How does this game handle gender and race?

plandr

Chieftain
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Never played a civilization before, thought I'd pick it up from what I read so far but I had a few questions about it. One is about gender.

Throughout history women's rights/place in society has been a big part of the world and its development. I was wondering how civilization 4 addresses this.

Are citizens/units separated by gender at all? If so, how are they treated. Can you determine what proportion of what gender is sent to say, the military? Can age limits be set in place for this? Can you assign citizens rights based on gender/age?

Hoping someone can shed some light on this. ^_^

Also, how does the game handle race? Does it address this or no?
 
Wasn't sure where else to post this so I went for the most populated board as I'm going to buy this today...

Never played a civilization before, thought I'd pick it up from what I read so far but I had a few questions about it. One is about gender.

Throughout history women's rights/place in society has been a big part of the world and its development. I was wondering how civilization 4 addresses this.

Are citizens/units separated by gender at all? If so, how are they treated. Can you determine what proportion of what gender is sent to say, the military? Can age limits be set in place for this? Can you assign citizens rights based on gender/age?

Hoping someone can shed some light on this. ^_^

Also, how does the game handle race? Does it address this or no?
 
Civ neither addresses gender nor race at all in any of the games in the series, and general discussion wouldave been a better place for this thread.
 
Never played a civilization before, thought I'd pick it up from what I read so far but I had a few questions about it. One is about gender.

Throughout history women's rights/place in society has been a big part of the world and its development. I was wondering how civilization 4 addresses this.

Are citizens/units separated by gender at all? If so, how are they treated. Can you determine what proportion of what gender is sent to say, the military?

Throughout the series (from Civ II on if I remember correctly) there has been a Worldwonder called 'Woman suffragette' that gave you certain bonuses. In Civ IV there are two Civics called 'Universal suffragette' and 'Emancipation'. Those Civics are kind of a toolbox for the way your gouvernment system works. 'Universal suffragette' raise productivity of your towns, 'Emancipation' raises growth of your villages and punishes Civilizations without it by raised war unhappiness.

You also have a lot female leaders in Civ III and Civ IV. (Some of them to me seem to be chosen to have female leaders rather than for the greatness of their leadership: Cleopatre and Joan of Arc as in Civ III would not have been my first choice for an Egypt or French leader. ;) )

Also in Civ II and Civ III all population related icons in the city screen or statistic screens were always one man, one woman, one man, one woman...

So it's not a macho or guys only game and I think you will probably find what you're seeking in the game. :)
 
A warm welcome to Civilization and to Civilization Fanatics!

I would say that leaders of each Civilisation could be considered relevant to gender and race but it does not affect gameplay in any way.

To assuage your worries, a significant proportion of leaders in the game are female eg Isabella, Victoria, Boudica, Catherine, Hatchetput, Cleopatra and on tp of that there is a good spread of races across North and South America, Africa, Europe and Asia although it has been stated in these boards that the game is slightly European biased.

However it is the European nations that generally have the female leaders so it seems you can't be 'politcally correct' both ethnically and genderwise.

The only racist/imperialist elements are I can see are that both American leaders are white (Washington or Roosevelt) and one of the Egyptian leaders is Greek (Cleopatra, a decendant of Alexander) all other leaders are ethnic/native eg Zulu, Chinese, Japanese, Malinese, Aztec, Inca, Soiux....

I think Firaxis have got it about right, remember it's just a game. Go buy it and have fun.
 
I think they do their best to avoid these uglier parts of history, including racism or sexism. You make the jump from a Monarchy to a Democracy, or from Hereditary Rule to Universal Suffrage, and all those problems supposedly disappear with it. Besides hiding the ugly truth, they also tackle history in simpler strokes -- not quite accurate, but close enough.
 
Perugia, good effort, but listing the female leaders in Civ isn't really what plandr was getting at, I don't think. I think plandr might be studying gender studies, or women studies, or equity studies, or african studies...one of those, in university. Only such a student would ask such a question about a video game. On the one hand, plandr, it's nice that you care so much about identity politics that you even think of it when you are buying a video game, but on the other hand I laughed when I saw your post. As amazing as Civ is, it's just a game. It's about as politically correct as chess - meaning, it's not really relevant to the game. Since Civ is (very loosely) based on history, I suppose political correctness is more relevant to Civ than chess, maybe that was a bad example. For instance, religion is in the game. So is slavery and universal suffrage. You might be tempted to think that these options in the game represent what they do in real life, but that's not the case. For exmaple, in the game you could choose to be a monarch, or run a democratic government, allow slavery, or emancipate the population, and grant universal suffrage. Let me tell you though, these options are just game mechanics that have nothing to do with real life. In the game I run slavery sometimes when it suits me, whereas if I were a leader in real life I wouldn't even consider the option of slavery - it's repugnant. So it's just a game. If you're easily offended and can't even fathom allowing slavery even if it's a video game, you'd probably have a tough time playing this game.
 
