How do you handle this type of start?

Cool, I'll give this a try tonight. Looking at the pic, moving the settler one square SE would be an ok place to found, but I think that first I'll move the worker onto the hill to the west. That'll give a good view of a lot of squares near the river. If there's any food over there, that's where the settler will go.

 

I'm thinking worker to the hill to the W, then depending on what the worker sees, maybe move the settler to the hill to the S.

OTOH, if the W hill is on the river, I may move the settler there. Hard to tell if W hill is on the river until I can right click the terrain.

 

OK, I did the little challenge. I played until 1500 BC, which is 60 turns, because 2500 BC is only 30 turns and not much time to get anywhere at all. I followed the strategy I described before: 1 settler then 2 granaries. I ended up with 4 cities, two granaries, one barracks, 9 warriors, 1 vet spearman, 5 workers, two settlers almost ready and two barracks on the way, lots of terrain improvements, good maps of the continent, and near tech parity. Anyway, here are my results. (spoilers of course for anyone else who wants to try)

Screenshot at 1500 BC
Final save

 

I'm going to try myself, later on. I'll just wait until more people go.

 

I agree with this, and often you can find a good place for a settler factory for your second or third city. Also, IMO building a granary in a city that only produces 2 extra food is not worth it.

Though I have not tried this, you could also consider beelining your tech research for monarchy to get away from the penalties of despotism. You might be able to do this fast enough to help your expansion, and get a few more settlers from your capital city by irrigating some of those grassland tiles.

Regarding the test game, I suggest that you "retire" the game at 1500 BC to find out how long it took each of you to get to that point.

At emperor, I think it is not that unusual to be dead last when you finally meet all the civs. And I am pretty sure that I wouldn't bet on any AI's playing against me at emperor level if I had an average start like you are showing.

So to answer your question - I tough it out. As nullspace suggested, make the best of what you have - adapt strategy to the conditions. I wish I could be more specific.

 

I don't understand....

 

I tried the exercise last night thru 1000 BC, and got OK (but not spectacular) results. My approach was similar to the discussions above, although I opted to build the granary before building my first settler. My initial moves were worker W (hill) and settler S (hill). No bonus food discovered, so I founded Istanbul on that spot (river/coast/3 BGs/forests). Build order was W=>W=>W=>Granary=>Settler. My thinking was to get the Ws out exploring to find a good settler factory spot, and to make contacts for tech brokering opportunities. I debated building the first settler prior to granary, but the long-term productivity of Istanbul is much higher if I build the granary first (more shields in the long-run). This may have been the wrong choice, but then again I didn't find the nearby cow and BGs to the E until fairly late (I should have taken one extra step exploring in that direction -- based on the mini-map I assumed it was a dead end).

My warriors found a very nice spot to the SW (river site with FP/wheat/sugar/tobacco all within city boundaries). My first settler didn't come out until 2630BC (turn 29), which is 8 turns later than it would have been without building the granary first. I sent it on the long (9 turns) trek to the river site, escorted by a W. In retrospect it would have been better to send it to the nearby cow, but I was afraid the Aztecs would claim the other site first and I knew I could claim the cow site. Next builds from Istan. were archer (6 turns & time to grow back to size 3) => settler (4 turns) => rax (7 turns). Thereafter Istanbul focused on military builds alternating with workers, with an occasional settler. At size 5 it will produce a nice 10 spt (sword every 3 turns).

Our second city (Edrine) was founded by the FP river/wheat/sugars in 2230BC (turn 39), build Wa => Wk => settlers (no granary needed with all that food). The third city (Bursa) built in was built by the cow in 2030BC (turn 44), build order W => granary => settler. Both Bursa and Edrine are capable of a settler each 5-6 turns (average of about 3 turns per settler). Bursa can be boosted to +4 food per turn, but not until an irrigation project from Istanbul's river is completed.

By 1000BC I had just 6 cities, but with a set-up for some fairly rapid growth. We had 4 workers, 5 warriors (iron hooked up = future swords), 4 archers, 1 sword and 2 curraughs. All new cities build rax => swords. Once the expansion phase is done the Ottoman empire should be well positioned for the conquest of our continent. We are still weak compared to other known civs however, and behind in techs. We have 111 gold with 2 gpt coming in. Regarding techs, I had less success with tech brokering in this exercise than I normally experience, although the position is still playable (we will get maths in 23 turns, hopefully as a monopoly tech).

 

Looks pretty good Bigfoot.

