How Does the AI achieve such High Happiness, Culture, Science?

[brainzl0v3r]

You have a brain.The AI doesnt.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Yea this is why I prefer to play on prince. I could win on deity, but I wouldn't enjoy losing every wonder and having the AI use huge cheats to get ahead of me.

Its hypocritical when a lot of players don't like it if players cheat, but its ok for the AI to do so.

Is is hypocritical to give a wheelchair to leg amputee?

After another miserable loss AI leaders are whining to each other:
- Darn him bloody cheater! How dares he to use his big human brain to get unfair advantage over us!

Seriously guys, it's just too funny. C'mon. Don't want AI to get bonuses? Play on chieftain/warlord/prince - whatever.
Player that want a challenge don't care about AI's bonuses. Who doesn't want a challenge doesn't care what level he/she plays, find the level they feel the most comfortable with and just plays it. But I truly and honestly can't understand those who are constantly complaining about this issue. What do they want? To boost their egos with higher level wins without the need to know the game mechanics and without sweating? That's what seems kinda hypocritical to me.

 

[Aristos]

Cool! Does it work just by changing AI_HANDICAP in GlobalAIDefines.xml from HANDICAP_CHIEFTAIN to HANDICAP_PRINCE, save the xml, then start a new game, no other action required?

Yes, that's the only change, no other action required. Try it, and report back. I like it much better, higher diffs feel more "dynamic" and less artificial...

 

[Aristos]

Is is hypocritical to give a wheelchair to leg amputee?

After another miserable loss AI leaders are whining to each other:
- Darn him bloody cheater! How dares he to use his big human brain to get unfair advantage over us!

Seriously guys, it's just too funny. C'mon. Don't want AI to get bonuses? Play on chieftain/warlord/prince - whatever.
Player that want a challenge don't care about AI's bonuses. Who doesn't want a challenge doesn't care what level he/she plays, find the level they feel the most comfortable with and just plays it. But I truly and honestly can't understand those who are constantly complaining about this issue. What do they want? To boost their egos with higher level wins without the need to know the game mechanics and without sweating? That's what seems kinda hypocritical to me.

It's relative and debatable. With AI playing on Chieftain, and human playing at higher diffs (Emperor+), the bonuses combined from the Chieftain level and the Emperor level become just ridiculous, and IN FAVOR of the human through exploitation of gamey mechanics (that is not skill in my dictionary at least). By cutting off some of the bonuses, the AI has less accumulation of gold for the human to exploit in a ridiculous way, which is the common "strategy" of the higher levels as of now... everyone exploiting the poor combat AI for easy war wins and peeling off 12K of gold accumulated by the AI through ridiculous bonuses...

Even Thal has gone the way of leveling the field in terms of most bonuses and still managed to make the game harder... that speaks a lot about this issue, and puts some perspective on to the debate. Exploiting gamey mechs is not strategy.

 

[bhavv]

You could get a challenge if the game had better AI. Giving it 80% faster construction, 10x more happiness with the ability to cover the world in cities without a problem is over the top.

I don't exactly see the challenge in playing on deity and getting each AI to give you 60,000 gold for a peace treaty. If all you do is play conquest, then there is hardly any challenge at all on any difficulty in Civ V. If you try for science or culture you have next to no chance of getting wonders constructed on immortal / deity because the AI builds them too fast with its production bonus cheats.

 

[The Pilgrim]

If playing on empreror+ is easier than playing on prince or whatever you think is fair, what's the problem to play on prince? Let all those stupid deity players to take the easy road. I don't remember a single thread where higher level players rant about human bonuses on settler. For some reason they just don't care.

There is no question whether trading system and virtually non existent diplomacy need a total revamp. We all agree on that. However the last argument is plain silly.
Nobody forces you to exploit AI weaknesses. Don't sell cities for thousands, don't sell gpt for lump sums, don't crazy bulb 10 techs, don't manipulate RA median etc. Don't do the stuff you think shouldn't be there. Game is winnable on any level without abusing all the above. It won't be a sub 200 turns science win but it will be a win. Any deity player will prove that any given day.
The main difference between succeeding on high levels and low-mid levels is not the ability to exploit cheaty AI but a deep knowledge of game mechanics. Micromanaging, which most of the players simply ignore, ability to plan ahead, not going after wonders that there is a high risk you'll lose, choosing specific buildings for specific cities rather than plopping everything everywhere just for the sake of it, good knowledge of the tech tree and combat system etc. So yeah, it is actually a strategy.

AI is so severely handicapped when compared to human it needs all the help we can imagine. Taking it away will simplify already simplified game. While some improvements can and should be implemented the most ingenious mod/patch won't make AI which can compete with humans as is. Realistically we're very far away from that point and it's not gonna change soon. Whoever wants to face human level intelligence has no choice but playing MP.