All of the units appear to be male. The pictures of the specialist are all white guys. If that bothers you i'm sure someone here has a mod you can load to make them look like whatever you want, even monkeys.

Civ mostly sticks to generalizations. Everything from the name of a unit. Such as "Cannon". There were hundreds of types of cannons in the world, in the game there is just 1. To some people generalizations = evil sterotypes so I could see how people have a problem with this game.

As far as I know all U.S. presidents have been white males. Don't know what that says about Firaxis when they choose to have a white male lead America.

The largest oversite on Firaxis's part is the fact that for the Indian civ cows are considered food!! Total negligence on their part.
 
that's not negligent. In India cows are food - dairy food. Hindus will keep the cow alive so that they can drink its milk over the course of its life, but they will not slaughter the cow to eat its meat. Not only is that a religious thing, it's also practical. Keeping the cow alive and drinking its milk (or using it for cheese, yogurt, etc) allows you to consume far more calories over the life of the cow than if you killed it and ate it. There is logic behind many old religious rules.
 
Wasn't sure where else to post this so I went for the most populated board as I'm going to buy this today...

Never played a civilization before, thought I'd pick it up from what I read so far but I had a few questions about it. One is about gender.

Throughout history women's rights/place in society has been a big part of the world and its development. I was wondering how civilization 4 addresses this.

Are citizens/units separated by gender at all? If so, how are they treated. Can you determine what proportion of what gender is sent to say, the military? Can age limits be set in place for this? Can you assign citizens rights based on gender/age?

Hoping someone can shed some light on this. ^_^

Also, how does the game handle race? Does it address this or no?

There are few meaningful gender distinctions in the game. Most of the graphics are of males, but some (I think the spy late in the game) are female. Someone mentioned that the "great people" are male--their icons are male, but some are female--I recall seeing Jean D'Arc and Coco Chanel, for example... The female leaders don't seem to have traits that are somehow more "feminine" than the others. But there are significantly more male leaders than female. As to race, the leaders' pictures show a good variety of races. However, there is no conflict in the game based on race--the closest analogy is conflict based on religions.
 
[q]The largest oversite on Firaxis's part is the fact that for the Indian civ cows are considered food!! Total negligence on their part.[/q]
And if India is Christian?
It is Hinduism, not Indian culture that opposes the eating of beef. Note that the Arabs eat pigs too.
Since all religions are the same, for good reason, this needs to be ignored (just assume the people who eat that food are non-believers.
 
The female population dies the same as the male when I nuke other civilizations, so I think Civ4 is very gender-balanced :mischief:

Well, seriously the game is a lot more balanced than real history was. Compared to male/female ratio of leaders in real history, there is an abundance of female leaders in the game.
 
NB: I'm posting about Civ 4. I gather this thread has been merged from threads in other forums, and presumably this explains why people keep going on about things which aren't in Civ 4, like having Cleopatra as a leader.


Regarding race, it depends on exactly what you're looking for. As mentioned above, the UI isn't very multicultural - the specialist icons are all white men. With the addition of the Beyond The Sword expansion pack, the military units of every civ are supposed to look correct for that particular culture (and for what it's worth, I personally hate this feature and will mod it out of my copy when I get the time - it makes it very difficult to recognise the different types of units). There are leaders from virtually all parts of the world, and naturally they are supposed to be representative of their respective cultures/ethnicities (but read the archives of this forum and you'll find lots of pointless debates about the Viking leader having a horned helmet). You may notice some other UI race issues - I'm not particularly attuned to noticing these things.

In terms of actual game mechanics, race mostly isn't handled. Insofar as it does get handled, it's mostly in the form of "culture". Every city produces culture belonging to its controlling civilisation. The actual amount of culture produced will vary, depending on how you play. Culture spills out onto surrounding tiles, and so different cultures can overlap. The civilisation with the highest level of cultural influence over a tile gets to control that tile, so borders can fluctuate. In an actual city, the ethnic/cultural makeup of the population is determined by the levels of different civs' cultures influencing the tile on which the city is located. For example, if London is near to Tenochtitlan and Medina, it might have 85% English culture, 10% Aztec culture and 5% Arabian culture. For the most part, this has no effect on gameplay. However, if a city has less than 50% of its culture from its controlling civ, there can be unhappiness penalties, and the city will potentially defect to the strongest influencing culture if the situation isn't remedied. Clashing cultures is a zero sum game. Cities never gain from having influence of multiple cultures; the only potential effects are happiness penalties and control flips. The religion system is a lot more sophisticated than the culture system, in this respect.

That's about it for game mechanics. As mentioned in earlier posts, many civics sound socially significant, but they don't interact with the issue of clashing cultures at all. There isn't a single civic which directly affects the (rare) happiness penalties from clashing cultures, nor the probability of control flips. The closest thing to a civic with interesting cross-cultural effects is Theocracy, which prevents rival religions from spreading into your empire. There are no civics which do this for culture itself. Basically, race just isn't really dealt with as an issue in the game.
 
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