I was thinking about writing a story about it. I love writing and it would be fun. It wouldn't be the first Fan Fic for a game I've written. I wrote an extremely successful one for Fallout 3 on a Fallout 3 board. I'll try it out.
How I'm doing
- Thread starter FuzzyDoom
- Start date
I finally got around to loading this up and it loads fine for me in vanilla as it is 1.29F.
The first thing I come to a worker. So I look in the town it is near. I see two jokers? I
see that you are running with the lux slider at zero. I also see you have the gov managing things.
I would not suggest doing either of those things, but maybe the jokers are the right move. I doubt that is the case, but we will see. The next thing I notice is all the tiles are improved, except three. Those are being worked on by workers now.
It is good to have tiles done, but I wonder if it is a good idea to have 6 improved tiles that you do not have citizen working? It is, when all towns are at that state. I would rather see those two forest tiles with a road, than all those idle plains irrigated.
We see 27 workers for I think 15 towns. Well not a bad habit, especially for C3C. However in vanilla you have two factors to consider. 1) Republic offers no unit support at all 2) Industrious trait get faster workers, they are reduced in C3C.
What that means is you can skate by with fewer workers and save the support, as long as you are able to keep the improvement matching the pop.
This first city I looked at is Gordium. It has a wall, but that is worthless in a city. It has a granary. It has a harbor. My perspective on those structures is that you have a +2 food city, why build a granary? If you had watered the cow and the deer, then it would make sense.
That is, if you were going to pump out settlers and or workers. You are not doing either and have little need of workers right now and it appears no plans to settle any spots soon.
So this is a waste of shields and maint, sell it. You are size 9 anyway. The harbor makes no sense as you are not working any coastal tiles and won't be. You have little need of boats as this is a Pan map with 60% water. That was a waste of shields and maint as well.
I look at F1 to see the deal on jokers. You have enough that using the slider is probably a good idea. I up it to 10 and go to the first place I see with a joker. It is Paasargade. I put the joker on a mined incense tile and gain 3 gold and 3 shields. Maybe not net as I did not check, but you only have 2 corrupt commerce and 1 shields, so probably net.
I see we are making a court house? What is the purpose of a CH? It is to reduce corruption and give a tiny boost to anti propaganda. Well we more or less do not have any corruption as we are parked right near the capitol. NO court house.
Again the tiles are in great shape. They should be you have industrial workers and 2 per town. Just take note of what tiles are and what you expect them to do. IOW, you have mines on mountains and they are never going to be worked.
You have a granary here, why? I understand you like to build, that does not mean you Have to build useless things. The place has to have a ton of care to get to size 8 prior to rails. Even rails will no little and they were far away when you made this pace in 1550BC.
Consider not making a granary in a town that has less than +3 food and likely to stay that way after some growth. IOW, it would not be useful, if you soon had to work 1 food tiles and 2 food tiles that can never be more than 2 food (coastal).
The value of realizing what you have and what you can expect from a site, is you put your resources where they will do the most good. This matters little at this level, but will as you move up or try to dominate the game.
That time and those shields and maint cost would be better spent on expanding or research.
Next I looked at Ecnegnev. Right off I need to tell you a court house can do nothing for the capitol. It has no corruption and never will. What it has 1 corrupt commerce? Maybe I have played C3C too long. Either way it is not cost effect to make a CH in the capitol.
You have a wall, so let me say something about walls in general. DO NOT build them at chief. Do not build them in capitol, unless you are playing an Always War game at maybe Demi God. There may be some cases where it makes sense, but not many.
You are not going to come under attack here, unless you are very inept. First you will soon have many towns surrounding it and no one should be able to reach it. The time to build a wall and the places to build them are towns that will come under attacks and towns that are likely to come under attack. This should not be core towns.
You are making Sun Tzu at 12spt. A simple thing to think about that is to get the town as large as you can. Again all tiles are improved. You could go with either moving one pop off a mine (1 shield) to the hill (3 shields) and save 4 turns or add in some workers.
If I am playing a Sid game I will try to get to the largest size I can by adding in workers as they get the tile to work improved. That is if I am trying to get the GLB, which I better be trying.
So you will have to run an increased lux slider to handle a larger pop. Now if you know that no one is close to starting the wonder and you can build it at your leisure, then fine.
Susa is yet another place that has a CH and does not require one. I am not going to say anything more about granaries after this bit. The food justifies a granary as long as you are popping out settlers/workers. Once you are done here and are at size 9 or 10, may as well sell it.
Cathedrals, I am against them. Yeah you may like them, you may even justify them in cultural victories, but we have neither here. We are playing at the lowest level. At chief you get to have 4 content pop. This means a temple and 1 lux will do for any town.
Look at Susa and see how things work.