 

[dcboy60]

The happiness deal really makes the game difficult for me. I cannot expand the way I would like too because I have to consider happiness (or the lack thereof).

 

[The Pilgrim]

The happiness deal really makes the game difficult for me. I cannot expand the way I would like too because I have to consider happiness (or the lack thereof).

It's pretty common to fall into unhappiness in early stages (first 4 cities) as long as it doesn't cross -9. Settle on luxes (and I mean literally on top of them) and ally CS's if you have the money. Try to have horses/ivory in your radius for free circuses and stone/marble for stoneworks.

 

[bhavv]

THe funny rhing I've found now that i've started playing Immortal - Immortal in Civ V is about as challenging as Monarch in Civ IV.

Ok let the AI have all its bonuses, but REMOVE their production bonuses when building wonders as the amount they get those cheapened is just ridiculous because its all percentage based.

 

[The Pilgrim]

THe funny rhing I've found now that i've started playing Immortal - Immortal in Civ V is about as challenging as Monarch in Civ IV.

I'd say emperor but I agree it's easier. And that's why I argue against taking away AI bonuses.

Ok let the AI have all its bonuses, but REMOVE their production bonuses when building wonders as the amount they get those cheapened is just ridiculous because its all percentage based.

It's the player, not the game. I'm a recovered wonder addict myself. You'll never ever take me down. If you care about wonders so much, I'm asking you again: why not to play on lower level when you can get all of them? If you care about winning, you don't need wonders as much as a good strategy. Let the healing begin, my friend!

 

[headcase]

Yes, that's the only change, no other action required. Try it, and report back. I like it much better, higher diffs feel more "dynamic" and less artificial...

I tried this with the Petroleum mod. To make it easy on myself (first game trying the Petroleum mod and I wanted to make sure I'd get to that point at the game in comfortable position to better experiment with it), I played on Prince as well. So AI was on Prince and I was on Prince.

I am only now getting into the industrial era where the petroleum mod takes effect, but as for the early goings, I unsurprisingly dominated over the AI. However, it was still an enjoyable journey. The AI surprised me with their ability to recognize the lower happiness and slow down their expansion accordingly.

Next time I would probably play straight vanilla and move my own difficulty up a couple of notches (to King or Emporer). That said, with my limited exposure to the HANDICAP_PRINCE AI, I really like how the AI doesn't fill up continents in the blink of an eye.

For anyone starting into Civ 5, I have to say that an "All Prince" game has a much better feel to it than a normal Chieftain game. Expansion of all civs (AI and player) is slower and more deliberate, and there is more freedom of choice compared to the Chieftain style of everyone having a million happiness and having no choice but to expand as quickly as possible before the others fill up the land.

Also I am pretty sure the "attitude" modifier (the one that makes AIs tend to like each other and hate you) does take effect in the game as the AI seemed to be more sour to other AI than normal (since everyone has the -1 effect in an all-Prince game). this was good too, though I might just change the attitude modifier for Prince to "0" instead of the default "-1", as the number of denouncements and wars was just slightly more than I think is needed.

Can't wait to try an Emporer Vs. Princes game next.

 

[Kaosprophet]

If you try for science or culture you have next to no chance of getting wonders constructed on immortal / deity because the AI builds them too fast with its production bonus cheats.

While it's always a bit of a crapshoot, especially with the earliest ones, I have seen it done with reasonable consistently by the two biggest LP contributers (wainy and MadDjinn.) Which tells me that the truth is a far ways away from "next to no chance."

Now, trying to nab *all* the wonders at that level... whole other story.

 

[Smauler]

Is is hypocritical to give a wheelchair to leg amputee?

After another miserable loss AI leaders are whining to each other:
- Darn him bloody cheater! How dares he to use his big human brain to get unfair advantage over us!

Seriously guys, it's just too funny. C'mon. Don't want AI to get bonuses? Play on chieftain/warlord/prince - whatever.
Player that want a challenge don't care about AI's bonuses. Who doesn't want a challenge doesn't care what level he/she plays, find the level they feel the most comfortable with and just plays it. But I truly and honestly can't understand those who are constantly complaining about this issue. What do they want? To boost their egos with higher level wins without the need to know the game mechanics and without sweating? That's what seems kinda hypocritical to me.

The problem, as I see it, is that the AI can have empires entirely unobtainable by the player.

Civ IV threw production boosts, and tech boosts for higher levels. That's cool, the AI is not up to human standard, who'd have thought?

Most of the complaints here are not about the difficulty... they're about the impossible to obtain AI empires. What rubs salt into the wound is the AI constantly moaning that your civilisation is unhappy.