How do I spring back?

[Spoonwood]

What will raising more cash do for you? He is not willing to take techs and or cash. I had plenty of cash. You had no recourse for a diplo victory in this game. I do not know what was done in the game, but Japan would not move off of furious.

The cash goes for military alliances vs. the Inca. I guess rep was trashed too much for that to work. The AI can sign military alliances vs. you. It's just not conscious, so it has no way to know a U.N. vote coming and that it might need alliances. It's just like pulling their puppet strings like with the funnel of doom. The AI simply doesn't have any awareness of what it does. It doesn't inherently favor the human, since the AI could theoretically behave otherwise. But, since there exist no "if U.N. election coming soon, then sign military alliances against the opponent finishing the U.N. now" lines of code, the AI can't deal with it. A good reason for not trashing your reputation in my opinion.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

As to alliance, same thing. Japan would not make that deal and you get the he will never accept that if you offer map, lux, gpt. Rep was trashed and 4 or 5k and several techs did not move him.

And I think I have a hunch I know when rep was trashed happened.

The next logical step for the Inca was the Romans... the only ones left. The Romans were crushed.... utterly crushed. Despite me granting them about 9 techs, the Mayans trading them gunpowder, me trading them horses (they have Military Tradition) they still die a quick and horrible death. The only good thing about that death is the fact that I run in and place 1 city on that continent grabbing 2 sources of wines, a much needed luxury.

Overall, I think I agree with you vmxa very much on trading away luxuries. If you want strong AIs, selling them luxes is the way to breed them.

And then there is the rep hit risk from exporting stuff. In most of the cases where the deals end prematurely, such as the death of your trading partner, you are the one to take the rep hit. Even if you have been gifting.

 

[Taras Bulba]

Spoiler :

Culture
Inca 61406
Liz 34958

Spoonwood "You get more gold for more research or more units. Also, if it picks up the tech pace, that's fine. For most conquest or domination games with max opponents, the sooner you get to Military Tradition the better. The
sooner you get to Industrialization, the faster you can train armies. The sooner you get to Replacable Parts (ala Moonsinger), the better your artillery. Granted this may have its limits when the AIs can quickly build
bombers and you don't want them to get there, but in general, a slower tech pace has at least as many disadvantages as advantages. And you also have to know how to use armies and artillery well I guess."

I do not want to pick up the tech pace, I want to slow it down. I want to be making more beakers than anyone so I am the tech leader at some point. The sooner that point comes, to stay, the better. If the game finds us both
in the middle of the IA, it gets much harder to deal with a strong AI.

They will have bombers to make my invasion much tougher. They may have rails up in lots of places to allow them to try to swamp my landing. Now if all the nations on the other land stay more less equal, then it is not so bad. That is not what we have here.

Now if you are going for UN or Space, maybe that tactic will work, maybe not from this point in this game. You already have made enemies that are likely to be around at vote time. Inca will not have a lot of long time foes
as they are going to be or already are dead.

Space is shaking for someone that is not experienced at this point. You also are exposed to a culture loss here as Liz is bent on fighting Isabella. The only one that Inca has not doubled in culture.

Liz has a massive amount of land that is under others control. It is full of tiles with no roads, so will be hard to take and hard to defend. It is reasonable to think that Inca will be able to invade one of these poor
sisters, unless Liz helps them. If they get on the continent, it could be a problem.

I would agree that the sooner I get to MT the better, not the sooner we get to IA. I want to get to MT and them not. One way to do that is to keep them on a war footing. Not required, but useful.

"He has a tech lead. He just trades Atomic Theory for Refining and he has Electronics on them. He may not have out commerced them, but with Theory of Evolution that doesn't really matter now, does it?"

This started out with him having a big tech lead now it is one tech. I am not fond of trading 9330 beaker tech for 7465 beaker tech. I may do it, but it will find its way to Inca and help them get into the next age.

The AI will ignore AT and Elec and head for the military techs once you have them or the Hoovers is built, till they have only those to get for the next age. This means bombers and tanks sooner.

I may go ahead with the deal and hope I can kill Spain, before they peddles AT. I am not sure. Anyway Inca makes about 250bpt more than Liz and will overhaul her in tech, unless something is done. My point was that you are not really a tech leader if you are slower at research than the other guy and only got those two tech from a wonder.

"The luxuries did not make them into the tech superpower (in this game)."

Never said it did, but it helped them a lot.

Taras Bulba "The thing about the trades with the Inca are that they are a large source of my income ATM. One trade I believe is running at like 97 gpt IIRC. Not to mention my one city on their contient would SURELY die unless I pumped it FULL of Infantry (that is if I get to Replaceable Parts any time soon) I was hoping to get to Flight before I declare war, so I can send troops over en mass very quickly. My navy is non-existant, so I doubt I'd be able to destroy their forces over the water and out of the 4 Man-o-Wars I built, 2 died from attacking regular caravels, and another died from a regular privateer (all vets.) I think I may have 1 left."

I have not been able to look over the game in detail, but you have 5 home grown lux, why is that not plenty? The loss of grapes is not a big deal and probably going to happen anyway fairly soon. You can trade the one lux for the 99gpt and that is fine. It is the second lux that I would not make.

You are looking at it like my ole lady. She see a sale and thinks I can save 50 bucks, not that she cannot afford to spend the money right now. It may be a good deal, but it helps them at a time when you need to slow them down as much as you can.

You are running 30% lux on top of having 6 lux? That seems like a heck of a lot.

How do you expect to fly over mass numbers? You would need need mass airfields and that would need mass numbers of workers, do you have them, nope.

"And if I lose that city on their continent, I lose a source of 2 wines, which would lose me another luxury. I need all the ones I can get

Not to mention it would take forever to get good peace terms, as I am soo much weaker than them. War Weariness (despite me grabbing Universal Suffrage) would destroy my nation, I'd need to go into communism (which I'd have to buy) or Monarchy which would take turns of anarchy. Should I try to conquer the continent, get Replaceable parts, and flight and THEN attack the Inca? I'm afraid if I wait until then, it'll just be me vs. them."