A) cannot put all to work as you get 2 happy and 3 unhappy.
B) slider to 0% 3 happy, 4 content, 2 unhappy 1 joker as I found it yields
11 net shields, 25 food, 45 commerce, 18gpt, 25bpt, 2 corrupt commerce.
C) slider to 10% 5 happy, 2 content, 3 unhappy (no wonder I put him back to work).
12 net shields, 27 food, 48 commerce, 15gpt, 28bpt, 2 corrupt commerce, 3 gold to smiles.
You can now mine 1 of the plains, you have excess food.
I have no use for a cathedral here now. I can switch to a wonder that makes money, if it not too late like Colossus or Lighthouse or I can make a university. I would not make a cathedral.
BTW I know some of the granaries are free, but all the ones I looked at were hand built. The very first wonder I think it is best to learn to live without is the Pyramids. Not because it is not useful, but rather it will be the hardest to keep making as you get above Monarch. May as well learn to do without it.
I have not played Monarch in some time, but I suspect even there to build it you have to hurt your expansion a little.
Antioch will be the last one I look at as you should be seeing a pattern now. It is stuck at size 7. It is a low corruption city, so I would not like to see it stuck at this size.
It has no real need of a bank right now, it makes only 7 gold net. I put the clown back to work and now we are growing. Sell the granary and switch to a temple. This will help to get larger and ease the pain, if you lose the imported lux.
I forgot how useful it is to be able to see an icon for a barracks, so I cannot tell what cities have one a a glance. I would look for a few spears that are vets and upgrade them and put them in the border towns.
You do not have any horses, but you researched Chiv?
You have not a single attacker.
You have researched several optional techs.
You are not using worker gangs to clear jungle. I forget how many it takes in vanilla for an industrial nation, but use that many. You especially want to group them on the borders, so they are not exposed for as long.
Two advantages to work gangs 1) get them out of the front sooner and easier to cover with units, if all together 2) you get the tile back into production sooner. That may not matter in later stages, but earlier you gain.
You do not have the FP even started. I know it is very powerful in vanilla, but it is not worth anything when it is not built.
You did a fair job of using the rivers, but Susa should have been on the river.
Mareseilles should have been abandoned. Switch the CH to a settler, move it to the jungle on this side of the river. Pop out another settler and abandon Mareseilles and build on the grass on the river.
Now you have one more town, two on rivers.
Evaluate every town placement and every structure to see if they are needed.
Be aware that Engineering is very useful tech as it allows bridges. This can be a game saving and it can save worker turns. I have been able to defend against some dangerous attacks, because I could move legions over the river and not end my movement.
It is surely better to have Engineering than to have Printing Press right now.
The first thing I come to a worker. So I look in the town it is near. I see two jokers? I
see that you are running with the lux slider at zero. I also see you have the gov managing things.
I would not suggest doing either of those things, but maybe the jokers are the right move. I doubt that is the case, but we will see. The next thing I notice is all the tiles are improved, except three. Those are being worked on by workers now.
It is good to have tiles done, but I wonder if it is a good idea to have 6 improved tiles that you do not have citizen working? It is, when all towns are at that state. I would rather see those two forest tiles with a road, than all those idle plains irrigated.
We see 27 workers for I think 15 towns. Well not a bad habit, especially for C3C. However in vanilla you have two factors to consider. 1) Republic offers no unit support at all 2) Industrious trait get faster workers, they are reduced in C3C.
What that means is you can skate by with fewer workers and save the support, as long as you are able to keep the improvement matching the pop.
This first city I looked at is Gordium. It has a wall, but that is worthless in a city. It has a granary. It has a harbor. My perspective on those structures is that you have a +2 food city, why build a granary? If you had watered the cow and the deer, then it would make sense.
That is, if you were going to pump out settlers and or workers. You are not doing either and have little need of workers right now and it appears no plans to settle any spots soon.
So this is a waste of shields and maint, sell it. You are size 9 anyway. The harbor makes no sense as you are not working any coastal tiles and won't be. You have little need of boats as this is a Pan map with 60% water. That was a waste of shields and maint as well.
I look at F1 to see the deal on jokers. You have enough that using the slider is probably a good idea. I up it to 10 and go to the first place I see with a joker. It is Paasargade. I put the joker on a mined incense tile and gain 3 gold and 3 shields. Maybe not net as I did not check, but you only have 2 corrupt commerce and 1 shields, so probably net.
I see we are making a court house? What is the purpose of a CH? It is to reduce corruption and give a tiny boost to anti propaganda. Well we more or less do not have any corruption as we are parked right near the capitol. NO court house.
Again the tiles are in great shape. They should be you have industrial workers and 2 per town. Just take note of what tiles are and what you expect them to do. IOW, you have mines on mountains and they are never going to be worked.
