How does AI build wonders so quickly?!

[molesworth]

Hi I am new here but have been playing CIV II on playstation for a couple of years. Does anyone know how the AI civs manage to build wonders so quickly? As I understand it AI never "rush builds" or buys wonders outright. Nevertheless I have known them to complete wonders in only a few turns. On subsequently investigating the AI city with the wonder I have found It has nothing like enough resource shields to be able to build it that quickly. Is AI subject to different rules from human players or what is going on here?

On a related subject - sometimes AI civs suddenly complete their wonders without a warning in the previous turn. The warning seems to be withheld if I am at war with them or have made no contact with them. Is this the case or just a coincidence?

 

[Ali Ardavan]

sometimes AI civs suddenly complete their wonders without a warning in the previous turn. The warning seems to be withheld if I am at war with them or have made no contact with them. Is this the case or just a coincidence?

I have seen such an occurrence only once. I was not sure what to make of it. I thought you get a warning regardless. I know for a fact that being at war with them is irrelevant. At some point in GOTM 66 when I was at war with Mongols I rush bought a wonder to keep it out of their hands, and I only pay for wonder shields when I get a warning that someone else is about to get it.

 

[ElephantU]

You are aware that caravans and freights can contribute 50 shields to a wonder being built, right? Also, the higher you go in difficulty level the narrower a "row" in an AI build box. I'm not clear on whether that affects wonders, but the AI does seem to have better abilities to build them than us mortals. There may be a cheaper "Buy It" option for them as well, but I have not seen anyone document that (check their treasury before and after sudden wonder building?).

As far as the sudden wonder building is concerned, I usually see it happen when the AI has already been building a wonder in the city and switches from a larger one to a smaller one (like from Great Library to Hanging Gardens), particularly if someone else just built the one they were building. Be careful when you complete or permit the AI to complete a wonder if others who are building the same have the tech for a wonder you really want. Also keep track of which civs start wonders or switch between them. Having Marco Polo gives you a big leg up on this as you can see their city list which also tells which city is building which wonder.

 

[molesworth]

You are aware that caravans and freights can contribute 50 shields to a wonder being built, right? Also, the higher you go in difficulty level the narrower a "row" in an AI build box.

Thanks for replying. Yeah, I know about the caravans/freights. Hadn't noticed the narrower "rows" on higher difficulty levels - that might explain it.

As far as the sudden wonder building is concerned, I usually see it happen when the AI has already been building a wonder in the city and switches from a larger one to a smaller one (like from Great Library to Hanging Gardens), particularly if someone else just built the one they were building.

Yes - I have seen that too.

Having Marco Polo gives you a big leg up on this as you can see their city list which also tells which city is building which wonder.

That is interesting about MP - I don't think you get the info about which city is building which wonder with MP in the playstation version. Maybe on lower levels - I play on Emperor level now so I can't remember. Also I rarely build MP. I am bidding for a PC version of the game on ebay right now so I look forwards to playing GOTM soon!

 

[Peaster]

I agree with ElephantU. Also, IMO (based only on game play) the AI does not have any obvious advantage in making wonders, and probably does not often use caravans to speed things up.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I agree with Peaster in that I have never felt the AI is making wonders too quickly.

But what about the other point of this thread? Has anyone else experienced wonders coming along without prior warning a turn before?

 

[Ace]

Yes, I have been surprised by an AI finishing a wonder with no warning. I usually wrote it off to inattention on my part, i.e., long turns, and forgetting that there was an announcement by the AI, but, it has happened too often to just be a miss on my part. It maybe due to an AI switching between wonders before you get MP and/or make contact with them. Unfortunately, I have never recorded the circumstances surrounding the incidents, so I don't have any hard data to analyze.

I am pretty sure that the AI build box is smaller for wonders, just like for other items, depending on the difficulty level.

