How do you think the AI will handle the new civs?

Crazyflyinpanda

Chieftain
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Aug 6, 2012
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I'm just wondering what everyone thinks the AI will be able to do with the new civs in BNW. I'll start off by listing one I think will dominate consistently, one that is a question mark, and one that will consistently be a pushover. Admittedly my thoughts may not be as in depth as some peoples since I'm still getting used to the game a bit.

Brazil: ok this is partially dependent on if AI will retain the ridiculous amount of happy they can gain. If they still retain the current happy bonuses than I imagine Brazil will probably annex a lot of cities and be very difficult to catch up to in the culture race.

Shoshone: I honestly don't know what to think of this civ in the AI's hands. Part of me worries they'll expand incredibly fast and eat up land very quickly but the other part of me wonders if they'll be strong enough to hold it if they start off near a warmonger or have to fight on multiple fronts.

Poland: Don't know why but I have a feeling this civ will be mediocre in the AI's hands. Don't know why but I feel there just isn't enough there to help the AI compete in game.
 
I feel that when the AI becomes Assyria and is able to steal a tech from me it'll just take a useless tech when there's better options
 
I'd be shocked if the AI handles Venice well. On the other hand, I think a runaway AI will be even scarier if said AI is Assyria.
 
Civ AIs most likely to succeed:

Zulu - war

Brazil - culture


To fail:

Indonesia.

I agree, it may have been because of the difficulty but in all the games we've seen with Indonesia there is only one where they settled on a different island to get their bonus.
 
In general the simpler the mechanic the better the AI handles it.

It hasn’t handled siege devices particularly well in the past so I expect Assyria to be mid level

Zulu & Poland will probably be heavy warmonger and it should be fine.

Brazil is happiness based and the AI always seems happy so they will probably be strong.

I’m really not sure how well it will use trade I don’t expect it to have a humans rat cunning. Morocco, Portugal, Venice may suffer from choices .

Shoshone’s mechanics are pretty simple. I expect the AI to be strong here.

Indonesia is probably too complex for most humans initially. I expect the AI to really struggle to use their mechanics well.

They have probably tweaked things so the above could end up being wrong but it’s what I expect.
 
I imagine the AI struggling with Venice and Indonesia the most. The AI does best with the warmonders and unit spam civs...so they will be great with Zulu.
 
I feel like Shaka will be as bad with diplomacy as Montezuma but a little more military might to be considered more of a threat
 
I dunno, I see the AI being fairly competent with Venice - the AI is generally a dirtbag when it comes to City-States as is.
 
I feel that when the AI becomes Assyria and is able to steal a tech from me it'll just take a useless tech when there's better options

And you just know that AI Shoshone Pathfinders will love to reveal those barbarian encampments...

Strong AI civs:

Zulu (same reason as Germany).

Poland (AI likes to era-rush, free bonuses that don't need to be worked favour AI play).

Weak AI civs:

Venice (AI poor at naval combat and city capture, and at appropriately producing and using GPs. AI also struggles with smaller, tall playstyles).

Indonesia (we've seen why in screenshots. The AI doesn't make any effort to expand to other continents with its early cities, and based on experience with the game to date this is likely to be typical. It's unlikely to understand how to use the candi effectively).

Everything else I suspect will be inbetween. Brazil might be good, but only if the Brazilian AI can last to the late game in a strong position; it will struggle against aggressive players earlier. It may well need its extra Golden Ages to compete with human players' likely superior ability to exploit Great Works and theming bonuses (an AI that can't currently coordinate specialists is really going to struggle putting Great Works together in the right combinations).

Morocco is an AI-friendly civ, but relies on the AI making optimal use of the gold bonuses (which even now after patches is uncommon). Poor gold use will squander this ability far more than poor policy selection will squander Poland's. Portugal much the same, but arguably weaker and more reliant on the AI making better use of navies than it does now.

Assyria relies on city capturing and the AI making good decisions when presented with a tech choice - neither of which is a strong point (if this works like espionage in terms of tech gain, as it seems to, it's likely to use the same coding, and the AI's decision-making when stealing techs is atrocious).