You have a granary here, why? I understand you like to build, that does not mean you Have to build useless things. The place has to have a ton of care to get to size 8 prior to rails. Even rails will no little and they were far away when you made this pace in 1550BC.
Consider not making a granary in a town that has less than +3 food and likely to stay that way after some growth. IOW, it would not be useful, if you soon had to work 1 food tiles and 2 food tiles that can never be more than 2 food (coastal).
The value of realizing what you have and what you can expect from a site, is you put your resources where they will do the most good. This matters little at this level, but will as you move up or try to dominate the game.
That time and those shields and maint cost would be better spent on expanding or research.
Next I looked at Ecnegnev. Right off I need to tell you a court house can do nothing for the capitol. It has no corruption and never will. What it has 1 corrupt commerce? Maybe I have played C3C too long. Either way it is not cost effect to make a CH in the capitol.
You have a wall, so let me say something about walls in general. DO NOT build them at chief. Do not build them in capitol, unless you are playing an Always War game at maybe Demi God. There may be some cases where it makes sense, but not many.
You are not going to come under attack here, unless you are very inept. First you will soon have many towns surrounding it and no one should be able to reach it. The time to build a wall and the places to build them are towns that will come under attacks and towns that are likely to come under attack. This should not be core towns.
You are making Sun Tzu at 12spt. A simple thing to think about that is to get the town as large as you can. Again all tiles are improved. You could go with either moving one pop off a mine (1 shield) to the hill (3 shields) and save 4 turns or add in some workers.
If I am playing a Sid game I will try to get to the largest size I can by adding in workers as they get the tile to work improved. That is if I am trying to get the GLB, which I better be trying.
So you will have to run an increased lux slider to handle a larger pop. Now if you know that no one is close to starting the wonder and you can build it at your leisure, then fine.
Susa is yet another place that has a CH and does not require one. I am not going to say anything more about granaries after this bit. The food justifies a granary as long as you are popping out settlers/workers. Once you are done here and are at size 9 or 10, may as well sell it.
Cathedrals, I am against them. Yeah you may like them, you may even justify them in cultural victories, but we have neither here. We are playing at the lowest level. At chief you get to have 4 content pop. This means a temple and 1 lux will do for any town.
Look at Susa and see how things work.
A) cannot put all to work as you get 2 happy and 3 unhappy.
B) slider to 0% 3 happy, 4 content, 2 unhappy 1 joker as I found it yields
11 net shields, 25 food, 45 commerce, 18gpt, 25bpt, 2 corrupt commerce.
C) slider to 10% 5 happy, 2 content, 3 unhappy (no wonder I put him back to work).
12 net shields, 27 food, 48 commerce, 15gpt, 28bpt, 2 corrupt commerce, 3 gold to smiles.
You can now mine 1 of the plains, you have excess food.
I have no use for a cathedral here now. I can switch to a wonder that makes money, if it not too late like Colossus or Lighthouse or I can make a university. I would not make a cathedral.
BTW I know some of the granaries are free, but all the ones I looked at were hand built. The very first wonder I think it is best to learn to live without is the Pyramids. Not because it is not useful, but rather it will be the hardest to keep making as you get above Monarch. May as well learn to do without it.
I have not played Monarch in some time, but I suspect even there to build it you have to hurt your expansion a little.
Antioch will be the last one I look at as you should be seeing a pattern now. It is stuck at size 7. It is a low corruption city, so I would not like to see it stuck at this size.
It has no real need of a bank right now, it makes only 7 gold net. I put the clown back to work and now we are growing. Sell the granary and switch to a temple. This will help to get larger and ease the pain, if you lose the imported lux.
I forgot how useful it is to be able to see an icon for a barracks, so I cannot tell what cities have one a a glance. I would look for a few spears that are vets and upgrade them and put them in the border towns.
You do not have any horses, but you researched Chiv?
You have not a single attacker.
You have researched several optional techs.
You are not using worker gangs to clear jungle. I forget how many it takes in vanilla for an industrial nation, but use that many. You especially want to group them on the borders, so they are not exposed for as long.
Two advantages to work gangs 1) get them out of the front sooner and easier to cover with units, if all together 2) you get the tile back into production sooner. That may not matter in later stages, but earlier you gain.
You do not have the FP even started. I know it is very powerful in vanilla, but it is not worth anything when it is not built.
You did a fair job of using the rivers, but Susa should have been on the river.
Mareseilles should have been abandoned. Switch the CH to a settler, move it to the jungle on this side of the river. Pop out another settler and abandon Mareseilles and build on the grass on the river.
Now you have one more town, two on rivers.
Evaluate every town placement and every structure to see if they are needed.
