how do *you* use the Demographics page?

[Sir Yelof]

Do you make use of the Demographics page when you're planning your next move, or gauging your progress vs. other Civs? There's nothing really in the manual explaining exactly how any of those are calculated and I haven't read anything about how they can specifically be used.

I'm often staring at "military service" in 8th place of 8 civs, which reminds me that I really need to build more units and stop worrying about those libraries. I know GNP can tell me whether I'm making more money than others, and that family size can tell me whether I'm growing faster than other civs.

Generally the rank seems to be the only important factor. I don't have a good idea of the relative value of the actual numbers. (What does 2 years military service actually MEAN? etc.)

I have no idea how some of the metrics are useful. Popularity seems irrelevant. Pollution seems pointless -- if you've got it, you clean it up.

Opinions? Useful facts? Tables of acceptable values for family size against other civs on small and large maps for 3-5 million years? (Hey, I can dream.)

--Yelof

 

[Masquerouge]

Pollution can help you find out how many pollution spots you have. It's the number expressed in megatons (though I'm not sure of megatons). Say you got 4 Mgtns, it means you have four spot to clean on your territory.
The popularity %age is the total number of happy citizens over the total number of your citizens. It's really useful for me (if you decide to go to war, for instance).
The rest I have no idea how they are calculated, especially the military service and the family size. And guess what ? Usually i'm last in these two. I tend to score high in income per capita and productivity...

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

I only use it for rough guesstimates

 

[Taé Shala]

military service means how much fire firepower you have compared to the number of your citizens.

 

[joycem10]

i like to know my land size compared to the other civs. im pretty sure this is an important compenent of your score.

 

[Taé Shala]

No it isn´t.

Your absolute number of land tiles is part of your score, not your relative.

 

[Masquerouge]

Yes it is. Each square of land you own is points added to your score. What would be usefull would be the %age of total land mass you control. A nice résumé of your military campains. Economical forecasts of your empire.

Well, maybe I just like stats

 

[Masquerouge]

Originally posted by Taé Shala
No it isn´t.

MIXED MESSAGES ! MIXED MESSAGES !

Though we're saying the same thing, you being more precise.

 

[Bamspeedy]

The land area in the demographics screen is number of tiles you own (take that number and divide by 100 to get the # of tiles). The little problem with this is that sea tiles are included in the demographics screen, but does not help your score at all (except for the food it provides IF it feeds a happy or content person).

I don't look at the demographics screen at all because those numbers can be so misleading. A person with one city, with all the scientific improvements will have a literacy rate of 100%. A person with 50 cities with all the improvements and 50 cities with no improvements will have a literacy rate of 50%. Military service uses just the # of units, not the quality of the units (10 modern armor is better than 30 warriors, but not according to the demographics!). Family size is growth rate. If you already are maxed out in population, you will be dead last in growth rate, no matter how big your empire is.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

I use the Popularity figures to gauge whether or not to increase luxuries to help increase score.

If I increase luxuries by 10% and the rating only goes up 1% I skip it till later unless I have no use for money. Otherwise increases in Popularity of 5% or more deserve a closer look based on the size of your civ and how much score that increase may represent against any required improvements and their potential long term benifits.

CB

 

[Sir Yelof]

Great! All very useful replies. So now we have:
Land area: number of tiles / 100.
Military service: based on total number of units (which is what the AI uses to evaluate/bully/fear your civ)
Popularity: percentage of happy people. Useful for determining luxury rate effect.
Pollution: identifies how many squares you have left to clean up.

Any others?

 

[sealman]

Is this the screen that also has the top 5 cities? I think so but have not looked lately. If so, I use the screen only to find out which cities I need to take out so that I have the top 5

 

[Qitai]

I think
Manufacture goods = total uncorrupted shield (If this is true, this stat is useful)
GNP = total income
Productivity = GNP + ??
Pop = total pop by adding pop in each city (note this is different from city size)

Additionally, I think Military service should be total unit/pop or city size not just total unit.

Wonder if someone can do some investigation. Would be interesting to know how each number is derive.

 

[Sir Yelof]

I think productivity might be a measurement of your GNP vs. your corruption, but I'm not sure.

Qitai: Why is there a difference between city pop and city size???

Also, is that what military service is, or is that what you think it should be?

Thanks!
--Yelof

 

[roadwarrior]

I thought pollution was the numer of little pollution icons in your cities, not the actual number of polluted tiles. I'm pretty sure that I have had pollution on this screen even when I had cleaned up all my pollution...

 

[Aeson]

I rarely look at the Demographics, they mean little to nothing from a gameplay standpoint. The military service numbers aren't that useful. I think it takes into account total population. So if you have a lot of people and a lot of military units you might rank lower than a civ with very few people and few military units.

The Powergraph (F8, select power) is the key to dealing with the AI. Mostly it takes into account number of cities and military units, with number of cities being more important.

 

[Qitai]

city size and pop is related but it is not a simple
size 1 = 10,000
size 2 = 20,000 etc knid of relation
So, two size one city is not the same as one size two city. And that is the difference I am talking about.

 

[planetfall]

Military service-- don't understand the formula and never user.

This is what I use regularly:

1. happiness. Comfort range is above 65%. Sometimes will increase happiness in F1 and then switch to F11 to see if the cost is worth the effect.

2. science-- if not in top 3 going to have a tech race problem and need to plan for it.

3. productivity-- if I am not 1 or 2, I am unhappy. It really really cramps game if others are regularly above me in productivity.

4. land area-- position tells me how aggressive or passive game play can be.

5. military service-- I am usually last here. Of more importance is whether military advisor considers me weak|avg|strong. weak==forget culture, build military or you may not have a civ. avg==look out for sneak attacks. strong==generally peace thru strength. Pax Roma...


rest are of no value.

Of value is top 5 cities as a quick reminder of which other civs will be causing problems for you.

 

[RX2000]

GNP has to do with all the uncorrupted commerce your civ produces. Manufactured Goods is a measure of all the unwasted shields you produce. So if you are #1 in those two categories, you are producing more commerce and shields than anyone else.

Military Service is based on military units divided by your population. The computer almost always has a ton more obsolete units floating around, so it boosts this average up for them. If you want to see this in action, play a quick OCC game. Just make military units the whole game, until you have like 30 in your one city. Then look at your military service.

Pollution has to be based on the pollution GENERATED by all your cities, not by the actual polluted tiles you have. On my last game, right when I entered the Industrial age and had made a few factories, I looked at my pollution, and I was generating some pollution while never having had 1 polluted tile yet. So it cant be based on that.

I'm not sure what productivity is.

Edit:
I just tried my OCC example. I built nothing but warriors. I had 1 city with a size 5 population. I had 16 warriors, 1 scout, and 1 worker. My military service was 32 years! Sucks to be my citizens eh? My life expectancy was about that too! Haa. You're born in the barracks and ya die in the barracks.

Another interesting thing, the other civs I met early on offered me all their cash for my techs, or an even tech for tech trade. This also proves that they mostly look at your power compared to theirs when offering deals.

 

[VKV]

I don't remember being anything but last in military service (in Civ3 but also in previous civs). Has anyone see this actually working?