The Shoshone are an unknown quantity - it's a civ that relies on situational awareness, and the the AI intuitively seems unlikely to exhibit the flexibility to exploit it, but at the same time it's unlikely to do anything drastically wrong with them because they don't demand a particularly specific playstyle. So the AI will probably use them moderately well, but may be more likely to underperform compared with a human Shoshone player than with many other civs.
 
Civs I see doing poorly:

Venice - AI can't handle tall civs unfortunately. The minute Venice gets into a war against a larger enemy, the Venice AI will want to sue for peace... by giving away its hard earned city states.

Zulu - Like Montezuma, a strong warmonger with a great unit. However, his capabilities for diplomacy seem limited. I expect him to fail less than Montezuma, but I expect if he is surrounded by several civs he will always lose badly

Poland - I am guessing Poland was programmed with a certain meekness level. As Poland has always typically been the butt of jokes, particularly in civ - I can't see the AI being programmed to be expansive for Poland.

Indonesia - Screenshots haven't been compelling at all. Civ doesn't expand nearly enough.

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I expect the following to do well:

Assyria - I expect it will be programmed to both expansive, science oriented, and a warmonger. Those 3 traits are the best traits to have for an AI and I expect it to be on the levels of Greece, Russia, Iroquois, as a threat.

Morocco - Gold doesn't ensure success, but it certainly helps the AI get the game up and going quicker and on higher levels Morocco will have way too much gold per turn. If the AI spams Kasbahs, other AI can get stuck in a +50% combat meatshredder. Add in their cavalry and they will be relatively immune to direct losses. AI bonuses means that food will help Morocco grow larger cities faster

Brazil - With the ridiculous happy and great person bonuses the AI gets, I don't think its unreasonable to see Brazil being a threat culturally. Brazil I expect will be programmed with an expansive nature, which automatically makes Brazil a threat as it will play more diplomatically than warmonger but have enough bonuses to do well in combat. It will be hard to bribe other civs to take out Brazil
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Not Sure Yet:
Shoshone - Its a mixed bag. THey could be incredibly aggressive or completely passive (depending if they focus more on the Shoshone or Comanche side). They could be incredibly expansive + their additional territory bonus/ or produce only a few cities. The AI's pathfinders may take random choices, negating the unique ability of the unit. It sounds like the Comanche rider, will be a kiting based unit... something the AI only does mediocrely at the moment.

Portugal - Its UI comes late. Will the AI sail workers across the globe to build feitorias? I sort of doubt it. Will it be incredibly expansive? Perhaps... but Maria the Mad isn't an AI leader you would trust to be a competitive leader
 
Indonesia and Venice will be bad. There is no way the AI will be able to handle the complicated and underwhelming UAs.
 
The leader of venice will be bad for the AI It can only keep up by spamming cities

imagine Enrico Dandolo saying this :
I couldn't help noticed that you expended near lands that are mine I advice you to discontinue.

BUT YOU CAN' TRADE SETTLERS YOU IDIOT
 
The leader of venice will be bad for the AI It can only keep up by spamming cities

imagine Enrico Dandolo saying this :
I couldn't help noticed that you expended near lands that are mine I advice you to discontinue.

BUT YOU CAN' TRADE SETTLERS YOU IDIOT

Oh God, this. :lol:
 
Great idea for a thread. I'm still kind of disappointed by how poorly the G&K AIs perform overall, so I'm hoping the BNW Civs will be a little better at playing the game.

Below is a summary, in vaguely strongest-to-weakest order, of how I think they will perform, with some rationalisation of my thoughts. Note that this is based off how the AI in G&K tends to behave in single-player King games, so I'm making a pretty big assumption that AI behaviour hasn't been tweaked at all. Things like Shaka and Ashurbanipal being aggressive should be givens, though.

Likely to be strong

The Zulu I think will be the biggest threat. At first I was reading them in the Montezuma-mould of a fail war-based AI, but I think they might be more like Germany, especially with the lower maintenance cost. Screenshots and reviews so far have shown that Shaka likes to attack City-States, which won't make him popular, so if he is too aggressive too early, he might get dogpiled and wiped out - a similar fate sometimes befalls Germany in my games.