I just posted in a thread that I picked up at 16xxAD and was in Republic. I essentially played the rest till I killed off all and had 2 or 3 lux to start. No US for some time. I am not sure why it should be a huge issue. True the other govs would be less WW issues.

Commie would be a big problem right now, look at CAII it is the poorer of the three choices. It has another major problem in that it use pop to rush things. You would be -20gpt and only 241 beakers per turn.

I looked at just a few towns it is about what I see so often in these games. Cities are chucked full of structures. Dinky little towns that will not do anything productive are building temples or have granaries already and on and on. To the tune of -238gpt.

Way too few workers, too few towns with too many dead tiles.

Pull up F1 and scroll down the list.
Temple 6
Lib 9
uni 9
Factory 4
Troops 9
Granary 2
bank 5
cath 5

I may not have this count perfect, but pretty close. You have 59 towns. Why would you make a granary at this stage? You have 6 lux and are running 30% lux, why would you build temples in tiny towns? Many are on a hill with mountains or other crap land, so they are not even going to get much bigger.

Uni going up in towns with 6 beakers. You get the idea, these are not good investments and this is why you are stuck with a massive maint bill. Less of this stuff and more towns down in the same amount of land, would have gone a long way to seeing you in better shape.

Hope it goes well.

Taras Bulba, BTW the way I can never hear that name without thinking of Yul Brenner.

I took a longer look at the save and here is what I see. Note it does not include any considerations of trades. You may have some decent options there. I always felt that trading with the AI is like playing cards with 6 year old's. It just is not fair, but some times we do it.

Lets see what is going on first. We do not have Salt, so cannot make cavs. We are down Refine, but are up AT and Elec. We have 10 turns to RP. I will say I would have bee lined for RP and not the ToE.

You want to get to infantry and artillery. You also really want to faster workers. You can still get the ToE as any prebuild still works. You just need to get the tech, in time to switch the build. In the mean time RP lets you
get rails up faster and increase the shields in the wonder city.

You are at war with China. They too have Salt not very far away. The position I take on it is that, I prefer to leave China in place for now as they are a buffer with Spain. I would rather switch to Japan as they are behind
me and have a lot more land. Not only that, but the salt is close.

I see a starving size 12, not a good thing. The builds are not going to be very helpful now or even down the road in many towns. Slider is at 30 for lux, science is 50%.

We have so much space that could be filled and do not have a single settler nor any in production?

Toyama: switch to settler. Sell Lib, you get 1 beaker, what is 50% of one rounded down? Need to irrigate the cow. I presume you did not mine those hills as shields will be lost.

Sado: switch to wealth and turn the citizen into a beaker head. Nothing gained here by trying to add a few more pop, nor building things. It is poorly placed next to the volcano.

Orkley: switch cathedral to aqua. This place could be a full sized farm. Sell Lib, same story 1 net beaker for life here. I will sell the temple once we can get a few specialist up.

Cherbourg: switch the temple to an explorer as that is the only means to get any of the shields already invested. Sell Lib and barracks. Switch pop to beaker head. Barracks is of no use here. I would not let anyone get to the point where they could attack the town anyway. Nothing there to upgrade. You will not be able to afford to upgrade the lone cannon.

Grenoble: switch lib to worker. Sell temple and rax. Yes you have a rifle here, but you also have rails. You can send the rifle off to be upgrade when the time is right, if ever.

Tours: making a bank, nice. Oh the town makes zero gold you say. Well whats 160 turns to build a bank that will cost maint. The town must be run my socialist as it has Rax/Temple/Market/Lib/Aqua. Not bad for a zero growth
size 2 town. I know you did not build all that stuff, but you did not sell any of it either and are trying to add to it?

Sell all that I can. I reluctantly switch to harbor. I was about to make it a worker, but with the aqua here I go with the food.

The Mumbles: switch cathedral to market. I move pop on Portsmouth to free up tiles for Mumbles so it can grow faster. Later can give tiles back. Sell walls, lib, temple and barracks. Size 7, so walls not useful now.
Move citizen off mountain to grass. Now +3 food and got back the lost beaker. Move joker to grass +4 food.

Belfast: switch aqua to treb. Size 2, no food. No harbor either and I would not invest in one in a corrupt town. I take the two pop and make them scientist and will let town starve to size one. The one will be a scientist for the rest of the game. Now I get 3 beakers instead.

It is losing 3gpt, so I sell Lib and temple so now it is -1gpt. After this turn it will go to wealth and not cost anything.

That is a run down on the border with Japan. Gold was 2463 now 2713 46gpt now 61gpt.

Now a look at the Chinese border.

Kuala Lumpur: switch to worker. Sell granary and some other building. Send a regular spear from Bordeaux over to be disbanded to rush worker. I have no use for regular spears in Republic gov at this stage of the game.

Maybe not at any stage. I send the other to Chinan.

I do not know how long this war has been going on nor how we stand. IOW I am unclear as to continue it or switch to Japan. Given that the salt is Kaifeng and that area can be cutoff, I will go for it. Once that is secured, make peace.

I see a cav was left out to die at 1 HP.

Tatung: switch Lib to wealth.

Paoting: switch to wealth. It was a close call what to do here, but Temple in 57 more turns will not matter.

Chinan: switch the Lib to a wall. Yet another lib going in 80 turns in a 1 beaker town. Sell harbor as there is enough grass to feed the place. Debate on the market and may yet sell it.

Now the rest. I am not going to list every change, just a few to highlight some points.

Amiens: switch to wealth and put the lone pop as scientist, here after refer to as BH (beaker head).

Birmingham: I switch to 90% research and zero lux. This may not stand, but I want to see what is really needed. Looking at the town at 50%, it has no need of the uni going up. At 90 it is marginally ok. The granary is of no real use, unless you plan on making settlers or workers here. Not a good plan if you want all those multiplier building.