 

[geofelt]

On some occasions, the AI has completed a wonder without warning. It is possible that I missed it, but perhaps not. The AI takes all the shields for the whole civ and distributes it to the various things it builds. That way, a city can build faster that it's own capability; somewhat like building and delivering caravans. In order to not get blindsided, build your lower cost wonders before the higher cost ones. Look at the civs building wonders, and their techs to see if they can switch. I love it when they need to abandon the wonder

 

[Millman]

They can build stuff, but can't learn stuff. In fact, the computer seems better than you at everything. We also have to take in the difficulty level. Any level below emperor there's no complaining. The game should be easy enough to beat unless it finds out how to really cheat.

I mostly play at the Emperor level. So the fact they are keeping up with me in some way is no surprise.

 

[starlifter]

There will be no warning when an AI switches from one wonder to another if it has the shields. However, if you buy (Rush 100%) yours, you will win anyway... but then if they switch to another & its done... oh well. No warning. You lose that one.

The AI will "cheat" itself some shields, depending in level. It can exceed even 20:1 at times. In GOTM 68, I'm watching the AI get about a 6:1 ratio in its box, at Emperor level, on non-wonders.

 

[Dong2Long]

It cheats, as others have said. Often at a 6 or 8 to one ratio. It also uses treasury gold to get some of those shields.

 

[Ace]

Sometimes you can finish a wonder by van/freight or just production shields and the AI will beat you to it that turn, usually when you get the warning that the AI has almost finished it. However, even if you finish the wonder by van/freight, you can still "buy it" for zero coins and you will get it before the AI. Apparently, by "buying" it, it sets a flag somewhere and puts you at the head of the list, even through you do not actually spend any coins.

 

[ElephantU]

During your turn, if you complete the shield box before ending, the AI cannot steal it from you. If you leave the box with even one shield unfinished for next-turn production the AI has a chance of switching or buying it before you complete it. I have NEVER filled a box full of caravan or freight shields and then had the wonder stolen from me between turns. I have gotten the "AI is about to complete" warning multiple times and stolen the wonder from them by filling the box myself. I'd like to see a save of someone who has the shield box full and loses the wonder.

 

[geofelt]

I agree that filling the box will always get you the wonder. Also, you can get the next wonder that the ai will switch to if you fill the box again in the same turn.

I am now certain that the ai can complete a wonder before it notifies you. This does not happen often, but I suspect that this might happen if the ai is building the wonder in more than one city. I am on 2.42 if that might matter.

 

[ElephantU]

I play mostly 2.42 as well, though I have dabbled in MGE. The only time I have seen the AI complete a wonder without a warning is when they have accumulated enough shields in a greater-sized wonder and suddenly switch to a lesser-sized one, particularly if another civ just finished the greater-sized one. An example would be if they were building the Great Library and have accumulated over 200 shields but another civ completes it. They would switch to Hanging Gardens or Colossus and have enough shields to complete it without a warning (this also presumes they fall after the first completing civ in the color order). If one of their "lower" (on the city list) cities did the same I suppose it would be possible for them to complete two in one round but I do not remember seeing that happen.

Playing OCC a lot, once I get Marco Polo I track which AI are building which wonders and the turn that they started. Based on the city size I estimate how many shields they may be putting in each turn (and whether the wonder is "cheaper" based on production box narrowing in Emperor and Deity difficulty levels). Sometimes I am suprised by unexpected warning announcements, but I usually put it down to caravan deliveries or rush-buying. It would be interesting to do a few rounds of detailed AI monitoring to see how they do things. A whole "AI Strategies and Tactics" thread could be developed if someone wanted to spend the time watching them over several drawn-out games.

 

[Ace]

Unfortunately, I do not have any saves of this as the last time it happened to me was several years ago. It was in MGE, playing as the German on Diety level. I got the warning message and added a van to the wonder I was building, which filled the box. On the next turn, the AI got the wonder instead of me. I agree that you will always get the wonder if you buy the last shields, that is why I mentioned "buying" the wonder for zero coins when the box is already full to ensure you get the wonder.

 

[rysingsun]

never mind ... that's what i get for posting before reading