Another strong performer should be Poland, with their seven free Social Policies and a pretty powerful-looking UU. We still don't really know exactly what role Social Policies will play, but since cherry-picking Policies does seem to be the way that part of the game is now played (and the AI loves to do that even now), I would expect to see Poland going for a lot of the Tree-opener Wonders. Casimir should also be able to develop his Ideology faster than other players, but I don't see him having much interest in culture or tourism, so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. He will probably like attacking his neighbours and going wide.

Assyria will be aggressive for sure, but a big part of how successful Ashurbanipal is will come down to whether he's aggressive against the right people (i.e. tech leaders). The Siege Tower suggests he will want to go to war early, and he should be a pro at capturing cities (insofar as the AI ever is). I can see him getting an early advantage and being able to take out his weaker neighbours by the Medieval Era - hopefully picking up some useful techs along the way. He could struggle in later eras though if his warmongering upsets other AIs.

Morocco should also do OK, seeing as their bonuses are largely passive (although part of this depends on how well the AI handles Trade Routes). I predict a relatively non-aggressive focus for the Civ, given the reliance on trade and defence, but they might get attacked by their neighbours. I don't think they will go super-wide, but their desert start bias might lead to some big cities (Salt, Flood Plains), and Ahmad will probably love to build Petra. They'll also be a pain in the bum to conquer, especially if they have Berber Cavalry sitting on Kasbahs (but then, does anyone trust an AI to put its units in the right place? :crazyeye: ).

Could go either way

The Shoshone will be land-grabbers and city-spammers extraordinaire, I expect, and presumably their defence bonus in friendly territory will make them hard to defeat. I think Pocatello will be an annoying opponent for the human player, although perhaps not a formidable one. I can see the AI being completely inept at using the Pathfinders to best effect - although they could be scary in the early game as neighbours, I think they might peter out in the mid-to-late game.

Portugal is an interesting one - on paper, they will be one of the most powerful new Civs in the player's hands, but I think they AI will stuff them up. The AI will most likely be useless at getting Feitorias built, so there goes one of their most powerful traits, but on the other hand, with Mare Clausum and the Nau, Maria won't have to work very hard to earn money, and wealthier AIs are usually the best performers (see Pachacuti and Harun). Again a lot of this depends on how good the AI will be at working with the new trade mechanics. At this point, since it rarely seems to struggle for money anyway, I don't believe that it can be trusted not to stick with domestic trade routes and wage war on its neighbours instead of trading with them. I do hope I'm wrong, however.

I haven't seen much discussion of New France here. I don't think we can expect Napoleon's personality to change very much (he is firmly in what I like to call the 'slicey' category at the moment), but I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up performing less well than at the moment. Assuming that Ancien Régime's +2 culture per city is going, his new UA does seem like a downgrade in AI terms (I don't really believe that the AI will be very good at theming its Great Works). We don't know enough about the Château to comment on how that will impact his game, but on the face of it, he's losing his easier culture acquisition from the start of the game (not to mention the Foreign Legion) and gaining something that, while nice from a human player POV, may not benefit him a great deal. Judgement reserved for now.

Brazil I am classing as mediocre-to-weak at the moment. They're clearly the cultural powerhouse of the expansion, and with the AI's happiness bonuses Pedro should be swimming in Great Artists, and should be able to bag a few Wonders as well. They should also be pretty resilient to outside Ideological pressures late-game. On the face of it, he could be the new Darius. So why the uncertainty? Well, partly the fact that AI in CiV generally doesn't have a great track record at managing Great People or timing Golden Ages well. Nor does Pedro's Carnival benefit his military in the way that Darius' does - the UU is so late as to be all but irrelevant in military terms. We have already seen some evidence of Pedro getting attacked and losing cities in screenshots from preview builds (OK, not the final game, but still) and I think he might struggle to stay alive.

Likely to be awful

For these, I don't much disagree with other posters' comments. Venice are almost guaranteed to be useless in the hands of the AI. Enrico will be forced to go on the offensive from the get-go, but apart from the Galleass, he gets no particular advantage towards capturing cities. I hope he at least has been programmed to appreciate the particular usefulness of the Merchant of Venice, and doesn't instead spam Custom Houses everywhere... but I'm not sure I believe that he will. He will probably be hyper-aggressive, spamming units when others are building Settlers, and unless he wins those early wars he will disappear fast.