The town is not growing at size 5. What is 50% of zero again? Sell it and the temple and the barracks. Not going to build troops here. We will get it growing eventually, but are way to short on workers to do anything about it now.

Sell granary in any town not growing or already size 12.
sell walls in size 7 or in places that will not come under attack.
Sell libs if less than 4 beakers net.
sell barracks if not going to make troops here, due to A) lack of shields B) cannot afford the upkeep for the troops.
Sell harbors if not use coastal tiles.
Stop any build that meets above.

Need to get rails to borders and to find some workers to improve top cities and no growth towns.

Paris: switch from FP to a settler. Need to not wait 67 more turns for the FP.

Newcastle was to going to switch to FP in 2, but it has corrupt shields. Switch to factory instead. Not going to need many banks. Well may need them, but hope to run low in the tax slider.

Canterbury: switch it to FP. I hated to let go of the cav, but FP is more important and is 10 turns.

Bristol: this is painful. Making a uni with 154 shields in it now. Bristol is size 4 tundra with no growth and no harbor. Why it even has a lib is my question. It has a temple too of course. Best I can do is switch to a rifle and lose the 74 shields. Sell the structures. I put all pop on BH and let it starve to size 1.

Leicester: another example of not looking at the town and just building what seems like good idea. It is making a cathedral, but with lux slider at zero, it is happy. Only 1 unhappy citizen, so why do I want blow 160 shields and 2gpt maint?

Not only that, but a granary was just complete 5 turns before or was started when the town was not growing. Either way it is size 7 and no extra food to grow, but a granary was built. Yes we can get it grown, but not for right away as we do not have the workers.

Anyway, why do I want to spent shields to speed up the growth of a size 7 city? Put a granary up in one of the early towns and let it make the settlers, only a few early places need granary. Switch to settler.

Berwick: making a uni at size 6 and cannot grow. I switch to aqua in 1 turn. It also had a cathedral?

London: you should have rushed a coal plant before starting hoover. If you did that and mined the one grass tile, you would have finished it in 9 more turns. You could switch it as I can still saved a turn.

Jamestown: may be my favorite as it is size 4 with a cathedral and a colosseum and temple. A market would be much better as it also ups gold. It is making a rifle at 80 turns, not a good plan unless it is a massive AW game.

I just noticed it also has a uni? It is making 4 beakers at 90% now that is money well spent. This place would have been better off with a wall and a civil defense by now. I put two pop as BH as get 7 beakers and sold off
the lib/uni/temple/cath/colo. Will make a wall and start a civil defense.

If someone comes for the place may as well either make them pay or gift the place. If you were to get to flight and the defenese was not finished you could switch to an airport an pump the place up.

BTW even if you could hold the place they will cut the wine. You would have to put up a strong defense to hold the grapes. If you really want the wines you should have founded the town on the grapes and get another town on the coast.

As it is now a war will probably cut of the trade route for the wine, even if they do not take the town. I would consider rushing a settler and moving it to the wine hill. Abandon the town and found a new town. It looks like there is no culture to prevent it or force you to over lap any ones tiles. Then get up the defensive structures and finally an airport. You will need an airport on your end and then the grapes stay yours, IF you can hold the town.

I have seen so many walls, I am sure most were not needed. It looks like someone playing a war game and I doubt you were at war that much. Even the capitol had one iirc.

Still no MA started.

Final tally:

111111 gold 2463 61gpt income from cities 1355 557bpt RP in 10 turns
1610AD gold 3973 54gpt income from cities 1425 930bpt RP in 6 turns will drop to 5 after new towns planted.


Anyway I hope some thing in there will be us some use.

thank you SOOO MUCH for those tips. These are things I never really knew. I've NEVER EVER been one to really know how to micromanage (or even really understand what is what) Sorry I haven't responded before. My internet hasn't been too good, and whenever I would open this thread (don't ask me why) but the internet would die, so I didn't get the chance to respond. (went to this thread first this time)

but I haven't touched the game yet, but I'm hopefully going to start it back up later today or tomorrow and take in your advice, and I'll see how I go

That is not going to work. I started sooner on winning Japan over, but they would never vote for me. Inca was at war with all of us for some time and each vote Japan abstained.
Spain was polite and voted for me. I gifted techs and still nothing. I knew I was not going to win them over when even 3 techs and a lux would not get them to into an alliance Vs Inca.
In the end they made an MPP with Spain who already was my ally. Note that I never attacked Japan or Spain. I did not raze any towns, so whatever was done was done long ago.
Now I admit I did not go to extremes by dealing them lux and maybe a town in the hinder land. Not sure that would work either, but I feel the whole UN thing is lame. It is like trading in general, it favors the human too much.
Space would be a snap in this game as I am several techs ahead, but conquest may be beyond reach as they have at least 600 infantry.
I have not decided yet. I am done with the vote, no more election. I figure to kill off Spain and then Japan and we will see at that time, if invasion can be done.
Not going to use nukes, if I can avoid it.

well... now I think I have a victory condition I will go for (Space Race) I probably will have to grab the UN though, just in case

And I think I have a hunch I know when rep was trashed happened.
Overall, I think I agree with you vmxa very much on trading away luxuries. If you want strong AIs, selling them luxes is the way to breed them.
And then there is the rep hit risk from exporting stuff. In most of the cases where the deals end prematurely, such as the death of your trading partner, you are the one to take the rep hit. Even if you have been gifting.

I didn't know that. That seems kinda' stupid, but its good to know


PS-nor can I think of my name without thinking of Yul Brenner

 

[vmxa]

He played in the movie about Taras Bulba a couple of generations ago and I saw it in first run, so it just comes to mind.

Yes you will need to build the UN to prevent anyone else from getting a vote. I doubt anyone could, but you can't be sure. Inca must go to war with both Japan and Spain at some point to clear it land.

Space will be a snap, I am just a few tech from being able to launch. Inca has yet to research Fission, so no Manhattan. The headed for Space techs instead and have a few parts.

