How long between Apollo Program and Science Victory

[ackoman]

Hello,

I've been playing as Korea, on Prince, and been focusing on science. I got the Apollo Program after turn 320 ish, and I'm now building the SS parts. Problem is, I focused on Science so much that none of my cities have particularly high production and in general each city will take around 35 turns to build a part (apart from the capital where I have got the Space Factory as a result of Hubble, where the build time is obviously a lot shorter).

Is this normal? Do players who rush science then find that it takes ages to actually make the space ship? Or should I have found a better balance between science and production?

I'm still going to win, because I'm so far advanced over the others I could switch to a Domination victory at the drop of a hat, but I was just wondering if these sort of durations for the space ship build are normal?

Ackoman

 

[fimbul]

Ackoman if you are freedom you can buy parts in 1 turn, this is what i normally do so spaceship is normally completed a few turns after apollo. Else if you are trad-order you could faith buy GE and hurry parts. 35 turns for a part sounds very excessive for standard speed game.

 

[ackoman]

Hi - I am Freedom however I think I must have not unlocked that particular tenet yet.

 

[beetle]

OP, don't build SS parts until you have built the Spaceship Factory. You might need to work the tech tree differently, since that means unlocking robotics before ballistics. Even if a city only builds one SS part, the SS Factory saves twice as many turns as it takes to be built. I usually wait on SS parts until I have nuke or solar power plant too. With 4 city Tradition, most games I only buy the last part, and my least productive city will crank out a part in ten turns or less. Do you have factories everywhere?

 

[ackoman]

Do you know something? I think I've neglected to put factories in my cities! I've got the Space Factory in my capital, as a a result of getting Hubble (presumably it doesn't matter that I didn't have a standard factory there?) but nothing of that ilk in the other cities.

So, you'd build factories and space factories in all cities?

 

[stormtrooper412]

Ideally? Exactly one turn

Once you hit Plastics, lots of stuff must happen concurrently and you have to synchronize getting Mercantilism with Freedom lvl3 with getting enough money in the bank with bulbing your scientists with completing Hubble/PT/Pisa (each pushes the GS counter further). Easy

 

[ackoman]

Ideally? Exactly one turn

Once you hit Plastics, lots of stuff must happen concurrently and you have to synchronize getting Mercantilism with Freedom lvl3 with getting enough money in the bank with bulbing your scientists with completing Hubble/PT/Pisa (each pushes the GS counter further). Easy

Sounds a doddle. I'll try it this afternoon!

 

[beetle]

So, you'd build factories and space factories in all cities?

Yes, for sure w/ any city building a SS part. But I always build factories.

 

[sixty4half]

Hi - I am Freedom however I think I must have not unlocked that particular tenet yet.

Maybe you need to build more Culture earlier in the game. You should already have your third Tier Tenet by the time you build Hubble.

Freedom's tenet lets you buy SS parts for a base price of 3050 IIRC so you should stop using money to buy things or pay for CS favor quite a bit earlier than this. Once you have 12,000 (or once you're at a spot where mathmatically you'll be at 12,000 by the time everything comes together) you can spend money again. I say this amount because you should be able to hard build 2 SS parts in the city you made Hubble in before everything else comes together. I typically have 1 built before I'm done researching all the techs need for each piece, and have the other one down to 3-4 turns left by the time I can buy the other 4 pieces. That means I'm actually delaying my victory by about 4 turns after I have researched the final tech for the final SS piece.

Order's 3rd Tier Tenet lets you expend Great Engineers to rush build SS Parts. If you want to go this route you want to start your game going Tradition and you want to build a good enough religion so that you'll be able to buy a few with faith at the end of the game. You'll probably need somewhere around 5000 faith at the end of the game so you can purchase 3 GEs, and you'll get a free one when you pick the Order 3rd Tier Tenet. Faith purchasing a 4GE requires another 4000 faith so it's doubtful you'll hit the goal of 9000 faith. However; GEs won't pay for the entire hammer cost of SS Parts. So you'll probably want to save 2-3 GEs that you generate from Specialists once you start getting closer to the Modern era. If you have a total of 6 GEs from Faith/Order Tenet/Specialists then you can rush each one making the build time cost 2-3 turns depending on the towns production. Because of that, if you guy the Order route, it's beneficial to hard build a SS Factory in a second city. Then you can rush 2 at the same time and only spend 2-3 turns waiting for them to be complete.

This is assuming that you're saving 7 or more Great Scientists for you to Bulb the final techs needed for SS parts. Normally, once I get Satellites I'm using a GS to learn any techs that take longer than 3 turns. So I typically have about 17 turns after Satellites until I have all the techs needed. That's because I beeline through modern, so there's a few techs I have to go back and learn, and those are so small that it's not worth using a GS to learn. Also, I know it's going to take me 20 turns to hard build 2 SS units in the capital so I'm not in too much of a hurry.

