How do you use siege weapons?

[kensington888]

Also what im asking is if you attack a city using siege first what does it actually do to bring their defenses to 0%?What difference is there in doing this rather than attacking their defenders with siege apart from probably losing my siege weapons?then obviously your army will attack their injured defenders but then there is still their defence %.

 

[logarithm64]

Bombard the defences to 0% to eliminate the city's defensive bonus to all units in that tile, do a few suicide attacks to weaken the entire stack's base strength and then attack the softened defenders with regular units.

 

[Sisiutil]

Are you having trouble finding the Bombard command button? When you have a siege unit selected, it looks like a target.

 

[kensington888]

Are you having trouble finding the Bombard command button? When you have a siege unit selected, it looks like a target.

no i know how to bombard.what im am saying is for example a city has defenses that would take 4 or 5 turns to get do 0%.the also have 2 defenders.so i mean in the 4-5 turns that it takes to bombard them to 0% why should i not do city attack with siege.then what is the difference in the defenders being attack by my main army if they have been injured but they have city defenders?

 

[itg]

If it takes 4-5 turns to bombard to 0%, you need more siege! As a rule of thumb, you should have enough siege to bombard to 0% AND suicide a few in a single turn.

 

[God-Emperor]

what im am saying is for example a city has defenses that would take 4 or 5 turns to get do 0%.

Clearly you do not have enough siege units...

But you don't necessarily have to get it to 0, just low enough that your odds of winning or withdrawing are up in the range that you want them to be in. Are you happy with a 50-something percent chance or do you want to spend another turn bombarding to get it up into the 60s?

Speed is good - it gives them less time to move in, or build, reinforcements. Those surprise upgrades can be nasty too. If you thought you were attacking archers but while you spent 4 turns bombarding they got Feudalism and upgraded 2 to longbows then you would have probably been better off attacking instead of bombarding.

If you have a significant tech advantage (rifles and cannons vs. longbows and macemen for example) it is even easier. You can often just pretty much walk through the newer cities (where the defense is low, below 50% and often only 20%) without bombarding the defenses at all as long as you don't mind sometimes losing an additional unit or two in the attack (especially the initial siege units).

 

[yanner39]

One thing I do is if cultural defenses are low, say 20%, I don't even bother bombarding. I just use my siege to attack the city and cause collateral damage to the units and cleanup with melee.

However, what others have said is so true: bring alot of siege and city attackers, just try and match the number of units the enemy has. If the enemy has 5 archers, bring 5 swords and a bunch of cats. If the enemy has 5 axes, bring 5 axes and a bunch of cats.

 

[Sisiutil]

In addition to building more siege weapons, give a few of them the Accuracy promotion, which will jack up their ability to tear down city defense %.

 

[Psyringe]

for example a city has defenses that would take 4 or 5 turns to get do 0%.the also have 2 defenders.so i mean in the 4-5 turns that it takes to bombard them to 0% why should i not do city attack with siege.then what is the difference in the defenders being attack by my main army if they have been injured but they have city defenders?

Attacking the city with the siege unit while the city's defenses are still intact will probably kill your siege unit. That said, doing so is indeed sometimes preferable to spending several turns reducing the defenses, especially if the defender manages to reinforce his troops during that timespan. The AI often doesn't understand that when it attacks your cities. Instead of quickly taking your city (possibly sacrificing one or two units in the process), it first spends several turns reducing your defenses, which gives you time to concentrate your best defenders in the attacked city.

The best solution is of course to have enough siege units to reduce the city's defenses in a single turn, but that's not always feasible, depending on the circumstances.

 

[Sisiutil]

The toughest era for dealing with city defenses is undoubtedly the medieval era, when city defense %s can become quite high (with mature culture, walls, castles, and sometimes Chichen Itza thrown in too) and the siege weaponry relatively weak. In BtS, it can take upwards of a dozen or more Catapults with Accuracy promotions to remove a mature city's defenses. Contrast that with the industrial era, when 5 Accuracy Cannons are all you'll ever need (maybe 6 if your opponent has CI).