 

[vmxa]

T
"The AI can sign military alliances vs. you. It's just not conscious, so it has no way to know a U.N. vote coming and that it might need alliances."

Sound like it is broken to me. Anyway I already told you I had plenty of cash and Japan was not taking any deal I could dream up. If they won't take 5,000 and several techs, I doubt 10 or 15 grand will do the job.

Anyway I had no real interest in alliances, I just try for them for the heck of it. I would not have a problem, if all of them went to war with and in fact they are.

Inca is on the other land and can do nothing. Japan is still in the early IA and I am close to eliminating Spain.

It is always a good idea to not wreck you rep. I rarely will, especially on purpose. I may get caught out by mistake, like not noticing a trade could blow up. I can't remember the last time though.

 

[vmxa]

Taras Bulba, not sure if you are still at this one or not, so I will attempt to use the spoiler code.

This is sort of a test as it is just a pix, but I am not sure if you have seen the whole map at this point.

Spoiler :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=203747&stc=1&d=1234561466

Half right, the tags worked, but I did not get the pix inside. At least now I know I can get text inside. Anyway just don't click on the thumbnail, if you do not want the screen info.

Let me know if you want me to post any logs in a spoiler.

 

[Taras Bulba]

Taras Bulba, not sure if you are still at this one or not, so I will attempt to use the spoiler code.

This is sort of a test as it is just a pix, but I am not sure if you have seen the whole map at this point.

Spoiler :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=203747&stc=1&d=1234561466

Half right, the tags worked, but I did not get the pix inside. At least now I know I can get text inside. Anyway just don't click on the thumbnail, if you do not want the screen info.

Let me know if you want me to post any logs in a spoiler.

I am still interested. If you wouldn't mind posting the logs, I'd love to see how you did it. I attempted to start where I stopped off before, but I didn't like where the game brought me (I did this 2 or 3 times) and getting frustrated, I started up a new game (planning to come back to it after I finished this game) on Regent, and I'm dominating

my score is currently 3333, and I was just about to post it in interesting screenshots for that

Spoiler :

 

[vmxa]

Alright I will put them up. I don't blame you for getting worn down. It was a very long tedious conquest. I think it took me about a week of pretty steady playing. I saw the screen shot and figured you had another game going.

You ever think of going for a smaller map, say even large? A huge with continents or islands takes a lot of time.

 

[vmxa]

Here we go with the rest of the story

Spoiler :

I have found a some workers doing useless task. Solo or twin slaves making a road on a hill or mountain. This at a time when the game cries out for rails. gang them up and do important things.

1625AD:
Got a leader around 1625 so three armies, but still no MA or Pentagon. capture a town that turn.

This turn I sold Nat to Henry for his paltry 30 gold. I think he is OCC. I sold it to Khan for some gold, map and 46gpt. He probably will not be around long as he is at war with Inca. I may as well get what I can and maybe he will draft a few rifles to do some damage.

RP will be done on the IBT. Spain already has it. I have not traded AT as I am waiting to get something from Inca as well. No rush as it will be worth its full price, till I sell it. I do not need Refining right now anyway.

Maybe I will get lucky and Inca will have Espionage to trade. I want spies, but do not want to research that tech.

The empire is in terrible shape. Lots of tiles need work, not counting the roads and rails that are not up. Just the tiles that need water or a mine. All those mountains will be a real pain to rail. I would like to get at least a path to the Spanish end.

1630AD:
The good news is we have rubber, The bad news is no road. It is in one of the early towns, so it depressing to see several tiles without a road. They still have trees? One of the things I try to mention is to get those trees chopped in the AA or early MA.

It is fine to have one with a road to use for shields, not once you get close to the IA and Steam. There is not a worker in sight either, so I will have to raise a few. So no Infantry just yet. BTW there are no Rifles or even Muskets or even Pikes in the border towns with China?

I have moved the Jamestown site to the grapes. If we can get enough time to get it built up and fortified, then all the better.

IBT:
Cancel the 59gpt Ivory deal. Mongols eliminated by Inca. Canceled the embargo with Span Vs Japan as I would prefer to not get anything going with them just yet.

1640AD:
Capture Kaifeng and have Salt.

1645AD:
We have Infantry now, I disband spears, pikes and regular muskets and all AC except an elite.

1754AD:
I am working on Motor, but no one has started a war any where. I was sure Inca would jump on someone after I ended the lux last turn.

Henry made a trade embargo against me, but I sell him Medicine for his gold and 41gpt. The last deal with Inca will expire next turn, not sure how that will go. Isabel has researched Ironclad.

I made this deal: Inca gets AT for Communism and Silk and Map. Isabel gets AT for Ironclad, 40 gold and 19gpt. These are not good deals, but will slow them down some. Both are broke. It could lead to war, but Inca has jumped Smoke and brought in Mao.

Well well, I steal Refine and now things look swell on the tech front. We now have Rubber and Salt. FP soon to be done. Pentagon and Hoovers in 6 turns. Steel in 4 turns, maybe less as a few more towns and uni's finish.

All but a few rifles are upgraded and a few cannons. We make +112gpt at 80% research and 10 lux. Of course that will change if the deal ends for 99gpt, but we can handle that, can they?

1660AD:
Renewed the deal, the empire has too many holes to defend right now.

1670AD:
SGL shows up for Steel. Too sweet, I switch the Hoover to MA and waste nearly 300 shields. I rush Hoovers elsewhere with the SGL and next turn we can start making armies.

1675AD:
Smoke is toast, so I would expect to hear a DOW from Inca soon, maybe it will be on Spain? Anyway I am about up to the limit on WW, so I will have to stop, unless someone declares on me.

I have 4 of towns in salt area and will try to get the other two before I stop.
Got a leader made 4th.

1680AD:
Japan eliminated Henry and Inca wanted Gem, but is a chicken. Pentagon is in, max power for armies now. Isabel has Espionage, I knew she would go for it. I will trade or steal it a bit later.