Be aware that Engineering is very useful tech as it allows bridges. This can be a game saving and it can save worker turns. I have been able to defend against some dangerous attacks, because I could move legions over the river and not end my movement.
It is surely better to have Engineering than to have Printing Press right now.
Hate to tell you this but I abandoned that game a while back after I realized I was doing a bad job. Thanks for all the advice though! I'll be sure to follow it! I'd just like you to know you can come watch me fail live in my story that I'm about to start up.
Just one problem with that story. I cannot, for the life of me, remember how to embed images from my comp...and what format they have to be in. I put all my pics as PNG. Mostly because I uploaded some pictures to Photobucket a while ago and they worked as PNG images...please tell me they'll work.
Edit: Could I just upload them to Photobucket and embed them from there?
Just one problem with that story. I cannot, for the life of me, remember how to embed images from my comp...and what format they have to be in. I put all my pics as PNG. Mostly because I uploaded some pictures to Photobucket a while ago and they worked as PNG images...please tell me they'll work.
Edit: Could I just upload them to Photobucket and embed them from there?
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
That's what I do.
I think I agree with VMXA on everything, except the point about granaries. If you want a more militaristic game (which VMXA I guess assumes, since that's the way he plays), then granaries don't make sense. But, if you intend to do a lot of research, and plan to more play builder than command and conquer, than granaries can make sense. I know I put in plenty of granaries in my Huge SS Deity game.
How does it make sense to put up a granary in a town with +1 food? How does it makes sense to pay maint, yeah it is free for Pyramids, after you are size 10 or better. It has nothing to do with military. It just put more resources for something else, even universities.
As a builder, I just built any buildings no matter what the purpose. I'm not fixing that problem. And the reason things were needlessly improved...boredom I guess. The reason I had so many workers was because of a thread that said 2 per city for Industrious and 2.5 for non-Industrious.
VMXA said:
With just +1 food without a granary it takes 20 turns to grow pre-size 7 and 10 turns to grow with the granary. That's 10 more turns of 2 extra base commerce in a Republic, for growth from one size to the next size. Sure, you can add in workers, but you have to pay maintenence on them as you move them around also. You also need to basically take a size 5 or 6 size town with 5 shields per turn and 5 food per turn for a worker pump. In general, those come as the least corrupt cities, so that's a bunch of beakers missed by not having a library/uni. there and/or not working all too many squares in that city.
Of course you want universities, but why not both them and granaries? Paying maintainence makes sense in a space game, since paying maintainence basically converts cash into faster growth which means more beakers earlier. So, cash gets converted into beakers this way. Having core cities as worker pumps means less overall beakers possible, since you have the more corrupt cities producing commerce while the less corrupt worker pump doesn't produce commerce. With more granaries, then the less corrupt cities maximize science commerce... and since they'll probably grow faster than other cities, that means faster acquisition of beakers and faster builds on improvements like universities to further speed up beaker acquisition. This also leaves workers open for jobs like foresting and chopping to maximize shield acquisition. Having granaries also help when pollution comes in when a city maxes out population after hospitals.
Spoonwood, I would rather let it grow slower and take those shields and annex someones land. I can then have more of everything then.
FuzzyDoom there is not a bit of logic to what you said and I am sorry I wasted my time. I have to wonder what is the point of posting a thread asking how am I doing, if you intend on ignoring all responses? Good Luck.
FuzzyDoom there is not a bit of logic to what you said and I am sorry I wasted my time. I have to wonder what is the point of posting a thread asking how am I doing, if you intend on ignoring all responses? Good Luck.
Um... I looked at my response here:
As a builder, I just built any buildings no matter what the purpose. I'm not fixing that problem. And the reason things were needlessly improved...boredom I guess. The reason I had so many workers was because of a thread that said 2 per city for Industrious and 2.5 for non-Industrious.
I don't even know why I said "I'm not fixing that problem." That IS what I want fixed. I'm getting better at it. But yes, I do like building granaries and I only improve the useless tiles after the useful ones are improved, just so that my workers are doing something.
As a builder, I just built any buildings no matter what the purpose. I'm not fixing that problem. And the reason things were needlessly improved...boredom I guess. The reason I had so many workers was because of a thread that said 2 per city for Industrious and 2.5 for non-Industrious.
I don't even know why I said "I'm not fixing that problem." That IS what I want fixed. I'm getting better at it. But yes, I do like building granaries and I only improve the useless tiles after the useful ones are improved, just so that my workers are doing something.
Can someone please explain how the Forbidden Palace works? I know that it reduces corruption, but does it act like the palace and it loses affect the farther it goes, or is it equal everywhere? I've been hearing various things.
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
The FP works almost exactly like the Palace.
The only oddity is that rank corruption around the FP is based not on the cities around the FP itself but on the cities around the Palace. Hence the remote Palace exploit.