Indonesia will also do badly, but then that's hardly a surprise - both Venice and Indonesia feel very much as though they have been designed to provide a fun and challenging playing experience for the human player rather than as challenging AI opponents. The AI most likely won't understand that it needs to build 3 cities on a different continent to get the bonus from its UA, and the Kris Swordsman is wildly unpredictable. Gajah Mada will most likely have an expansionistic and faith-favouring personality in an attempt to counterbalance the UA problem (if he builds enough cities, eventually some will be on different continents, right?) and this will lead to conflicts with other Civs. The Candi's faith boost will only really come into play late-game when there are lots of religions floating around.

As I said at the beginning, I'm making big assumptions regarding the state of the AI come BNW's release - so there's potential for most of this to be completely off the mark :crazyeye:
 
blackcatatonic

Good post, though I can imagine Assyria to go either way. My experience is that the AI usually go after the weakest AI player first, so I actually think that the Assyrian AI might have limited use for its UA. Though of course... since he's so militaristic he might fare well in AI hands, but Im not convinced he'll get much use of the UA.

I've got no idea what personality the Shaka AI will have, but though I get your point that he might be strong because of his reduced unit maintenance like Germany I think there might be a difference... Germany often expands a lot which combined with his UA makes the AI strong. And Bismarck, in my experience, doesnt attack city states unless there's no land to settle. If Zulu are more like Mongolia in that they will expand very slow, often attacking city states early I think they'll be weak. I've never seen a successful Mongolia actually. Everybody hates him before he's strong enough.
 
Great idea for a thread. I'm still kind of disappointed by how poorly the G&K AIs perform overall, so I'm hoping the BNW Civs will be a little better at playing the game.

Below is a summary, in vaguely strongest-to-weakest order, of how I think they will perform, with some rationalisation of my thoughts. Note that this is based off how the AI in G&K tends to behave in single-player King games, so I'm making a pretty big assumption that AI behaviour hasn't been tweaked at all. Things like Shaka and Ashurbanipal being aggressive should be givens, though.

Likely to be strong

The Zulu I think will be the biggest threat. At first I was reading them in the Montezuma-mould of a fail war-based AI, but I think they might be more like Germany, especially with the lower maintenance cost. Screenshots and reviews so far have shown that Shaka likes to attack City-States, which won't make him popular, so if he is too aggressive too early, he might get dogpiled and wiped out - a similar fate sometimes befalls Germany in my games.

Another strong performer should be Poland, with their seven free Social Policies and a pretty powerful-looking UU. We still don't really know exactly what role Social Policies will play, but since cherry-picking Policies does seem to be the way that part of the game is now played (and the AI loves to do that even now), I would expect to see Poland going for a lot of the Tree-opener Wonders. Casimir should also be able to develop his Ideology faster than other players, but I don't see him having much interest in culture or tourism, so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. He will probably like attacking his neighbours and going wide.

Assyria will be aggressive for sure, but a big part of how successful Ashurbanipal is will come down to whether he's aggressive against the right people (i.e. tech leaders). The Siege Tower suggests he will want to go to war early, and he should be a pro at capturing cities (insofar as the AI ever is). I can see him getting an early advantage and being able to take out his weaker neighbours by the Medieval Era - hopefully picking up some useful techs along the way. He could struggle in later eras though if his warmongering upsets other AIs.

Morocco should also do OK, seeing as their bonuses are largely passive (although part of this depends on how well the AI handles Trade Routes). I predict a relatively non-aggressive focus for the Civ, given the reliance on trade and defence, but they might get attacked by their neighbours. I don't think they will go super-wide, but their desert start bias might lead to some big cities (Salt, Flood Plains), and Ahmad will probably love to build Petra. They'll also be a pain in the bum to conquer, especially if they have Berber Cavalry sitting on Kasbahs (but then, does anyone trust an AI to put its units in the right place? :crazyeye: ).

Could go either way

The Shoshone will be land-grabbers and city-spammers extraordinaire, I expect, and presumably their defence bonus in friendly territory will make them hard to defeat. I think Pocatello will be an annoying opponent for the human player, although perhaps not a formidable one. I can see the AI being completely inept at using the Pathfinders to best effect - although they could be scary in the early game as neighbours, I think they might peter out in the mid-to-late game.