Took the last town in the salt area and made peace for a junk town and 30 gold. I gave the town to Isabel. A couple of brownie points and it is on an island anyway. I will fill the armies to 4 units now. Next turn will work on getting rails up in the border towns to Japan.

Then I will be able to handle any landing or incursion. Need to start making boats in a bit to get ready for my invasion. I just need one for each army, the rest can fly over. Maybe 2 extra boats for artillery. That is, if we still have Jamestown. It is pretty well fortifed, but could be over run with enough effort. Now that war has stopped, I go to 100% research and drop Combustion down to 4 turns.

We are within the double culture now, so they cannot win that way. They are still about 4k more in score.

(edit I think this is not accurate, I probably misread the numbers)

1762AD:
No one wants to fight. Inca troops got next to Jamestown and then turned around. I have tank being built. I have a few empty armies waiting. I let the peace deal run its 20 turns, so I declare on Mao. I need to get the land adjacent to Isabella as I want to hit her next.

Capture 4 of 7 towns on the land. Filled 5th cav. I have flown a few units to Jamestown to augment the forces there.

1768AD:
Made back to back leader last turn so I filled all the way to 6th. 7th is tank army with 3 units now. I still have 2 empty and one coming out in 4 turns. One town left on the homeland and it almost fell this turn.

No other wars, but I just realize Mao has two towns on the Inca land. I will send two transports with armies to take the two island towns. Not sure right now if I will hold them or abandon. I may keep them as the island is in range for bombing me, if I let Isabel have it.

She is my likely next target, rather than Japan. Mainly as her land here is not so full of mountains, tundra and missing roads. I should be able to run her off the continent.

1770AD:
Got the last town on the mainland. I see the top dogs are down Flight, Mass and Motor. I am making about 1600bpt.

1776AD:
Made peace for the last two towns, so Mao is OCC on Inca's land. I don't know why they did not take those town, but maybe they will grab his last one. Will get in a few turns of peace to rid some of the WW, if any is left.

I keep hoping someone will start a war with someone soon, but they are sitting on their hands. I will have Computers after the IBT.

I sold Nat to Mao for a few buck and 5gpt. Maybe he will kill a few attackers.

1780AD:
Inca learns AW. They are making 675bpt or a bit more, depends on the overflow. Not even half of ours. Looks like the loss of those 2 lux did hurt them.

1788AD:
I am a bit surprised as Spain had not learned Flight or Motor in 1786 and Inca had not either. Now they both know both? I guess they each learned it and traded, but that seems a long shot.

IBT:
Well I guess going into the modern age made someone feel good. Inca DOW and attack Jamestown. It goes down, but we kill 174 cavs on defense. Too bad it did not survive as we lost a leader and the grapes. We did take a nice bite out of their troops. No one joined them.

 

[vmxa]

Continued:

Spoiler :

1790AD:

This is what Inca has for an empire:
Worker 41
Marines 8
Pike 2
LB 13
Musket 11
Rifle 30
Cav 81
Inf 519
bombard 48
boats 33
planes 16
Crusader 10
MDI 20
towns 112

So do we invite others to the party?

Plus:
if we need a vote, it could help.
They will force them to use up some units may cut off trade, I doubt they have any lux going though.

Minus:
Inca will probably take all the towns on their land.
Inca may be able to grab the islands
Inca could get some foot holds in my land and use it to bring in lots of units.

I am leaning towards doing it. It is likely that Inca will get towns on my land, the trick is for me to be the one to take them back.

Japan will not make an alliance, so I presume they have a plan of declaring on me, good I need the land.

I gave Mao Communism for an alliance.

I bite the bullet and make this offer to Isabella:

Gems for Wines
Alliance Vs Inca

Of course she say never accept it. I then toss in Ecology and we have a deal. I knew it would require a tech, but I wanted to see the response. Now we will see how badly she fares. The problem for Spain is she has less than Inca and her forces are split over two continents and an island.

Spain:
Settler 5
worker 30
pike 1
rifle 19
cav 26
inf 239
boats 60
bombers 8
conquis 4
mdi 6
guerilla 25
town 54

Me:
settler 1
worker 31
cav 55
tank 25
MI 34
art 21 (not counting captures
boats 4
planes 10
army 11
guerilla 2

Much unhappiness breaks out. I was surprised as I expected some war happiness and I replaced the wines. I guess the loss of those troops and the town are the reason. Anyway nothing I can do as they started it.

I decide to revolt to Monarchy, it will be painful, but so is the WW.

Here is Japans power, since I am sure they are coming:
Settler 2
Worker 7
Spear 1
Pike 17
LB 6
Musket 59
Rifle 19
Cav 48
cannon 8
boats 37
samurai 9
mdi 24
Towns 31

IBT:
Goodbye Mao. Looks like Izzy lost 3 towns.

1792AD:
At least now (in anarchy) I can put some pop back to work so cities are not starving. It looks like you cannot do any spy missions while in anarchy. I did get 6 turns, so not bad.

1798AD:
Well Japan made an embargo with Inca, then an MPP with Spain. So they had to DOW Inca and no more embargo, not that it mattered. I guess they are not going to war with me, but never can tell. Spain is down to 40 towns, but Inca have only added 1 to 113. The worst part of the anarchy is the half speed workers, they are killing me.

1800AD:
I am impotent to do anything right now, while Japan and Spain each lost 3 more towns.

1806AD:
A few landing so far not much. Spain had 11 tanks come into my land, but they turned back next turn. Not sure if they had an idea or was headed to help Japan.

Spain down to 32 towns and Japan to 26. Inca up 1 to 114. It looks like all foreign towns removed from Inca land now.

1810AD:
Spain 31 and Japan 25. Boring game since China made peace. I need Japan or Spain to attack me or break their MPP. I think I will hit Spain and forget UN. I will build the UN and not call a vote. I will wait for my alliance to end as I prefer to not break deals.

