How have the Persians managed this???

[Greyhawk1]

I'm nonplussed totally.

You can see the size of their empire yet:

a) Their Army is about the same size as mine.
b) Look at that GOLD!
c) They are at least two techs ahead of me?????

Also the Indians are two techs ahead having just researched Fission and are building the UN. They have far less cities yet have a bigger army and are out researching me. A good half of their cities are also in Tundra!

I'm playing the Koreans who get a Free Tech per age and I built the ToE. I've done lots of tech trading, I simply cannot understand this at all. I've got Copernicus' Observatory AND Newton's University in the same city.

This is at Warlord BTW, Huge map.

 

[Inter4]

Try Democracy instead of Communism

 

[Greyhawk1]

Democracy would render both my southern colonies almost totally useless due to corruption.

As it is, they are quite productive given that they are so far from my capitol.

But the fact remains I've used every trick I can think of, bigger armies, research wonders, large civ but I'm being overtaken by much smaller civs in tech. Not only that but they are amassing a vast sum of money AND keeping a large standing army of units to boot!

 

[Inter4]

Well...then....I think you're screwed.

 

[DiamondzAndGunz]

Well, did you try switching over to Democracy? Where is your FP, btw?

It might not matter if the southern colonies are useless, if it makes the core of your empire around your capital super-productive. Try switching over, and see if it changes your situation economically. Since they seem to be getting along just fine with empires roughly the size of your mainland, maybe you can overpower them by doing the same.

 

[DaveMcW]

Persia always gets the first tech of the modern age free (scientific civ). So you're not as far behind in research as it seems.

But communism still sucks. Forget your colonies, a well-built core under democracy will out-produce them. You can cash rush whatever you want with all the gold you get.

 

[Greyhawk1]

Well, OK, I'll try Democracy though the last time I changed I had 10 turns of Anarchy which at this stage would mean I would lose the game anyway.

The South Western continent was the Viking homeland but I had to conquer it after they declared War and threatened my South Eastern colony.

I'd just love to know how the hell the Persians got to 11,000 gold though, way way way more than anyone else in the game by about 9,500 gold.

 

[Matt_G]

Originally posted by Greyhawk1
I'd just love to know how the hell the Persians got to 11,000 gold though, way way way more than anyone else in the game by about 9,500 gold.

Because the have had a good strong core under Republic/democracy for most of the game. Communism sucks.
BTW, if you are planning on going to war do not revolt to Democracy. Go to Republic.

 

[Strider]

Also depending on what level you are playing on the AI cheats. So it might just be the AI cheating on you to try and take you down.

 

[jack merchant]

The AI doesn't cheat. However, on the higher levels everything is cheaper for the AI. Persia probably got its money from selling its free modern age tech - these are really expensive. I once sold a modern age tech in a deity game for 13,500 gold + 189 gold per turn.
I totally agree with Dave McW and Matt_G that communism is your problem.
Furthermore, there is no advantage in building Cop's and Newton in the same city, as they both double base research, i.e. the research bonuses are not cumulative. Your science city will also take a tremendous hit from communism, as a lot of commerce will be lost to corruption and thus not used for science, making the Wonders' research bonuses moot.

 

[DiamondzAndGunz]

Originally posted by jack merchant
However, on the higher levels everything is cheaper for the AI.

It does cheat. That is called cheating . Of course, you probably meant it doesn't cheat in terms of combat and such. But it does cheat, just to be competative with humans- it pretty much knows the map and where resources are, gets a trade bonus when trading with AI's, starts with free units, and just overall gets stuff cheaper (on higher diffs, of course).

Just trying to clear that up .

 

[Anti-EUA]

u gotta try democracy. usually if you have a large empire with forbidden palace, 2 or 3 bad cities are not a problem. u could probably put 30% or 40% in tech and research them in 4 or 5 turns. remember to sell them ASAP or trade for other techs.

or u could try to save money to safely steal a tech!

 

[Greyhawk1]

If, as you say, Communism sucks then why the hell include the damned thing in the game in the first place?

Its a late tech, specifically designed for the situation I'm in with disparate colonies widely seperated. Shared corruption means my long distance cities can actually build things in less than a human lifetime.