Here's my results:

Well, I finished with 5 cities and one to be built next turn. I made the approach with no granaries. The AIs all had 6 or 7 cities.

4000 BC: Move worker on western hill. Move settler to eastern forest.

3950 BC: Move worker back to grassland west of settler. Found Istanbul, begin on warrior. Start researching Alphabet.

3900 BC: Worker begins road.

3800 BC: Worker begins mine.

3700 BC: Warrior is completed in the mid-turn. Begin another warrior. Send warrior to southwestern road.

3600 BC: Worker completes mine; moves to next bonus grassland.

3550 BC: Worker starts road.

IBT: Warrior completed, begin on another.

3500 BC: Fortify warrior for next turn (city grows to size 2).

IBT: Borders expand and I see a cow to the northeast. Worker finishes road.

3450 BC: Move worker to build road toward cow (for next city). I don't want to mine the BG because I would produce to many shields to be able to produce a settler without wasting any.

3400 BC: Worker begins road. The growth and the production of the warrior is timed so I can finish the settler in 9 turns.

IBT: Warrior -> settler (8 turns, growth in 8)

3350 BC: Warrior heads to the northwest.

3300 BC: Worker finishes road and moves.

3250 BC: Worker begins road.

3150 BC: Worker finshes road and moves. Settler in 4. Contact the Aztecs, they already have 1 city. Make a trade with them (masonry for warrior code and 10 gold).

3100 BC: Worker begins road.

3000 BC: Worker finishes road and moves back two squares and starts irrigating (to get irrigation to the cow). Settler in 1.

IBT: Settler -> spearmen.

2950 BC: Settler gets to its city spot in 1 turn rather than 3 or 4 turns (will be able to settle next turn).

2900 BC: Found Edrine (begins on warrior).

2850 BC: Worker finshes irrigating and moves to next square and begins irrigating.

2710 BC: Worker finishes irrigating, moves to unroaded cow. Contact the Inca, they have 1 city also. The Aztecs now have 2 cities.

IBT: Finish researching alphabet, start on writing (40 turns). Edrine completes warrior, begins on settler.

2670 BC: Worker begins irrigating.

IBT: Istanbul completes spearmen. Begins on warrior.

2630 BC: Trade alphabet to Inca for pottery, ceremonial berial, and ten gold.

2550 BC: Worker finishes irrigation, starts on road.

2510 BC: Istanbul finishes warrior and begins on settler.

2470 BC: Worker finshes road, moves to BG being worked by Edrine and starts mine.

2310 BC: Worker finishes mine and moves to begin road to third city spot.

IBT: Edrine: settler -> settler.

2270 BC: Worker begins road and settler moves towards the northwest of Istanbul.

2190 BC: Worker finishes road and begins mine. Found Bursa. Begins warrior.

IBT (2150 BC): Istanbul finishes settler. Begin on a spearmen.

2110 BC: Move settler to the southwest.

2030 BC: Found Iznik. Worker completes mine. Moves to a square that will be worked by Istanbul and begins another mine. Edrine builds another settler in 3 turns.

IBT: Bursa: warrior -> warrior.

IBT (1950 BC): Edrine builds settler, begins on another settler.

1870 BC: Worker finishes mine.

IBT: Istanbul: spear -> spear. Bursa: warrior -> worker. Iznik: warrior -> warrior.

1830 BC: Worker begins roading square being worked by Iznik.

1750 BC: Worker finishes road, begins mine. Change Bursa to produce a warrior instead of a worker. Found Uskadar, begin worker.

IBT: Finish writing. Start on philosophy. Bursa: warrior -> settler.

1725 BC: The AIs won't trade jack for writing.

IBT (1700 BC): Istanbul: spear -> warrior. Iznik: warrior -> settler.

1650: Worker finishes mine, moves.

IBT: Istanbul: warrior -> settler.

1625: Worker begins road.

IBT: Edrine: settler -> settler.

1575 BC: Worker begins mine.

IBT (1525 BC): Uskudar: worker -> worker.

1500 BC: END

Well, I finished with 5 cities and one to be built next turn. I made the approach with no granaries. The AIs all had 6 or 7 cities.