1826AD:
Trade Recycle to Spain for Fascism and AW about 1700 and 183gpt.

1828AD:
Japan hates Inca and me and abstained. So no winner, Isabel voted for me. Hence no value to the UN and I can go ahead and hammer them.


1856AD:
Spain:
Settler 1
worker 2
marine 1
inf 204
tanks ( I forgot them
bombardment 4
boats 49
bombers 11
conquis 5
guerilla 26
flak 1
town 31

Jumped on Spain and razed or captured 6 towns.

1858AD:
down to 22

 

[vmxa]

I hope I have gotten these in sequence and not to many errors and omissions, but it is not easy to keep track of such a large game.

Spoiler :

1860AD:
I have trapped 131 infantry with armies and they cannot move. Eventually I will take all the towns and they will go poof. I made a number of leaders, 4 this turn and 2 back to back. 20 armies up now. Two more empty. I have
done little with Japan so far.

Spain:
Settler 1
worker 1
marine 1
inf 170 (131 trapped
Tanks 15
bombardment 4
boats 28
bombers 9
conquis 1
guerilla 26
flak 1
town 21

1862AD:
4 more leaders, another back to back and the second one on the ole Spanish island.

1864AD:
25 armies, one more leader.
Down to 16 towns, we have 110.

1866AD:
Leader, 22 full armies and 4 empty.

Spain:
Settler 1
worker 1
marine 1
inf 150 (129 trapped
Tanks 16
bombardment 4
boats 18
bombers 2
guerilla 26
flak 1
town 15 (Liz 112

1868AD:
Towns 12, Liz 119

1870AD:
Towns 10, Liz 121

1878AD:
Spain is gone, not really. Had to keep one town for culture blanket. I just bomb it down to size 1 and destroy all the buildings that I can and park on all their tiles. This makes it hard to do anything.

Japan down:
settler 4
Worker 16
Pike 1
LB 1
Musket 1
Rifle 74
Cav 26
cannon 16
boats 38
mdi 10
Towns 22, Inca still with 113, Liz 138

1892AD:
Japan off the land, they have two boats out with settlers. They have been trying to land and found towns on the Inca land, but that will not work.

1906AD:
Still they have not added a single town? Herodotus says we are the most powerful, but our advisor says we are weak compared to them. Landing party is off.

1908AD:
Inca

worker 13/14
Marine 13
LB 4/3
Musket 2
Rifle 6/5
cav 17
inf 10
tank 160/162
MI 552/554
arty 48
cruise 2
trans 2
DD 6/8/5(-3)
fighter 7
bomber 48/46(-6)/43(-3)
jet 49/48(-5)/45(-3)
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 207/208
sam 5

Yeah that is a fair number. Killed 5 jets and 6 bombers in bombing runs. I slashes I used differently at different times. It usually is a demarking for the next action. Here it looks like I logged the numbers at the start of the turn and then the numbers at the end of the turn with the (-x) showing how many I killed of that type.

Then a slash for the next turn, with the losses again. I am just trying different ways to do it and I am not sure how it will end up.

1910AD:
Looks like they managed to make 1 worker, upgrade a LB to a tow, upgrade a rifle to MI, build an MI, 2 tanks and replace 4 of the bombers and 4 of the jets.

I bomb as many roads as I can and use arty on a few more and found the town. Set up a few tiles with armies to slow them down and funnel them a bit. Killed 3 DD, 3 bombers and 3 jets. They have not attempted a landing in a long time.

 

[vmxa]

Off we go :

Spoiler :

1912AD:
They sent 4 stacks.
1) cavs 12
2) MI maybe some tanks, but the stack is too large to scroll, so it over 120.
3) MI/tow/tanks 50
4) tanks/MI 40

I am going to surround them, except the cavs which I will kill as I have to occupy that square. This will basically cut off those units for the rest of the game and I will commit 12 armies to guard them. Mostly cav and tank armies and 1 MA army. I will have 21 MA armies to cause grief and havoc.

worker 14
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 17/5(-12)
inf 10/9(-1)
tank 163
MI 555
arty 48
cruise 2
trans 2
DD 5
fighter 7
bomber 45/42(-3)
jet 52/49(-3)
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 209
sam 5

Looks like they made a tank, MI, 2 bombers, 7 jets (they do love them so) and 1 tow. I messed up my layout, so I could not surround them this turn. I do not want to damage any of these SOD as they will go back to heal.

I will let them move up on the hill and then cut them off. I have armies in place to do that, I hope. I did kill the cavs and an infantry guarding a salt colony.

My stealth guys did a poor job this time and one was even shot down. I did get 3 jets and 3 bombers.

1914AD:
What a pain, now I have their two SoD locked down. I have all my arty on constant bombardment on their tile. I have 16 MA armies out. They will get on the rails next turn and start some damage.

1918AD:
Razed a few towns and grabbed 14 arty.

1920AD:
A few more towns gone. I switched the pre on the last part for the space boat so as to not launch.

At end of turn looked like this:
worker 16//21
Marine 14/13/
LB 3//
Musket 2//
Rifle 5//
cav 7//5
inf 9//
tank 169/178/165
MI 552/545/530
arty 47//49
cruise 2//
trans 2/3/
DD 10/12/14
fighter 7//
bomber 24/22/16
jet 54/53/52
MDI 3//
Guer 1//
crusader 9//
tow 207/206/200
sam 5//

The double slash means no change.

1926AD:
settler 2/0
worker 17/15
Marine 13/
LB 3/
Musket 2/
Rifle 5/
cav 5/
inf 9/
tank 166/167
MI 525/517
arty 49/50
cruise 2/
trans 3/
DD 14/16
fighter 7/
bomber 7/6
jet 59/55
MDI 3/
Guer 1/
crusader 9/
tow 199/
sam 4/

1928AD:
I expanded the borders so CAII says the one stack is 516. The second iirc is 128.
Towns 98.

