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How do I speed up my science?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Bestbank Tiger, Jun 7, 2008.

  1. Bestbank Tiger

    Bestbank Tiger Deity

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    I usually make great scientific progress in Civ 2, but in 3 I'm having a very slow time of it. I've played a few games, and the AI can keep pace with my research and it takes me until the 1800s to make it to the Industrial Age :eek:

    In my current game I focused on expansion and I have a good number of cities and scientific improvements but I'm still not doing that well. What do I need to do different (with Civ 2 as a reference point)?
     
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  2. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Bestbank Tiger,
    My first question would be: At what level are you playing? One of the things that happens with Civ 3 is that the tech pace speeds up as you move up in levels. If you're at Chieftain or Warlord, you pretty much have to do the world's research. At Regent, Monarch & Emperor, the AI can finally begin to do some meaningful research. Above that (I've heard), the problem becomes keeping up.

    Second, are you trading techs? At the lower levels, trading techs isn't very lucrative. As you move up, trading techs speeds up the tech pace and helps ensure that you've got a steady influx of cash.

    Finally, how are you using the sliders? If you're building tons of libraries, but setting science at 0%, they're not generating much science.

    Can you post a save?
     
  3. Kumquat

    Kumquat Not an Orange

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    I wish my Industrial Age would start in 1800 hundreds it would make more sense than the 11th Century :lol: I think it is the difficulty level you are on...hmm warlord maybe.
     
  4. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    The key to fast, self-funded research is:

    1) Get to republic fast.
    2) Many towns (settler factories are key)
    3) Road EVERYTHING
    4) Libs/unis in core towns, with markets to help with happiness from luxes.
    5) NO temples, cathedrals, colleseums, banks, stock exchanges, airports. Not all that many barracks or granaries. Courts in the 2nd band of cities, maybe 3rd.
    6) Make sure all citizens are working tiles that produce commerce - roaded or that have water.
    7) Build the FP - where to build it depends on what version you are using.
    8) Don't build many MP's - small military to find short wars of conquest
    9) lots of workers.

    Basically, you increase commerce by increasing your land, the # of cities on your land, the number of people IN your cities on your land and the amount of commerce each has.
     
  5. Bestbank Tiger

    Bestbank Tiger Deity

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    Thanks...I'll keep a log of my next game and post a few saves. I'm playing on Chieftain because I'm new to 3 and still trying to learn the game.

    Keeping the pother improvements to a minimum makes sense--I start my sliders with high science but I have to turn them down over time to pay for improvements.
     
  6. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    "At Regent, Monarch & Emperor, the AI can finally begin to do some meaningful research. Above that (I've heard), the problem becomes keeping up."

    At least in the early game. Later on you can lead in tech.

    To clarify this "Second, are you trading techs? At the lower levels, trading techs isn't very lucrative. As you move up, trading techs speeds up the tech pace and helps ensure that you've got a steady influx of cash." I think he means trading tech for gold per turn (gpt). Bamspeedy's "deity settlers" article in the war academy shows some examples of this on a deity level game in Vanilla http://civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/deity_settlers1.php. You won't get money like that unless you play the game on Deity or Sid level. But, I found it in a 5cc Regent game I played that you can get gpt for tech from the AIs at least after they have banking. On Emperor and possibly sometimes Monarch they only need to have had currency for a few turns... at least for the tech leaders. In a current Deity game I've played, I actually managed 7 or 8 gpt for literature from an AI before anyone knew currency.

    "NO temples, cathedrals, colleseums, banks, stock exchanges, airports. Not all that many barracks or granaries. Courts in the 2nd band of cities, maybe 3rd."

    Not necessarily. Temples and such can help you to work more tiles... thus more commerce towards science. Building at least 5 banks and 5 stock exchange enables you to build Wall Street which gives you more money. More money means you can research at a deficit, or you can buy more libraries/universities/courthouses/police stations.
     
  7. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Yes and no, and my apologies if I wasn't clear.

    Doug.Lefelhocz, I'm sure you understand the following, but let me clarify what I meant for the benefit of the opening poster. Yes, trading for gpt is a good way to ensure your civ's income. It's a good idea when dealing with civs that you're not going to invade any time soon. But even in the very early game, trading for lump sums also helps speed up the tech pace and create income for your civ. Trading for lump sums can also (sometimes) keep the AI from making much use of the tech I sell them.

    Here's a hypothetical situation for the early game: If I go for the Republic slingshot (which I often do), I might not be able to make any useful trades until Writing. Once I grab writing, though, I might be able to trade Writing to Civ A for Warrior Code and 40 gold. I might then be able to trade it to Civ B for Bronze Working and 10 gold. That gives me 50 additional gold which I can spend in deficit research, plus two other techs that I haven't had to research on my own. Civs A & B also get a tech that they don't have to research, and the tech pace speeds up accordingly.