 

Right, I just had a go myself:

4000BC: Worker SW, nothing to report. Settler W onto Hill.
3950BC: Found Istanbul on hill, start warrior, Pottery @ Max (15 turns), worker mines.
3900BC-3800BC: zzz
3750BC: worker roads
3700BC: Istanbul Wa->Wa, Wa SW
3650BC: Worker NE, won't bother with Wa or Wo moves from now on.
3500BC: Ist Wa->Wa
3450BC: Ist grows, Gov is on by default?! Darn, move Clown to BG and Lux up to 10%. Sci down to 80%.
3350: Wa->Ba, bit of a pre-build for Granary (Pottery in 1 though), Wa will be for MP. Lux down to 0. Meet Aztecs, don't watch what I'm doing and trade Masonry for Pottery+10g! I had Pottery next turn anyway! Still they're broke, but won't trade me BW. Ist Ba->Gran. IW @ 10% in 50.
3100BC: Worker finishes chopping, shaves 2 turns off Granary. Switch Citizen to Forest for growth 1 after Granary finishes.
2850BC: Gran->Sett
2800BC: Ist grows, Lux to 10%, swtich Citizen from forest to newly mined+roaded BG.
2590: Ist Set->Set, Lux to 0, head Sett down towards FP wheat.
2390: Edrine founded, starts Wa. Lux back @ 10% as Ist has grown.
2350: Ist Set->Wa. Set2 towards cow/fish. Edr Wa->Wo, more important this early.
2310: Meet Inca+America, no trading.
2270: Oops, Lux back 10 0%.
2190: Ist Wa->Set, Lux % 30% for Edr. Found Bursa, another oops, should've used the BG for the Whales? Starts worker.
2030: Buy CB for 100g from Lincoln. Really need the culture in Edr as there are no shields! Switch worker->temple, will rush at Pop 3.
1750: Founded Iznik, now Edr can work BG & Mined Grass for 2 shields - switched from temple to Set.
1625: Ist Set->Wa, missed some unhappiness last turn, oops.
1550: Edr Set->wa, was disease so just as well it was size 4.
1525: Ist Set->Wa, Uskadar founded, starts Wa.
1500BC screen:


So that's 5 cities, 1 settler, 1 granary, 7 warriors, 3 workers.

Save attached. 1000BC is likely to be not too bad.

Neil.

 

Hmm, it seems like everyone else has more cities than me at 1500 BC. But I've got more workers, terrain improvements, and city improvements. I really don't know which is better, since my idea was to build some strong core cities (which I did) and then use them to quickly fill up the area between me and the Aztecs with cities. I didn't get a chance to do that before 1500 BC. I also ignored the wheat/floodplains tile. It just seemed to me that that spot would have plenty of food, but not enough production and bad corruption and waste. It looks like the other players made good use of it, though.

 

That start isn't so bad; I have seen worst. Anyway, I would move my worker SW first. If i see a cow or deer, I may move my settler South. Otherwise, I would settle at the starting location.

 

I would think it would be better to try and build as many cities as you can because you have plenty of time to fill them with improvements, but not plenty of time to fill the land with cities.

 

On the main menu at the top left of the screen you can choose an option to retire from the game. It will then go through all the regular end of game stuff and rate your performance. As you know one of the things it tells you is how long you have played.

If you want you can play back the game and see where and when the AI's put up their cities.

I don't do this mid-game but I thought since you were running an experiment it might be a good idea to see how long it took everyone to get to their stopping point.

Does this help?

 

Yes, thanks. Well, should I or somebody esle put up another start to mess around with?

 

1500bc



My stats:
Turn 60 1500
4 cities
5 warriors
1 spear
2 workers
1 barracks
1 temple
2 granaries
2 workers

Turn 0 4000
Settler moves W to hill
Worker moves S to Hill
Wasted the worker turn
I’ll settle on the hill & work the BG

Turn 1 3950
Settle on the hill
Worker moves to mine BG
Start a warrior build
Select Math @ 10%

Turn 2 3900
Mine

Turn 3 3850
Mine

Turn 4 3800

Turn 5 3750

Turn 6 3700
Warrior goes off to scout

Turn 7 3650

Turn 8 3600
Road finished.
Move to begin another mine

Turn 9 3550
2nd warrior done

Turn 10 3500

Turn 11 3450
Sliders to 10/10

Turn 12 3400

Turn 13 3350
Third warrior done

Turn 14 3300

Turn 15 3250
4th warrior done

Turn 16 3200
Meet Aztecs & get 10 gold + pottery for Masonry

Turn 17 3150

Turn 18 3100

Turn 19 3050
Killer site for a wonder city N of the capital. Normally I don’t build the Glib, but with that many BG’s I just might.