Of course you can attack without lowering the city defenses, but you are likely to lose many, many more units than you would otherwise--both siege and infantry. So it's a matter of identifying what's acceptable to you in terms of unit losses versus speed of conquest.

 

[CHEESE!]

I rarely bombard. Suicide for me!

 

[Darth Fred]

I rarely bombard. Suicide for me!

I'm a fan of BOTH. Though after reading the 4-5 turn bit from above, I need more siege units too.

DOH!
F

 

[Derakon]

I rarely bombard. Suicide for me!

Having just played a game where I finally built (almost!) enough siege, man does it ever change the pace of war. Turn one, bombard city down to zero. Turn two, collateral damage the defending garrison and take the city. Because the defenses are down, I almost never actually lost a siege unit here; they usually succeeded on their retreat attempts. Turn three through six, move army into city and rest to repair the damage my siege took while attacking (no other units take noticeable damage since they're all fighting badly damaged garrison forces). Send in some defenders from the home cities and the army is ready to move again.

Contrast that with my previous attempts, where I'd build siege, waste it in suicide attacks, and then have a long slow buildup before I could take another city...

Granted, this was with cannons vs. riflemen, not trebuchets/catapults vs. longbowmen.

(I say I almost built enough siege because if I'd really built enough, I'd be able to take the city on turn one...)

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

The toughest era for dealing with city defenses is undoubtedly the medieval era, when city defense %s can become quite high (with mature culture, walls, castles, and sometimes Chichen Itza thrown in too) and the siege weaponry relatively weak. In BtS, it can take upwards of a dozen or more Catapults with Accuracy promotions to remove a mature city's defenses. Contrast that with the industrial era, when 5 Accuracy Cannons are all you'll ever need (maybe 6 if your opponent has CI).

Of course you can attack without lowering the city defenses, but you are likely to lose many, many more units than you would otherwise--both siege and infantry. So it's a matter of identifying what's acceptable to you in terms of unit losses versus speed of conquest.

Can you offer suggestions on the best mix of promotions to give your Cats (ie. how many in a stack of 6-8 should have accuracy, siege, collateral damage, etc.)? I guess you would give enough of them accuracy to take the city to zero in one turn. So, if that leaves you with 3-4 extra to begin the attack, what mix of promotions would you like them to have? Personally, I load up on collateral damage Cats. If I have good attackers, just a couple hits from these collaterals is enough, then follow with the killer units. I am not saying this very clearly, but I hope you understand the question.

 

[jabberwalkee_]

Siege strategy = moar siege.

Seriously. Build enough units in your stack so that you have more than the defenders then SPAM SIEGE and promote them all with city raider. It shouldn't take more than two turns (until medieval) to remove culture defenses!

 

[Sisiutil]

(I say I almost built enough siege because if I'd really built enough, I'd be able to take the city on turn one...)

Good thing you realized this so I don't have to say it.

Can you offer suggestions on the best mix of promotions to give your Cats (ie. how many in a stack of 6-8 should have accuracy, siege, collateral damage, etc.)? I guess you would give enough of them accuracy to take the city to zero in one turn. So, if that leaves you with 3-4 extra to begin the attack, what mix of promotions would you like them to have? Personally, I load up on collateral damage Cats. If I have good attackers, just a couple hits from these collaterals is enough, then follow with the killer units. I am not saying this very clearly, but I hope you understand the question.

I do indeed like to have my siege weapons specialize, just like my other units. Thus, I like to have however many siege units with Accuracy promotions it takes to remove most cities' cultural defenses in one turn. This usually means about 6 units in most eras, though in the medieval era, as I said, above, it can get ridiculous, with sometimes as many as 12 Accuracy Cats required! If you have a good hammer-heavy early HE city with a settled General, though, it's not too hard to churn those out.

The thing is, and I suspect that I'm different from other people posting here in this regard, I never use my Accuracy cats for collateral damage attacks. They remove cultural defenses--that's all they do. The only time I use them to attack units is in an emergency situation (i.e. Monty just declared war unexpectedly and moved his stack of 20 War Elephants, 25 Horse Archers, and assorted and sundry Spears, Axes, Cats, and Swords into my territory).