    Here's a later-game hypothetical: Let's say that I just got Gunpowder. My neighbor (whose lands I intend to take), has 1000 gold that he's willing to give me for it. I make the trade, emptying his bank account, and DOW. Now he's got gunpowder. Yippee for him. How's he going to upgrade those pikes, though? :devil:
     
  8. rysingsun

    rysingsun King

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    also do not expect C3 to ever give you the type of science you got in C2. In C2 a good player could reach 2 to 3 techs per turn because of the zero corruption of some of the governments. In C3 even if you turned off (in the editor) the 4-turn minimum research rule you would still have a difficult time getting your research faster than that.

    Therefore you will get used to the idea that you have to trade if you want to keep up on the higher levels.
     
  9. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Sorry if I mis-represented Aabraxan.
     
  10. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    That is true, to a degree. Things get complicated when you start taking into account temples, etc, because those things take more maintenance - and wall street is useful, but requires 2100 shields (for the banks, exchanges and wall street itself), costs 20 gpt in maintenance (unless you spend the 600 shields on Smith's, of course)

    So yes - the MOST optimal way to fast research, depending on the map and availability of luxuries, may include temples, etc.

    But as a starting rule, it's not a bad idea to never build a temple or bank or colloseum, ever, especially if you build a lot of them.
     
  11. AznWarlord

    AznWarlord Monarch

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    Scientists can take of a couple of research turns. If a city goes to Rebellion and you are forces to use clowns, switch as many as you can to beakers while maintaining happiness.
     
  12. del62

    del62 Deity

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    i dont know how this would work , but for chieftain unless you really need it it might be best not to waste research on a dead end tech until the ai have researched it, this way you can research them much cheaper, or even trade for them

    to be honest i play on regent a lot and by the middle ages i can usually research in the minimum allowed 4 turns,

    as an aside, i have never played civ 2 but on civ 1 in some games on the easiest level i actually managed to get more than one research in a turn, especially in the run up to 1ad.
     
  13. Alpaya

    Alpaya Chieftain

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    Guys, what file I can modify to increase science and production rate? Like Civ4EraInfo.xml in Civ4? For me it is too much turns per one scientific discovery. Thanks!
     
  14. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    From your Civilization III Conquests' (assuming you are playing that) folder, open the editor by launching 'Civ3ConquestsEdit.exe'.
    If you use the editor to load 'conquests.biq', you are editing the base game (make a backup of this file before modifying it, though!).
    Navigate to 'Rules' > 'Edit Rules'.
    You can modify the cost of technologies in tab 'Civilization Advances'.
    You might also want to check out tab 'General Settings' and look at 'Technology', 'Minimum Research Time (in turns)'. I suspect you'll want to decrease this number.
     
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  15. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

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    Or reduce the 'Maximum Research Time' to the same as the Minimum value...? ;)
     
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  16. Chicken Pizza

    Chicken Pizza Warlord

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    Work tiles next to a river. If your game's starting position turns out to be fertile land with lots of rivers, sing halleluja because it's not only a small improvement, but twice the amount of gold (2 instead of 1), provided it's roaded.

    Republic gives you one more gold per tile, but it has free support for only one unit per town and beyond that 2 gold in upkeep for every unit for every turn...

    So in Republic I tend to get stuck with my old towns, building improvements instead of another military unit that would cost 2 more gold, which translates to 3 if it could've been put into science in a town with Library instead.

    Monarchy is better suited for aggresive expansion. With good trading you can stay in the tech race with it even at Demigod.

    Oh, and also world size matters. On a tiny map, research cost is much lower.
     
  17. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    I disagree here: Republic is better suited for aggressive expansion, because with aggressive expansion you'll soon have lot's and lot's of towns/cities, which cover the unit support... ;)
    Then you don't pay anything for your units and still have the +1 gold per tile left for faster research. (Assuming libs and universities are already in place, that's +2 beakers per tile!)
     
  18. justanick

    justanick Emperor

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    I donnot see a clear advantage in favour of monarchy either. The republic is a bit more tricky to handle in the short run, but its superiority in the long run is so clear, that monarchy will have a hard time to actually be better.

    One exception i can imagine is spamming Mounted Warriors when playing the Iroquois. But you better make it count because another period of anarchy hurts a lot, as does not having the commerce bonus.
     
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  19. Chicken Pizza

    Chicken Pizza Warlord

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    I withdraw my general statement, but this kind of describes how I like to play. If you're not agricultural and haven't settled next to a river, you can get three MW per town instead of delaying your expansion by building an aqueduct to get the four extra gold in support by growing to size seven (a process that will slow you down even more).
     
  20. Chicken Pizza

    Chicken Pizza Warlord

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    A very good point, I suppose :)

    Even if a newly captured town is size 1, 100% corrupted and every citizen in it hates you, you can still get 3 gold from it with a tax collector. More if you connect luxuries and irrigate.

    But you have to protect it. Two units in every coastal city, one defender and one attacker, and/or three fast units in the middle able to reach them all, makes me feel calm inside.

    The 1.5 unit support per town in republic pretty much covers that, but in monarchy I get 2 extra gold from martial law.

    With an army in the middle, I feel safe enough to send the coastal city defenders and attackers to war.
     

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