How do I use Loki?

[brainpan]

I'm just getting more confused. I don't think Loki can attack. Can he?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I didn't think so (thats why I said when he is attacked instead of attacks), but I guess I could be wrong. I still don't see why you would try to get Loki more xp. Its completely useless, and deprives your other units of xp that could actually be used for something.

I think that the charm person spell does take the combat promotions of the caster in to account when deciding if it will work, but there is no way (without cheating) to make Loki any better at casting it.

 

[phoulishwan]

An early Loki is a devastating tool against any civ you happen to decide to apply pressure to in a marathon/epic game. A new city or even an old city with 0 culture that you find spend some turns in their city bringing it to negative culture so it has no workable tiles and it's essentially turned into a useless cash drain of a city until it builds a monument unless it's on a plains hill that is going to be a long time depending on your speed settings. Loki is far more deadly in a marathon/epic game than on quick/normal. Plus he gives you a huge meta gaming advantage...you can see what the city is building, as well as all the knowledge from the city building view (gpt, science %, etc) as well as giving you knowledge of what they're researching. This is some pretty valuable knowledge for a tech trading strat for such an early time period. Lots of Artists, yes...so lots of culture bombs and settled artists to make a culture victory quite easy with what is the single most culutrally oriented civ in FFH2. Double the options for cages makes for a substantial amount of base culture which is otherwise quite difficult to get in FFH2 without building lots of wonders, along with tons of happiness, may as well go Leaves to make HUGE cities, seeing as the Leaves Religious Wonder requries an Artist to build, I guess you're all set. I think the Balseraphs are arguably one of the most powerful starting civs around.

 

[Copper Golem]

An early Loki is a devastating tool against any civ you happen to decide to apply pressure to in a marathon/epic game. A new city or even an old city with 0 culture that you find spend some turns in their city bringing it to negative culture so it has no workable tiles and it's essentially turned into a useless cash drain of a city until it builds a monument unless it's on a plains hill that is going to be a long time depending on your speed settings. Loki is far more deadly in a marathon/epic game than on quick/normal. Plus he gives you a huge meta gaming advantage...you can see what the city is building, as well as all the knowledge from the city building view (gpt, science %, etc) as well as giving you knowledge of what they're researching. This is some pretty valuable knowledge for a tech trading strat for such an early time period. Lots of Artists, yes...so lots of culture bombs and settled artists to make a culture victory quite easy with what is the single most culutrally oriented civ in FFH2. Double the options for cages makes for a substantial amount of base culture which is otherwise quite difficult to get in FFH2 without building lots of wonders, along with tons of happiness, may as well go Leaves to make HUGE cities, seeing as the Leaves Religious Wonder requries an Artist to build, I guess you're all set. I think the Balseraphs are arguably one of the most powerful starting civs around.

That’s right. Not always, but usually, when I am playing Balseraphs, Loki captures me more cites than I build at the start and of course He is Very useful if you want to destroy this small town which your “friends” build in heart of you empire.

Also, I didn’t see it in the forum and maybe it was there, but I’ll write it here:

“small notes about cultural wars”: As I found game don’t reconsider cultural border every turn, but make check if one of the cites grow on culture or person (great bard, prophet etc) sacrificed to add culture for the city. Also, this check is never negative, so if add culture to your city his cultural borders would never fade but grow or stay still (if foreign city have Really STRONG culture counter).
So adding 3-5 prophets to the city could move you cultural borders with rather unnatural power. (I think it is a spoiler, because prophets (and similar units) utilizing same game mechanics as Great Bards)

 

[oyzar]

So is it just me or is loki almost useless in mp(cept for the spells). Same for gypsy wagons.. Won't they just be guarded off by warriors after declaring war(he can't attack and don't have strength for it anyways...).

 

[Grey Fox]

So is it just me or is loki almost useless in mp(cept for the spells). Same for gypsy wagons.. Won't they just be guarded off by warriors after declaring war(he can't attack and don't have strength for it anyways...).

Well he got Charm Person, Dance of Blades and Dispel Magic, and can't be killed (except if stationed in cities or cornered).