Turn 20 3000

Turn 21 2950

Turn 22 2900
Somewhere around here I moves to irrigate the plains

Turn 23 2800

Turn 24 2750
Granary done, build a barracks

Turn 25

Turn 26 2710
Spot purple borders
Start road on irrigated plains

Turn 27 2670
Meet Inca. No reason to buy warrior code for 127g + 1gpt, so no trades.

Turn 28 2630
Don’t see any nearby luxuries. I guess that means we’ll have coal, saltpeter, oil, iron & horses.

Turn 29 2590

Turn 30 3500
Barracks done – start the spear / settler rotation

I’ll follow nullsoft's lead & play to 1500 to see what I can do.

Turn 32 2470
Just discovered a major league dumb Play. I intended to research a second tier tech and selected math, overlooking the fact I did not have alphabet. What a doofus!

Turn 60 1500
4 cities
5 warriors
1 spear
2 workers
1 barracks
1 temple
2 granaries
2 workers

No luxuries. I plan to eventually play this out since I have not played the Ottomans in a Long time. I’m anxious to see what others did so I can learn from you guys.

 

So what do you guys think would have been the best approach for that start (maybe yours didn't go how you wanted it to)?

 

My thinking was the opposite. I felt it was more important to get a strong core of large, low-corruption cities that had barracks. These could build swordsmen, rather than settlers. If the Aztecs build some cities between their core and mine, that's OK, those cities would be corrupt for me or for him. I'll be able to capture them easily enough when we fight. Besides, every settler he builds is a military unit that he doesn't build.

Oh well, it works for my strategy. If you intend to avoid war, I can see how grabbing all the land you can ASAP would be better. But in my strategy, a swordsman is better than a size 1 corrupt city.

 

Hi, this was an interesting topic, so I thought I'd have a go myself. In order to make a comparison, I also played my game until 1000BC. I forgot to take a screenshot though , but I'll edit this post later when I've got one. Until then, you can have a report on how I did, and here's a copy of the game:

Civ 3 Save

At 1000 BC I have 8 cities, 10 technologies, reasonable defences, and a good number of archers. I also have a settler ready to build a new city within a few turns.

--- Report ---

4000 BC – I moved the worker one square southwest and didn’t find any special resources. I founded Istanbul on the starting location. Istanbul is building a warrior, and I’m researching Pottery at 100%.

3950 BC – My worker is building a mine.

3750 BC – My worker completes the mine, so I start building a road. My warrior has been completed. I leave Istanbul building another warrior and send the warrior north to explore.

3650 BC – My worker finishes the road, so I move it two squares northeast to the opposite side of the city.

3600 BC – My worker begins building another mine. My warrior has reached the north shore and is now heading west. I’ll build another city on this square later.

3550 BC – My second warrior is completed. This one moves south to begin exploring. Istanbul will build a third warrior.

3500 BC – My culture has expanded my borders. Istanbul also increased to size 2. I increase my Luxuries rating to 20% and lower Science to 80%. I put the second citizen to work on the square where my worker is constructing a mine. The first warrior will continue to follow the coast around to the west. My second warrior reaches the south shore, and will follow it to the west from now on.

3400 BC – Istanbul completes the third unit of warriors, which will remain on defence. I allow it to construct a fourth unit of warriors. The worker completes my second mine and begins another road. Istanbul will now grow in 8 turns. It will take 2 turns to build a warrior and 6 to build a settler. I return my Science rate to 100% so that Pottery will be completed next turn.

3350 BC – I researched Pottery and decided to go after Ceremonial Burial next.

3300 BC – Istanbul completes the fourth warrior unit, which will head east to explore. Construction of a settler will begin. The worker finished the road and moved one square north. I reduce Science to 90% so that I can afford the unit.

3250 BC – The worker begins a road. The new warrior finds some cows.

3150 BC – The worker completes the road and moves northwest.

3100 BC – The worker begins building another road. My new warrior finished exploring to the east, and finds the area uninhabited. A change of plan: I’ll build my new city one square southeast of the cows. The warrior heads there to defend it.

3000 BC – The worker finishes the road, and moves south, southwest and southeast. Istanbul completes the settler and begins construction of a granary. The settlers move northeast and east towards the new city site. Science is reduced to 60%.

2950 BC – The worker begins clearing the forest.

2900 BC – The two warriors begin moving inland from the coast to explore the middle of the continent.

2850 BC – Edrine is founded and begins construction of settlers.

2800 BC – The workers clear the forest and move northeast to begin a new road to Edrine.

2750 BC – We discover Ceremonial Burial and begin researching Iron Working. Science is once again increased to 100%.

2630 BC – The first two warriors meet in the middle. One turns west to continue exploring and the other heads east to my next city site.