Portugal is an interesting one - on paper, they will be one of the most powerful new Civs in the player's hands, but I think they AI will stuff them up. The AI will most likely be useless at getting Feitorias built, so there goes one of their most powerful traits, but on the other hand, with Mare Clausum and the Nau, Maria won't have to work very hard to earn money, and wealthier AIs are usually the best performers (see Pachacuti and Harun). Again a lot of this depends on how good the AI will be at working with the new trade mechanics. At this point, since it rarely seems to struggle for money anyway, I don't believe that it can be trusted not to stick with domestic trade routes and wage war on its neighbours instead of trading with them. I do hope I'm wrong, however.

I haven't seen much discussion of New France here. I don't think we can expect Napoleon's personality to change very much (he is firmly in what I like to call the 'slicey' category at the moment), but I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up performing less well than at the moment. Assuming that Ancien Régime's +2 culture per city is going, his new UA does seem like a downgrade in AI terms (I don't really believe that the AI will be very good at theming its Great Works). We don't know enough about the Château to comment on how that will impact his game, but on the face of it, he's losing his easier culture acquisition from the start of the game (not to mention the Foreign Legion) and gaining something that, while nice from a human player POV, may not benefit him a great deal. Judgement reserved for now.

Brazil I am classing as mediocre-to-weak at the moment. They're clearly the cultural powerhouse of the expansion, and with the AI's happiness bonuses Pedro should be swimming in Great Artists, and should be able to bag a few Wonders as well. They should also be pretty resilient to outside Ideological pressures late-game. On the face of it, he could be the new Darius. So why the uncertainty? Well, partly the fact that AI in CiV generally doesn't have a great track record at managing Great People or timing Golden Ages well. Nor does Pedro's Carnival benefit his military in the way that Darius' does - the UU is so late as to be all but irrelevant in military terms. We have already seen some evidence of Pedro getting attacked and losing cities in screenshots from preview builds (OK, not the final game, but still) and I think he might struggle to stay alive.

Likely to be awful

For these, I don't much disagree with other posters' comments. Venice are almost guaranteed to be useless in the hands of the AI. Enrico will be forced to go on the offensive from the get-go, but apart from the Galleass, he gets no particular advantage towards capturing cities. I hope he at least has been programmed to appreciate the particular usefulness of the Merchant of Venice, and doesn't instead spam Custom Houses everywhere... but I'm not sure I believe that he will. He will probably be hyper-aggressive, spamming units when others are building Settlers, and unless he wins those early wars he will disappear fast.

Indonesia will also do badly, but then that's hardly a surprise - both Venice and Indonesia feel very much as though they have been designed to provide a fun and challenging playing experience for the human player rather than as challenging AI opponents. The AI most likely won't understand that it needs to build 3 cities on a different continent to get the bonus from its UA, and the Kris Swordsman is wildly unpredictable. Gajah Mada will most likely have an expansionistic and faith-favouring personality in an attempt to counterbalance the UA problem (if he builds enough cities, eventually some will be on different continents, right?) and this will lead to conflicts with other Civs. The Candi's faith boost will only really come into play late-game when there are lots of religions floating around.

As I said at the beginning, I'm making big assumptions regarding the state of the AI come BNW's release - so there's potential for most of this to be completely off the mark :crazyeye:


Really ? I thinx brazile will do verry well the AI mostly allways have golden ages because of the happiness so they will be spamming great works and wonders like crazy and before you know it they troll you with insane tourisme and there is only 1 way war or else you lose
 
I think Brazil stand to do very well if they survive; however I'm operating on the principle that the the AI's aggressiveness is the same as it is in G&K: in other words, other AIs will see them as weak and wipe them out.

It depends on how quickly they can expand. In the preview builds released so far, we have seen very little evidence of them performing particularly well in anything other than cultural dominance - which requires them to remain alive considerably late in the game.
 
AI is going to be terrible at exploiting the indonesian UA since it sucks at expanding to other continents. But, they might have improved the AI a lot so we wont really know until we're playing it next month.
 
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