1930AD:
I don't know what is going on, but the game goes into not responding for long stretches. I cancel it and start it, but it locks down eventually. I finished the last turn after much fuss, but I have had enough. The game is
over really anyway. I could have launch some turns back and I would learn Smart weapons on the IBT.

They cannot do anything with over 600 units locked down. They send out 2 to 4 units most turns and that is it.

I have been killing their bombers with stealth bombers or captures of the town. I capture towns, send back all the armies and then abandon.

I run a settler up to the border to found a town so I can save movement to use in attack and return. In short, it would just be a slow process of conquest.

settler 1/4(+3)
worker 14/15)+1)
Marine 13/
LB 3/
Musket 2/
Rifle 5/
cav 6/
inf 9/
tank 166/
MI 503/505(+2)
arty 50/
cruise 2/
trans 3/
DD 15/16)+1)
fighter 7/
bomber 9/16(+7)
jet 50/56(+6)
MDI 3/
Guer 1/
crusader 9/
tow 199200(+1)
sam 4/
towns 94

As you can see they love to make bombers and jets. They are making all those settler to attempt to grab the free resources created by the razing of some towns.

 

[vmxa]

Well I did truck on:

Spoiler :

1932AD:
Killed rifle, tank, 7 MI,DD, 9 bombers, 6 jets, tow and took down 3 towns. We will see how many are replaced.

Well I seem to have run into another one of those runaway things. The game sits there for 10-15 minutes saying please wait. Eventually it comes back to end turn and then that goes away. Finally it comes back and if you hit the enter key it plays out.

Each time the turn starts it goes normally till you move the last unit with movement.

1934AD:
settler 1/2
worker 15/16 (15)
Marine 13/14
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 6/7
inf 9/8
tank 165/162
MI 498/487 (475)
arty 51 (50)
cruise 2
trans 4/3
DD 15/8 (5)
fighter 7
bomber 12/13 (9)
jet 56 (48)
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 199/198 (197)
sam 4
towns 93/90 (86 end 1936)

1936AD:
Now all the trapped units are in my borders and it is 623.

1938AD:
settler 1
worker 20
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 2
inf 8
tank 161
MI 474
arty 49
cruise 2
trans 2
DD 5
fighter 7
bomber 8
jet 48
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 196
sam 4
towns 86 (they planted at least 2)

Large part of the continent is now cut off (with towns). Will block the other side next.

1942AD:
Started to kill a few of the units trapped with spare armor. The smaller stack is getting pounded by RA every turn, but now it cannot heal.

settler 2
worker 12
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 2
inf 8
tank 153
MI 448
arty 48
cruise 2
trans 2
DD 5
fighter 6
bomber 6
jet 46
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 194
sam 4
towns 78
Trapped 610

1944AD:
settler 3
worker 13
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 3
inf 8
tank 149
MI 438
arty 42
cruise 2
trans 2
DD 5
fighter 6
bomber 4
jet 43
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 190
sam 3
towns 72
Trapped 603

1946AD:
I have begun to get leaders from the trapped units to the point I cannot fill them. I switched the army build to MA's from now on. I have 39 armies now.

settler 3
worker 13
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 3
inf 8
tank 149
MI 438
arty 42
cruise 2
trans 2
DD 5
fighter 6
bomber 4
jet 43
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 190
sam 3
towns 71
Trapped 584

1948AD:
I start the long task of switching all the scientist to tax as I have nothing left to research. Well I do have Sanitation. I am selling the libs and uni's. I will run at zero %.

settler 2
worker 11
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 2
inf 7
tank 143
MI 391 (hey down under 400
arty 39
cruise 2
trans 2
DD 4
fighter 5
bomber 8
jet 42
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 185
sam 3
towns 66
Trapped 572

 

[vmxa]

another set:

Spoiler :

1950AD:

settler 2
worker 6
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 2
inf 7
tank 143
MI 371
arty 39
cruise 2
trans 2
DD 4
fighter 5
bomber 9
jet 40
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 185
sam 3
towns 64
Trapped 565

1952AD:
settler 0
worker 7
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 2
inf 7
tank 131
MI 313 (nice drop this round
arty 31
cruise 2
trans 1
DD 6
fighter 2
bomber 4
jet 31 (starting to show an impact here
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 176
sam 3
towns 52
Trapped 523 (slowly grinding down

Advisor says I am now average versus them. I guess that is why they are losing cities and I am not. I captured Sun's. I razed Cuzco awhile back and it had Pyramid, Leo and 2 others. I have no interest in granaries and I have money to burn and few upgrades to do.

I make about 2k a turn and only upgrade captured artillery. In fact a few of those I disband as they are not on roads. I have eliminated all the Inca towns on the left side of the continent. They still manage to make about
as many units as I kill each turn.

They probably have no support issues at this time as I am killing enough of the trapped units to offset the loss of the towns. I finally found a barb camp. I expected more as there is a lot of empty land. I am not illing it as I use settlers to found towns on the border to let me reach them.

Some I then abandon as I do not have enough units to defend them all. I probably could hold some as they are only sending in 1 or 2 units per turn. I am just playing it safe. No need to rush and no need to let them get in a few licks.

1954AD:
settler 2
worker 7
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 2
inf 7
tank 132
MI 275 (under 300
arty 29
cruise 2
trans 1
DD 5
fighter 2
bomber 0
jet 27
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 176
sam 3
towns 48
Trapped 496 (cracked 500 I have nearly 100 RA's pounding them all to 1 HP. The shuffle back and forth on the two tiles. I am hoping to get them on one tile so I can free up 4 armies.

I have pushed them back to the one side of the continent. 43 armies with 3 empty and one needs one more. I have 253 towns now as I start to fill in the border now to prevent anyone slipping past me. I am able to rush out several settlers from most of the captured cities.

Most of the time there is enough structures to disband to rush them with recycle. If not a few bucks or unit disband to finish the build, once resistance ends. It ends fast now as I have 20% lux and 7 lux. I still have not gotten silk.

I have not taken pictures or kept saves as this has taken so long and I am jumping from game to game, not to mention the author is still playing last I checked.