I fought a war for a long long time to beat the damned Vikings for that territory, strikes me I would've been better off leaving them to stew instead of taking it.

I bargained that Communism would at the very least enable them to be productive without the absolutely ridiculous Corruption rules making them totally unviable cities if they are one millimeter away from your capitol.

As for selling tech - fair enough. It still means that *someone* in the game had a vast reserve of gold laying about to buy the tech from persons unknown. As you can see from the map I have the largest territory so who the hell got the gold in the first place! Noting that in my continuous dealings with ALL the civs no-one had a red cent the entire time until this came out of the literal blue.

As for research enhancing wonders not counting if built in the same city - where the hell does it say that? Is it in the manual? I've never seen that rule anywhere.

Now the damned Indians are going to win the game by Diplomacy after somehow managing to get Fission from thin air...great.

I'm trying not to think that the AI cheats in more devious ways but damn - this kind of thing certainly makes it hard to accept.

Game abandoned.....

:die:

 

[DiamondzAndGunz]

Communism is mainly for prolonged wars. For the most part, it's either you like it, or you hate it. Some people like it as an alternative gov during war. Others just hate it because of the rediculously low commerce income you get compared to the representative governments.

Research-enhancing wonders do count, AFAIK. I have no idea where he got that idea either... Super science cities are based around the idea of building collossus, newtons, and copernicus, and that idea hasn't really been refuted thusfar...

And don't give up... Just because they build the wonder doesn't mean they're going to win! You still have a chance, keep at it.

 

[DaveMcW]

Originally posted by DiamondzAndGunz
Research-enhancing wonders do count, AFAIK. I have no idea where he got that idea either... Super science cities are based around the idea of building collossus, newtons, and copernicus, and that idea hasn't really been refuted thusfar...

In civ2 the science wonders multiplied the effects of each other, giving incredible science output when you had them all. In civ3 they only act like an extra library.

It's still good to build newton's and copernicus in your highest trade city (probably the one with the colossus). But if you build the Forbidden Palace in the late middle ages, and that city has the best trade, you should build newton's there instead of the city with copernicus.

 

[Hygro]

Originally posted by Greyhawk1

As for research enhancing wonders not counting if built in the same city - where the hell does it say that? Is it in the manual? I've never seen that rule anywhere.

That's not a rule. However, if two cites generate the same amount of commerce it doesn't matter if you have the science wonders in the same or two differant cities, as they don't multiple off one another, but only off the base commerce.

 

[Rowain deWolf]

Communism evens your corruption and negates the effect of distance to the capital. It is usefull if you hacve a city-count close to the Optimum-number of Cities. (24 on Hughe-maps)

Here you have packed your Cities far to tightly and since Corruption increases alot by city-number you have rendered your Cities completly useless. And by choosing Communism you have spread this useless-ness to your hole empire.

Persia and India are both below or on the Optimum number so their cities are far more productive and if they are in Democracy it is no wonder they can outresearch you.

To see how much you have crippled your own empire take alokk at your city-screen and see how much corruption and wasste you now have in your core-cities. and then use your diplomats to take a look at the Indian or Persian cities.

I have Communism used only once. In my second Game of Civ3 I switched to it for War-reasonses recognised the big loss in Commerce and Science and switched to Monarchy instead.(playing India Goverment switches weren't that bad)


Rowain

 

[Hygro]

with a FP you double the amount of good communist cities.

Yeah, if you have small, not too useful cites get rid of them and add the settlers to another city. Also, courthouses and police stations are REQUIRED for every city in communism

 

[Stapel]

Communism can be very handy when building the FP in a big newly captured far away city. This is the only way I have used communism. Only once though....

 

[The Last Conformist]

Unless you're really unpopular and India very popular, there's nothing saying they'll win the UN vote. Of the few times an AI has managed to build the UN in my games, about half they've not dared ever hold a vote.

If you think they'll win, you can either try change this by dragging other AIs into war with India (via military alliances and MPPs) - this causes plenty of ill-will between AIs, or simply try to bash India out of existence or at least the mood to build wonders.

Your southern colony looks pretty worthless. Does the SE one have the Forbidden Palace? If yes, Communism probably helps you not at all. If no, you could shift your Palace there.