 

[ackoman]

Maybe you need to build more Culture earlier in the game. You should already have your third Tier Tenet by the time you build Hubble.

Freedom's tenet lets you buy SS parts for a base price of 3050 IIRC so you should stop using money to buy things or pay for CS favor quite a bit earlier than this. Once you have 12,000 (or once you're at a spot where mathmatically you'll be at 12,000 by the time everything comes together) you can spend money again. I say this amount because you should be able to hard build 2 SS parts in the city you made Hubble in before everything else comes together. I typically have 1 built before I'm done researching all the techs need for each piece, and have the other one down to 3-4 turns left by the time I can buy the other 4 pieces. That means I'm actually delaying my victory by about 4 turns after I have researched the final tech for the final SS piece.

Order's 3rd Tier Tenet lets you expend Great Engineers to rush build SS Parts. If you want to go this route you want to start your game going Tradition and you want to build a good enough religion so that you'll be able to buy a few with faith at the end of the game. You'll probably need somewhere around 5000 faith at the end of the game so you can purchase 3 GEs, and you'll get a free one when you pick the Order 3rd Tier Tenet. Faith purchasing a 4GE requires another 4000 faith so it's doubtful you'll hit the goal of 9000 faith. However; GEs won't pay for the entire hammer cost of SS Parts. So you'll probably want to save 2-3 GEs that you generate from Specialists once you start getting closer to the Modern era. If you have a total of 6 GEs from Faith/Order Tenet/Specialists then you can rush each one making the build time cost 2-3 turns depending on the towns production. Because of that, if you guy the Order route, it's beneficial to hard build a SS Factory in a second city. Then you can rush 2 at the same time and only spend 2-3 turns waiting for them to be complete.

This is assuming that you're saving 7 or more Great Scientists for you to Bulb the final techs needed for SS parts. Normally, once I get Satellites I'm using a GS to learn any techs that take longer than 3 turns. So I typically have about 17 turns after Satellites until I have all the techs needed. That's because I beeline through modern, so there's a few techs I have to go back and learn, and those are so small that it's not worth using a GS to learn. Also, I know it's going to take me 20 turns to hard build 2 SS units in the capital so I'm not in too much of a hurry.

I think I concentrated on science too much and neglected too many other things (like gold and culture). I won my game but it was a slog at the end - I had negative GPT and happiness. I'd let myself get into a war with Greece who I felt was heading for a diplo victory - I guess I'll never know whether the war was necessary, but I'm pretty sure it held me up.

 

[Sclb]

Play freedom, and pretty much build spaceship parts and win 1 turn after apollo, and that includes transporting them to capital. I usually time Hubble to finish a few turns before that to get some extra GS to speed up final techs. You don't need many factories when playing freedom, only one in capital or another high production city is enough, where you should be building Hubble/Apollo.

 

[sixty4half]

I think I concentrated on science too much and neglected too many other things (like gold and culture). I won my game but it was a slog at the end - I had negative GPT and happiness.

Yeah, you can't just focus on one thing and expect to coast to a victory. You've got to create an empire that's well balanced in the other areas, but still mainly focused on your victory condition. You've got to build at least a couple culture buildings and the guilds. You should Ally with a culture CS or two to help with culture if you're not getting policies quick enough.

You need to build marketplaces and banks, and connect your cities with Roads or Harbors, and send a couple of trade routes to go get money.

You should have Shrines in every city. Probably should have Temples everywhere too, but at least in a few cities. Get a Pantheon that creates faith out of the tiles you're already going to be working. Try and get Pagodas/Mosques and buy those in a few cities. Cathedrals are a good backup and allow you to make Great Works of Art without having to build Museums (which really aren't needed for anything but a Tourism Victory).

I'd let myself get into a war with Greece who I felt was heading for a diplo victory - I guess I'll never know whether the war was necessary, but I'm pretty sure it held me up.

War shouldn't completely drag you down and prevent you from winning. Just try and keep your wars as short as possible. Have an objective before you go to war. If you're not going for Domination, you don't need to take his Capital, but taking an expansion or two doesn't hurt. You can always Raze them if you don't want/need them. Or sell to another AI. Another solid objective in a war is simply destroying all of his units. Just keep your guys in your borders, as he attacks, kill everything by forcing them into kill zones. Keep your archers in the back with a few melee in front to create Zones of Control. Use any bodies of water and mountains to create funnels and just kill each unit as it moves through your zones. Then move into his borders and sue for peace taking his Luxes and GPT. No need to take anything. But have a clear objective and once you've reached that objective, get out of your war. Another solid objective is to use Mounted Units to destroy all of his tile improvements. If you can destroy his army and destroy his resources, he won't be coming back for a counter-attack for a LOOOOONG time.