1955AD:
settler 2
worker 7
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 1
inf 7
tank 131
MI 264
arty 27
cruise 2
trans 1
DD 4
fighter 2
bomber 1
jet 24
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 175
sam 3
towns 44 Liz 261
Trapped 493

Hey advisor finally says we are strong compared to them, yeah.

1956AD:

Inca start yet again the Project. Made a few more leaders and have 45 armies.
settler 4
worker 7
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 1
inf 7
tank 131
MI 259
arty 22
cruise 2
trans 1
DD 1
fighter 2
bomber 1
jet 21
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 152 ( got about 20 from the trapped units
sam 3
towns 41 Liz 274 (1 town in the tundra at the bottom of the map left and I am over the mountains now.
Trapped 473

1957AD:

Settler 1
worker 2
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 0
inf 7
tank 131
MI 228
arty 19
cruise 2
trans 1
DD 1
fighter 2
bomber 0
jet 18
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 151
sam 3
towns 35 Liz 296, 46 armies
Trapped 458

We now have silk, all of them.

1958AD:
Had a flip with a cav or two in the town, grabbed it back. Not sure why it would flip as it is far from the remains of the Inca lands and was down to just a few pop. No big deal. They are nearly double my culture though.

Settler 2
worker 2
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 0
inf 7
tank 131
MI 186 (under 200
arty 12
cruise 2
trans 0
DD 1
fighter 1
bomber 1
jet 11
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 151
sam 3
towns 29 Liz 324, 47 armies
Trapped 432

1959AD:
empty town in the tundra flipped. Grabbed it back, it was size 1 anyway.

Settler 3
worker 0
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
cav 0
inf 7
tank 131
MI 154
arty 11
cruise 2
trans 0
DD 1
fighter 1
bomber 1
jet 6
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 149
sam 3
towns 22 Liz 357, 49 armies
Trapped 421

 

[vmxa]

The end:

Spoiler :

1960AD:
another flip, I am a bit surprise that these size 1 towns not near the borders would flip. I will have to pay attention to see if it was a resister. I abandon and replaced it and will do that to any towns in resistance.

They have no planes or ships. I note they have not made any tanks or MI is some time, so probably no oil.

Settler 2
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
inf 7
tank 131
MI 117
arty 2
jet 6
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 137
sam 3
towns 15 Liz 372, 50 armies
Trapped 394 (under 400

Another start up for the Project. I guess I captured the last one. No matter as they could never finish it in time and I spotted the only Uranium they have and would take it, if they did.

I have cleared all the tundra and pushed them into the upper NE area. Got a number of wonders, which will or have been scrapped. I have so many empty armies now. I think I will shutdown all tank builds and sell of the last of the factories as it is just more work to fly them over and attack the trapped units.

I am just going to let them rot till the last towns goes up in smoke. I have filled in the entire land mass other than what is held by them. I left the tiny island empty, but it has troops on it to prevent any landings.

No one ever learn Sanitation, which I do have a lone scientist working on. They are down 12 techs still. All of their wonders are gone now and I think they only have dyes.

1961AD:
I steal plans for 86xx as I had so much money. I wanted to locate a settler I caught a flash of and as it would happen. It was right next to one of my towns and I did not need to have the plans to find it.

I see two pop 1 towns are still resisting. I rush two settlers using some arties and will abandon and replace those creeps. I disband some RA's to rush a few temples as I want to expand to cover some of the mountains.
This is to prevent barb camps. I just do not need the hassle of finding them.

I see the AI has done its usual fine job of improving tiles as there is a fair amount of jungle and swamp after all this time.

I forgot to mention that the funny end of turn action stopped a few turns ago. I guess it was just an issue with the map size and units. It is now stopping at end of turn as it should. I have not seen this on games on
larger maps, but it could be due to the trapped units.

They had two tiles to consider moving back and forth, which they did a few times. Normally if I trap like this it is one tile, so no moves are available. Just a guess. I did use the elite tanks to hit the trap units, but none of the vets. Those I just stick in an army. Did get another leader.

Settler 2
Marine 13
LB 3
Musket 2
Rifle 5
inf 7
tank 131
MI 117
arty 2
jet 6
MDI 3
Guer 1
crusader 9
tow 137
sam 3
towns 6 Liz 384, 51 armies
Trapped 385

I may end this on the next turn as they are down to 6 towns now. depends on if I can reach the last towns.

1962AD:
another crap town flip, I destroyed it.

1963AD:
The pain ends and all are gone. If not for the Labs, I would have had to hold Spain hostage till the last turn.

As it was they still had me doubled for almost the whole game. I could have worked harder to prevent that sooner, but no need.

 

[Taras Bulba]

thank you VERY VERY much. I'll see if I can turn this game around.

That is probably something that I need to fix, as I always play on Huge maps. Since I am coming from lower levels, and on lower levels its only fun if you play on the biggest maps, I've gotten into the habbit of ONLY playing on huge maps. I'll have to start trying out at the lower maps and slowly working my way up to the larger ones

 

[vmxa]

Huge maps are ok, as long as you are willing to put up with all the tedium involved. Conquest or Domination or UN or Space will take a long time and a lot of work.

The main reason I see for huge maps is to make the game a bit easier for the human. This is why you see them at Deity and Sid. I played a lot of Sid huge maps when I start that level.

Funny thing is tiny maps are easier as well on most levels. I think it is because the game was develop for std maps. Maybe I need a newer computer with more L2 cache. I think that would speed up the long late turns.

It would do little for the tediousness and the labor. No matter how you slice it killing off hundreds of units takes work. Management of thousands of tiles is work and moving all those workers take effort and time.

That map had a giant mountain range that I never got a road on all of them, nearly though. I still had a lot of hills onthe mainland without rails. I did get all the tundra finished and with trees.

The other land had a lot left to do, but they did get a fair amount of the tiles railed. Was the age 3byo? The older setting should give fewer mountains.