My collateral damage siege weapons get City Raider promotions first; I find that this tends to give them the best rate and highest chances of survival. After that, they specialize in either Drill or Barrage promotions.

As for how many--more is always better. In the ancient/classical era, I'll have 6 Accuracy Cats and an equal number of CD Cats (which I constantly have to replace). A medieval stack will have 8-12 Accuracy Cats and an equal number of CD Trebuchets. In the Industrial era, I can go back down to 6 Accuracy Cannon and 6-10 CD Cannon, later Artillery.

Flight changes the game completely. Once I have Fighters and Bombers I tend to rely on them for cultural defense removal and collateral damage while I take advantage of faster-moving units to attack (Marines for coastal cities, Tanks with Paratroopers for the land-based Blitzkrieg).

 

[Psyringe]

The thing is, and I suspect that I'm different from other people posting here in this regard, I never use my Accuracy cats for collateral damage attacks. They remove cultural defenses--that's all they do.

Well, at least one of the posters here does it pretty much the same way. I basically have two categories of Catapults, "Wall Breakers" and "Defender Softeners". The Breakers get accuracy promotions and are usually built in cities which don't specialize in military, because they don't need to have a lot of experience. the Softeners get built in the cities where I have my XP bonuses, they get as many City Raider promotions as possible, and then either Combat or Drill promotions, depending on the expected strength of the opposition. Some units may break this rule and get Accuracy after the three City Raider promotions; these are for flexibility, but they only get built when I have enough Softeners already, so that I have the best chances on the initial softening attacks.

Unless I'm pressed for speed, I also attack with all siege units that have a survival chance of 96% and higher. Once the initial defense units have been wounded, this is often a very low-risk way to gain experience on the siege units, and make them stronger.

I have no idea whether this is the best strategy (I actually never look into the strategy forum since the game keeps fresh longer for me if I develop strategies mostly by myself), but it always felt right to do it this way.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Interesting. I generally make my wall breakers with XP, so they can get accuracy, so I can make as few of them as possible. I do go through a lot of seige, though, which is kind of a pain in the butt, since I usually end up attacking too late, anyway...

 

[Ataxerxes]

I always specialize my siege with about 5-6 Accuracy and everybody else City Raider. It always seemed best for me and resulted in losing fewer units. I know a lot of people don't promote using Accuracy (including some players a lot better than me) but I confess I never understood why.

After Bombers, I don't build another siege unit. Because about that time I have tanks and I get impatient.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Well, at least one of the posters here does it pretty much the same way. I basically have two categories of Catapults, "Wall Breakers" and "Defender Softeners". The Breakers get accuracy promotions and are usually built in cities which don't specialize in military, because they don't need to have a lot of experience. the Softeners get built in the cities where I have my XP bonuses, they get as many City Raider promotions as possible, and then either Combat or Drill promotions, depending on the expected strength of the opposition. Some units may break this rule and get Accuracy after the three City Raider promotions; these are for flexibility, but they only get built when I have enough Softeners already, so that I have the best chances on the initial softening attacks.

Unless I'm pressed for speed, I also attack with all siege units that have a survival chance of 96% and higher. Once the initial defense units have been wounded, this is often a very low-risk way to gain experience on the siege units, and make them stronger.

I have no idea whether this is the best strategy (I actually never look into the strategy forum since the game keeps fresh longer for me if I develop strategies mostly by myself), but it always felt right to do it this way.

Am I the only person around here who uses Barrage instead of City Raider for Softeners? The way I figure it, if you are attacking a city that is defended by those darn Longbows that have 2 or 3 promotions themselves, the first couple Cat Softeners you hit them with are probably going to die even if they have +2 City Raider promotions. So then, why not hit them with a couple Cats that have the Barrage promotion to gain more softening effect. Either way, you are going to be sacrificing Cats, so why not get the most bang for the buck? I must be missing something here.