How does AI explore the seas?

[10lire]

HI everyone,
A few days ago I tried to insert a new naval unit in my C3C personal mod scenario: a costal explorer and non-combat unit. In the C3C editor, the "explore" check option in the "AI usage" is disabled for naval units, so my questions are: how does AI works if no option is checked in the "AI usage" in the C3C editor? How can I "force" the AI to use that unit to explore?

 

[ummmm........]

I have no idea. You'll probably find someone who knows the answer quicker if you ask over in Creation & Customization.

 

[Pook]

A couple of weeks ago in the Civ 4 ideas forum under the title "Exploration", I suggested the idea to fund expeditions with non-combat units that could explore large swaths of coastline. The intent was to duplicate the Phoenicians sailing around Africa in 700 BC, the Romans doing the same a few hundred years later, etc. I got no takers for this idea.

 

[Pook]

One thing I can say for certain about AI exploration is that it will never use suicide galleys to try to find another continent.
As far as the algorithm that the AI uses to determine which way its galleys should travel, I don't know.

 

[10lire]

ooopps!! sorry.. wrong subforum!!
@pook: thanx for suggestions; I will go to the Civ4forum to join your idea! I have encountered many times AI galleys in the middle of the oceans!! I usually play at Monarch;then I explain this unexpected meeting thinking: "does AI have a sort of 'no sink in deep water' bonus at this difficulty level and higher?"

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The AI will basically refuse to build a unit that carries nothing but the 'Explore' flag. Honestly, I think this is a very smart move, indicating that the AI has reached some level of consciousness and independance from the programers.....

IMHO it is simply too proud to build units to explore something it already knows from the very beginning. Ok, it will stick to the rules and pay for the map, and it will still use spare units to boldly go where no unit went before, but wasting precious shields for a unit that cannot do anything else?
Consider the AI cannot use units for other strategies than the flagged ones, so Explorers must seem disgusting for the AI...

However, the AI will explore with 'Naval Power' and even 'Naval Transport', as long as those don't require escort. And with 'Offensive' Land units. Just forget the 'Explore' flag.

@10lire:
The AI will NEVER end a turn on an 'unsafe' tile. That's hardcoded. If you meet Galleys in the ocean, well, after Magnetism every ship is safe everywhere...

 

[dgfred]

The AI will basically refuse to build a unit that carries nothing but the 'Explore' flag. Honestly, I think this is a very smart move, indicating that the AI has reached some level of consciousness and independance from the programers.....

IMHO it is simply too proud to build units to explore something it already knows from the very beginning. Ok, it will stick to the rules and pay for the map, and it will still use spare units to boldly go where no unit went before, but wasting precious shields for a unit that cannot do anything else?
Consider the AI cannot use units for other strategies than the flagged ones, so Explorers must seem disgusting for the AI...

However, the AI will explore with 'Naval Power' and even 'Naval Transport', as long as those don't require escort. And with 'Offensive' Land units. Just forget the 'Explore' flag.

@10lire:
The AI will NEVER end a turn on an 'unsafe' tile. That's hardcoded. If you meet Galleys in the ocean, well, after Magnetism every ship is safe everywhere...

Excellent info to know - I've often wondered why the AIs would trade for Maps when they already "knew" where everything was .

 

[Bartleby]

@10lire:
The AI will NEVER end a turn on an 'unsafe' tile. That's hardcoded. If you meet Galleys in the ocean, well, after Magnetism every ship is safe everywhere...

I've seen AI (Celtic) galleys sitting in sea tiles during my turn, before they discovered astronomy, and when I had built the Great Lighthouse.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I've seen AI (Celtic) galleys sitting in sea tiles during my turn, before they discovered astronomy, and when I had built the Great Lighthouse.

Save? Screenshot?

Sorry, but that's one of those urban myths of Civ3; the AI programmer stated that this won't happen. While it was reported repeatedly, no one ever could confirm an AI 'suicide galley'. I'm sure someone can find Soren's quote.

(btw, a good way to see that is the mouse movement path calculations for your units, which use the same routine as the AI...you cannot move to an unsafe tile, only through...)

 

[10lire]

I've seen AI (Celtic) galleys sitting in sea tiles during my turn, before they discovered astronomy, and when I had built the Great Lighthouse.

Save? Screenshot? (...)

Yesterday I searched in my old played games but I don't find what I have written some post above; Tonight I tried again!
Anywhere I am almost sure that the situation was the same described by Bartleby.. there was a GALLEY; if AI civ had discovered Magnetism, probably AI naval units had been upgrated

 

[Bartleby]

Save? Screenshot?

I'm at work now but I will post them tomorrow...not sure if I have a save, but I took screenshots because it struck me as very odd at the time.

Edit:
This is not like a suicide galley, it's just "parked" offshore on sea rather than coast.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

10lire: Upgrading? The AI???
(not a valid point).

Bartelby:
Did it stay there, or was it mayb just teleported out from some other Civs border?

 

[Bartleby]

Bartelby:
Did it stay there?

I think, but I'm not sure, that I saw it moving into the square-that's how I noticed it and thought it was odd. I remember having the intention of watching to see what happened next interturn but unfortunately I don't remember what did happen, possibly it sank and I didn't get to see it. There were two separate incidents in this game, both Celtic galleys, both times before the discovery of astronomy.

was it mayb just teleported out from some other Civs border?

surely it would be teleported into a coast square?

 

[Aggie]

Save? Screenshot?

Sorry, but that's one of those urban myths of Civ3; the AI programmer stated that this won't happen. While it was reported repeatedly, no one ever could confirm an AI 'suicide galley'. I'm sure someone can find Soren's quote.

(btw, a good way to see that is the mouse movement path calculations for your units, which use the same routine as the AI...you cannot move to an unsafe tile, only through...)

Doc Tsiolkovski is right. This won't happen, sadly. The AI therefore can't profit fully from the seafaring trait. Therefore seafaring on an archipelago map is very powerful in human hands, making a deity game play like emperor or less. Especially when you start on your own island. The AI won't be able to make contact quickly and you will be the trade king until Navigation.

 

[Bartleby]

I checked my saves and it just happens I did have a save for the offending galley.
Apparently what has happened is my galley was exploring and stumbled across the Celtic galley which had ended its turn in the sea.
I watched the next interturn again last night and you don't see it move away, so my guess is it sank.
Edit: I incorrectly stated yesterday that I had built the Great Lighthouse,
in fact it was the Dutch who built it, but I ended up owning it.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60332&stc=1

 

[Bartleby]

erm, I'm not sure if this is attaching the save or not...

edit: apparently it did.
edit2: it's C3C 1.15b

 

[Aggie]

I looked at the save and can't explain the galley on the sea tile when you keep in mind that the AI doesn't end on sea tiles without the Lighthouse or Astronomy. The Celts are far from the tech and also don't have the Lighthouse.

I find it strange that the galley didn't move away or sink in the IT...

 

[Bartleby]

Apologies for bumping this, but can anyone shed any light on the behaviour of the above galley?

 

[Aggie]

You are right to bump this. I find it very strange. Maybe someone else can give a good explanation.

 

[LordKestrel]

Good to see we finally have a screenshot of the ocean going AI galley, now we just need a save that has a 1hp spearman on grassland defeating a 20hp MA army.