Hybrid has a large disadvantage. Now lets add in mobilization being crap unless you are dierdra. Enemy gaining significant defense when invading your territory due to +50% and any wildlife that does decide to attack you gets double movement too. Sure you get +20ish% vs. NL (much like flamethrowers in the early game...)... but they only are a problem half the time unless you are running a PA of 4+ where the bonus is larger but... you never fight them. Where is this advantage the hybrids get?

The +50% defense applies only to forest and rocky tiles (and for the latter ones only if they aren't covered by fungus). So if you have enough fungus in your territory, you should have enough opportunities to caught your enemy.


Sure you get +20ish% vs. NL (much like flamethrowers in the early game...)... but they only are a problem half the time unless you are running a PA of 4+ where the bonus is larger but... you never fight them. Where is this advantage the hybrids get?

I don't understand that part - capturing NL means still fighting it before and w/o winning you cannot capture afterwards.
 
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