2550 BC – The worker finishes the road to Edrine and moves northeast to the cow.

2510 BC – The worker begins a mine.

2430 BC – Edrine completes the Spearman and begins work on a settler.

2390 BC – Istanbul completes the Granary, and begins a new settler. The settler and growth will coincide at 6 turns. Science is reduced to 90% to pay for the Granary.

2350 BC – The worker completes the mine and begins a road.

2270 BC – The worker completes the road and moves one square southwest to begin a new mine.

2150 BC – Istanbul completes a settler and begins work on a spearman. The settler moves northeast, north and northwest.

2110 BC – The worker completes the mine and moves back towards Istanbul.

2070 BC – Edrine builds a settler and begins work on an archer. Science is lowered to 80% to pay for the units. The settler and warrior escort are sent towards Istanbul. The warrior moves southwest and west. Bursa is founded and begins construction of a spearman.

2030 BC – The workers begin constructing a road. The settler and escort move to occupy the same square.

1990 BC – The settlers move west.

1950 BC – The settlers move west again. We discover Iron Working and begin on The Wheel. Our exploring warriors are ordered to head to the iron deposits to keep watch for signs of enemy colonization.

1910 BC – The settlers move west again. Istanbul builds a spearman and begins on settlers.

1870 BC – The workers complete the road and move west. The settlers move southwest.

1830 BC – Iznik is founded and begins to construct spearmen. Edrine builds archers and begins on settlers. The worker begins a new road.

1700 BC – Istanbul completes settlers and begins work on archers. The settlers are sent along the road towards the workers. The workers complete the road and move west. Bursa builds spearmen and begins work on archers. The warrior at Bursa, heads northwest to finish exploring the dark area.

1675 BC – The settlers head southwest. The worker begins a road.

1650 BC – The settlers head south.

1625 BC – The settlers head south again. The workers complete the road and head west. Edrine completes settlers and begins work on more spearmen. The settlers from Edrine are sent towards Istanbul with the existing spearmen as an escort. We also discover The Wheel and begin work on Alphabet.

1600 BC – The worker begins the last part of the road to Iznik. The Istanbul settlers head southwest. The Edrine settlers move southwest twice and then south.

1575 BC – Both bands of settlers take a step southwest. Istanbul completes archers and begins work on more spearmen.

1550 BC – The Istanul settlers found Uskudar and begin some spearmen. The Edrine settlers move south. The worker completes the road and begins a mine. The warrior exploring to the north will remain on the mountain on ‘barbarian watch’.

1525 BC – Bursa completes archers and begins building some more. The Edrine settlers found Izmit and begin working on archers.

1500 BC – Our borders expand at Istanbul.

1475 BC – Istanbul completes spearmen and begins working on settlers. A citizen is moved from the “2 Food, 1 Commerce” grassland to the “1 Food, 2 Shield, 1 Commerce” forest next to the river. Edrine completes spearmen and start work on archers. The Istanbul spearmen head towards Iznik on the road.

1450 BC – Iznik completes spearmen and begins work on archers. The Istanbul spearmen move west twice and south once. The worker completes the mine and moves south.

1425 BC – The workers begin a road and the spearmen head south.

1400 BC – The spearmen head south.

1375 BC – The workers finish the road and move southwest. The spearmen head southeast into Uskudar. Uskudar’s production is changed to archers. We discover Alphabet and begin work on Writing.

1350 BC – Istanbul completes settlers and begins on spearman. The settlers are sent with a spearman escort along the road to Iznik. Edrine builds archers and begins work on settlers. Bursa completes archers and begins work on workers. Both new archers head along the road to Iznik. The worker begins building a road.

1325 BC – The settlers move two squares west and one south. The archers continue along the road.

1300 BC – The Aztecs have built a city on my intended spot. An Aztec warrior that ‘stumbled’ onto my road blocks the archers’ path. The archers wait for one turn, as their movement will be faster if they use the road next turn. The settlers and escort move into Iznik for protection. The worker completes a road and begins work on a new mine.

1275 BC – Iznik completes archers, and begins work on a temple. The archers head one square northeast and join the other archers that make it along the road.

1250 BC – The archers head south and southwest twice. The spearman escort moves south to guard the workers from a nearby Aztec warrior. Bursa completes a worker, which moves south and begins constructing a mine. Bursa begins work on a temple.