And if you delete him, or get him killed you can build an early Shrine of the Champion. Which gives your city +5 Culture, +3 Prophet GPP, +1 Free promotion on units built in the city. Sure you can do this with other heroes, but since Loki can't attack, this is a valid option.

 

[mipe]

You should try to rush Loki, so when the time you get Loki, your closest enemies still are building settlers, wait and follow the settler that comes and when settler makes city, if no cultural leader = you will get the city before enemy builds any other buildings.

 

[oyzar]

But aren't he like the big thing for balseraphs so they are rather useless in mp? It seems to me the only thing they can do are AI exploits... They get a spellcaster that can't be killed(though not with too good spells) and the harlequin...

 

[Grey Fox]

Nah, I think Balseraph work fine without ever using Loki.

The freaks, Insane trait (nice early mages if Perpentachs traits doesn't change too early), Summoner Keelyn. Best Cultural civ. Bard spam is fun.

 

[oyzar]

Isn't cultural also rather useless in mp though? Anyone worth their salt will notice it and attack the person going for it no? I guess i overlooked freaks. What exactly is so good about them?

 

[Grey Fox]

They start mutated. Which means they can get many good promotions if you're lucky. And they upgrade to both the melee and recon line.

And culture is nice for land grab and defense in MP.

 

[Ecofarm]

Loki is useless in MP (unless you consider an adept who cannot get xp with 2 movement to be a useful hero). How an AI allows him to sit in a city and does not declare war to kick him out is beyond me.

However:

Freak (mutated for str, mobility, etc, etc, etc)
+
Arena for 5-10xp
+
Upgraded to harl
+
Upgraded to druid
=
Mutated Druid with 5-10xp able to summon pit beast and cast dominate after 2 promos each mana. And, of course, nature spells. And, perhaps, with song (nature for affinity).
+
Kithra
+
Yvain
=
ftw

Oh yea, and
+3 taskmasters, +3-6 harls for casting charm, dispel, and blade and serving as an alarm/fodder

I use Kandros with Bals (unrestricted leaders).
Tech path: education\writing\festivals\mystic\fellowship\bronze\hidden\commune\poisons (upgrade taskmasters from scouts who have survived the arena a couple times)
Everyone promotes mobility to move 3 - kithra, yvain, druids, baron, harls, tasks
Note: bards can lightbulb hidden before and commune after drama, and create song

 

[thewyrm]

I never play civ multiplayer, but against the cpu Loki is crazy powerful. I actually get this sick sense of glee watching him spread his madness from city to city. Leaving the residents with fever dreams and begging for more. The true art of conquest: making your enemies long to be you.

 

[Caradoc]

Would it be possible to mod Loki to be able to enter Barbarian cities?

 

[Darkheart]

Would it be possible to mod Loki to be able to enter Barbarian cities?

You could use unrestricted leaders Jonas or the Dov guy (sorry name eludes me).

 

[thewyrm]

My Loki was killed by a Gorilla last night. Lame.

 

[Darkheart]

I did here of a really useful use for loki. Though I'm not sure it hasn't been fixed.

Assuming you can keep loki alive til then, find Acheron and with his 100% withdrawl chance use him to pull said dragon into neighbouring players heartland. It really does fit Loki's flavour!

Edit: It could also work with Orthus, which I think is a lot more viable, if less impressive. It also guarantees you the axe grab when Big O pans.

 

[xienwolf]

Acheron cannot move anymore, so it doesn't work on him.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Loki is definitely useful even for MP. An invincible scout is definitely a menace, since you can essentially build whatever units counter your enemy's. And since MP games are about building an effective stack in a short time, you have to gear your entire economy towards that purpose, which means you can't switch even if you know your enemy saw everything.

Plus, there's always the culture drain irritation. Chopping obliesks and/or getting a missionary to follow every settler for the religious culture is lots of wasted hammers.

 

[xienwolf]

And the only counter to having to do that is to DoW on the Balseraph, but maintaining a war all game long can hurt your happiness