How does Ideological Unhappiness work?

[Viregel]

In my current Domination game as Indonesia on King, I am being bombarded by Ideological unhappiness. I have chosen Order, while Polynesia went for Autocracy. When they adopted Autocracy, they were generating more tourism than me, but now I am gaining on him (29 vs 29) athough the -13 happiness hasn't lessened. I'm (almost) sure that I overtook his tourism at one point, yet I still didn't get out of the unhappiness. I'd presume I'd need to go over his tourism level to actually get out of the unhappiness, but is there anything else I need to consider to stop the unhappiness?

(By the way, sorry if this thread is useless. I couldn't find any thread relevant enough to ask in.)

 

[Yzman]

There was a wonderful thread that explained all of this with examples but I am unable to locate it.

Basically, it doesn't compare tourism directly. It compares tourism levels. So lets say that Polynesia is exotic to you, but you are unknown to them. This will cause them to exert pressure on you. So if you want the pressure to stop you need to increase your influence with them.

 

[Viregel]

There was a wonderful thread that explained all of this with examples but I am unable to locate it.

Basically, it doesn't compare tourism directly. It compares tourism levels. So lets say that Polynesia is exotic to you, but you are unknown to them. This will cause them to exert pressure on you. So if you want the pressure to stop you need to increase your influence with them.

Thanks for the reply. So, generally, I just need to gain more tourism? Also, does my culture come into account in any way? I'm about to take their capital, but I'm at -2% combat strength which could pile up.

 

[Yzman]

Thanks for the reply. So, generally, I just need to gain more tourism? Also, does my culture come into account in any way? I'm about to take their capital, but I'm at -2% combat strength which could pile up.

Your influence level is determined by your tourism output to the civ compared to the culture that they produce themselves. In other words, yes, the more culture you produce the lower their influence level will become with you. The important thing to note is this is over the course of the whole game so just because you overtake them for a turn, it won't change anything. You need to look at the long term.

This can be seen by going to the influence by leader screen which shows their culture compared to your tourism and what level of influence you are at with them.

 

[That Other Guy]

Someone wrote up a reasonably detailed explanation a while ago that I'll quote here:

Tourism works a lot like culture. It is accumulated over time as a total counter. If your tourism is +8, that means your "BASE" tourism is 8 per turn. (So after 10 turns you will have 80 total tourism). The base tourism is modified by several modifiers with each civ. Open borders for example has a 25% modifier. So if you have open boarders with Civ A but not with Civ B. You will generate 10 tourism with Civ A per turn and 8 tourism with Civ B. (So after 10 turns you will have 100 tourism with Civ A and 80 tourism with Civ B). Its a running total (just like culture is).

Your influence level is determined by the total amount of tourism over the course of the entire game compared to the total culture generated over the entire game of the other Civ. If you have generated 1000 total tourism to Civ A and Civ A has generated 10000 total culture then your influence is 10% (and thus at the exotic level). This is seperate for every civ since each civ has different tourism amounts you've put into them (due to modifiers) and they have generated different amounts of total culture.

The unhappiness from different ideologies uses the 6 influence levels of culture. Points are awarded as follows

Unknown (0% - 10%) = 0 Points
Exotic (10% - 30%) = 1 Point
Familiar (30% - 60%) = 2 Points
Popular (60% - 100%) = 3 Points
Influential (100% - 200%) = 4 Points
Dominating (200%+) = 5 Points.

To find ideological pressure, you take your influence level and compare it to theirs. If they are Familiar and You are Exotic, they will influence 1 point of ideological pressure on you. Also If I recall, if the world congress has voted on a world ideology, that ideology generates an additional 2 points of pressure.

As for how much for each level of pressure (Content, Dissidents, Civil Resistance, and Revolutionary Wave), I'm not certain how much pressure points it takes from different ideologies.

Basically what it boils down to is that if you even dont plan on playing towards a culture game, you can't just ignore tourism completely. It doesn't take much to get to exotic with every civ in the game and lowering ideological pressure by 1. Your only other option to avoid the happiness penalty is to just not take an ideology at all or swap to the world ideology.

 

[joncnunn]

Above post covers the maths.

Now as a practical matter, all you really need to do in a SP game is to build the darn guilds and run all the slots as soon as you hit each of the techs, and build the normal buildings and in a few national wonders that have spots whenever you run out of room. That will be provide enough culture & tourism to avoid being hit by any worse than net 1 point. (Unless UN has adopted a different ideology) No need to build world wonders boosting tourism unless going for a cultural victory yourself.
Since you also want to run all science slots in every city, just have 2 or 3 food cargo ship routes providing food to your capital where they are located.

 

[mice]

Qoute " Your only other option to avoid the happiness penalty is to just not take an ideology at all..."

Really ? how do I do that ? I thought it was unavoidable.

 

[Browd]

It is unavoidable, but it is deferrable -- build no more than 2 factories and stick to researching Industrial Era techs for as long as possible. When you do have to take an Ideology, you will have a much better sense of the Ideological lanscape.

 

[Aaron90495]

Qoute " Your only other option to avoid the happiness penalty is to just not take an ideology at all..."

Really ? how do I do that ? I thought it was unavoidable.

As Browd said, you get an ideology when you get 3 factories or hit the Modern Era. So once you can't avoid it any more, pick the ideology of the civs with the greatest "point" (see above) differential over you.

 

[Smokeybear]

One thing about this whole tourism pressure thing really amazes and confounds me sometimes- the speed with which an AI civ either flips under pressure, or holds onto their ideology till the bloody end even when they've been in revolution for ages.

Most times, when enough pressure has been put on a civ for a while, they'll eventually give up and have a revolution and flip to the dominant ideology. In yesterday's game, I worked the vote so that my ideology (Order) became the world ideology- there were 9 civs with Order, 2 with Autocracy (France and The Ottomans), and 1 with Freedom (Greece). Greece was the world whipping boy at that point, no surprise.

After the vote, on the very next turn, France flipped to Order. This very much surprised me, as they would have been the one I would have expected to hold out to the bitter end, as they had a good sized civ, lots of culture and fair tourism, and were 2nd on the score chart. The two points of pressure from the world congress vote, were all the ideological pressure they had on them at that point.

The Ottomans held out a fair bit longer, even though they were quite a bit weaker on tourism and culture than France, and under more ideological pressure- but they revolted to Order in an expected amount of time.

The last holdout was Greece, and even though he was in a huge red happiness and pressure deficit for the rest of the game, and with a populace in a revolutionary stage throughout most of that time, he never flipped till he was wiped out much, much later, by Assyria. These kind of behaviors make it very hard to predict what any given civ will do, under pressure. Keeps it interesting, for sure.