1225 BC – Istanbul completes spearmen and begins work on new archers. My band of three archers heads southwest again. The spearmen fortify on the worker square.

1200 BC – Edrine builds settlers and begins work on spearmen. The settlers move with a spearman escort towards Istanbul. The three archers move southwest again into Aztec terriroty. The Aztec city is defended by archers at best. The southern workers complete the mine and along with the spearmen escort move southeast one square. Izmit produces archers and begins work on workers. The warriors protecting the iron move towards Uskudar.

1175 BC – The Aztecs told me to ‘get out of dodge’, but we refused and are at war. The archers in the city didn’t attack us. The warriors took a step closer to our archers and are within one square. Our first archer destroyed the Aztec city and got promoted. The second killed the warrior and also got promoted. The third moved southwest to the Aztec city square, providing cover for the first archer, who took a bruise. The settlers in Iznik moved south, and the spearmen protecting the workers moved northwest to occupy the same square. The workers began constructing a road. The warriors moved into Uskudar for extra defence.

1150 BC – The archers that killed the Aztec warriors moved west towards the others. The other two fortified where they are. The Bursa workers finished the mine and began a new one to the southeast. The settlers moved southwest. The other settlers near Istanbul continued along the road to Iznik.

1125 BC – The settlers near Iznik moved southwest again. The others moved south and southwest twice, putting them nearby. The archers moved into a stack. The workers finished the road and moved southeast. Istanbul produced archers, which are moving towards Iznik. Istanbul will produce more settlers, but looks likely to grow first (causing disorder). I moved a citizen from the grassland back to the forest as before. Iznik will not finish the temple in time either, so one of the citizens working the grassland will become a scientist.

1100 BC – Izmit produced a worker and began work on a curragh. The worker headed north one square. The Istanbul archer moved west twice and south. One settler group went south, and the other headed west.

1075 BC – We discovered Writing and began looking into Mathematics. The Istanbul archers moved southwest twice. The settlers moved south and west as before. The Izmit workers began a road. Edrine finished spearmen and began work on workers.

1050 BC – Uskudar went into disorder (oops). The Istanbul archers headed west. The settler bands continued their movement. The southern band went southwest and the other group went west again. The southern group has seen some spearmen, so the stacked archers moved south. The Iznik workers moved northwest three times, and the Bursa workers headed northwest twice. In order to complete Bursa’s temple before the city grows, I moved some citizens to a forest.

1025 BC – The Aztec spearmen (and settler) moved north past my archers, putting them at risk (should have fortified!). My settlers founded the cities of Aydin and Antalya. Both cities began constructing Walls (I’m here to stay!) One band of archers defeated the spearmen and captured the settlers. I moved the new slaves east and the other two archers southeast into Antalya. The Istanbul archers moved west, taking them close to Aydin. My Izmit workers finished the road and moved northwest. The Iznik workers began building a road, which will connect Aydin to my empire.

1000 BC – The Izmit workers began to build a road. Edrine completed the workers and began work on a temple. Istanbul completed settlers and also began to build a temple. The archers near Aydin moved in for defence and the others are heading in that direction too. The Aztec slaves began building a road. The Istanbul settlers headed northeast, north and northwest. The warriors to the north will provide defence, so no escort is being sent. The Edrine workers moved northeast. I also made peace with the Aztecs. It looks as if they would have parted with the city of Malinalco too, but I had no idea where it was or what it was like. I also felt that a better deal for them may improve relations a bit more.

 

WOW, you believe that is a bad start ? :S

there are 3 things i look for in a start:
-few useless tiles (march, mountain, desert)
-river
-food bonus

You got 2 out of 3, very good score !

Nice start for emperor or below (deity/sid i only start playing if i have each of those 3)

 

I know what makes a good starting location, but I enjoy a challenge. Once I began a game on a peninsula. Within two tiles of me, I had 8 tiles that were a mix of grassland/plains, 2 hills and a mountain. The rest of the peninsula was jungle. After exploring, I found that the Zulus had begun the game on a chokepoint at the top of the peninsula and there was no way out. It also hurt when I researched the wheel AND iron working and found no special resources nearby. The Zulus practically made us their b**ches until about 500AD when a Spanish boat arrived near my borders. I negotiated an alliance, paid lots of gold for tech and conquered the Zulus by the end of the game. I lost the histographic win because I had less points than my neighbours, but I felt I had achieved a small victory.