How Many Slaves Does it Take to Do a Job?

[Spoonwood]

I know that in Conquests on cleared flatland in Despotism/Republic/Monarchy/Communism before Replaceable Parts it takes...

6 slaves to build a road.

8 slaves to irrigate a square.

... It also takes 8 slaves to clear a forest...

12 slaves to build a mine.

12 slaves to make a railroad.

18 slaves to plant a forest.

On flatland, how many slaves do you need to:

1. Clear a jungle square?

2. Clear a marsh square?

3. Clear damage from pollution/clear damage from a bombardment crater?

On cleared flatland how long does it take to:

4. Build a fortress?

5. Build a barricade?

Please don't try to figure this out from the civilopedia or the editor for these 5 questions, as I know clear forest there isn't correct (build road, mine, irrigation, railroad, and plant a forest on the other hand DO match the game).

 

[scratchthepitch]

Look in the editor. Rules-worker jobs. Double the figure for workers that are not of your civ's nationality.

A few years ago I had modded C3C. I reloaded it a few months ago and started a game and discovered that slave workers no longer worked at the half rate of regular workers. I have no idea what I may have done to bring this about, since when I made the mod, they did only perform at half speed. Cant find my notes on the changes I made, either.

Edit: I figured out what I changed. It was due to changing the worker rate on the government rules page. When worker rate is set to 1, both slaves and regular workers work at the same speed. Probably because the programing uses 1 as the minimum rate.

 

[Spoonwood]

Look in the editor. Rules-worker jobs. Double the figure for workers that are not of your civ's nationality.

A few years ago I had modded C3C. I reloaded it a few months ago and started a game and discovered that slave workers no longer worked at the half rate of regular workers. I have no idea what I may have done to bring this about, since when I made the mod, they did only perform at half speed. Cant find my notes on the changes I made, either.

It gives you the same information as the civilopedia. It says 4 turns to clear a forest, when it should read 8 turns (or mining, roading, irrigation, and railroading need to get cut in half also). Irrigation reads 8 turns, and should match that of clearing of a forest. So, that doesn't help here!

 

[scratchthepitch]

It gives you the same information as the civilopedia. It says 4 turns to clear a forest, when it should read 8 turns (or mining, roading, irrigation, and railroading need to get cut in half also). Irrigation reads 8 turns, and should match that of clearing of a forest. So, that doesn't help here!

4 turns for regular workers to clear forest, and 8 turns for slave workers. Seems right to me. Slaves work half speed, so they should take 8 turns.

My copy has 16 turns for clear wetlands (your 1 and 2)

3. clear damage is 24 turns

4. build fortress is 16 turns

5. build barricade is 16 turns

Multiply these by 2 for slave workers to get 32, 32, 48, 32, & 32, respectively, for the number of workers needed to do the jobs in 1 turn.

Is this what you are looking for, or am I misunderstanding?

Edit: I missed the movement factor for the terrain type. The turns to complete the job needs to be multiplied by that number for roads, mine and irrigation. For the other worker jobs, I'm not sure it is multiplied.

 

[Spoonwood]

4 turns for regular workers to clear forest, and 8 turns for slave workers. Seems right to me. Slaves work half speed, so they should take 8 turns.

My copy has 16 turns for clear wetlands (your 1 and 2)

3. clear damage is 24 turns

4. build fortress is 16 turns

5. build barricade is 16 turns

Multiply these by 2 for slave workers to get 32, 32, 48, 32, & 32, respectively, for the number of workers needed to do the jobs in 1 turn.

Is this what you are looking for, or am I misunderstanding?

Edit: I missed the movement factor for the terrain type. The turns to complete the job needs to be multiplied by that number for roads, mine and irrigation. For the other worker jobs, I'm not sure it is multiplied.

The movement factor doesn't matter here, as I've assumed everything here to happen on flatland.

You've misunderstood.

1. Jungles DO take longer to clear than marsh. I know it takes 16 industrious (but I'm not sure if this is exact) works to clear a jungle square in a single turn, and 11 industrious workers to clear a marsh in a single turn.

2. The civilopedia gives the same numbers you've put here. The problem comes as I don't know if each of those numbers tells us about regular workers or slaves. Why? The civilopedia and the editor are NOT consistent in this respect. They both say 4 "base turns" (the civilopedia uses that term) for clearing a forest. Well, that works, if you mean 4 regular workers. But, the civilopedia and editor ALSO say 8 "base turns" for irrigating (times 1 for flatland). Well, that's 8 slave turns, because both jobs take exactly the same amount of time to do if you use the same units. In other words, if "base turn" means how long it takes a slave to do a job, both take 8 base turns to do. Thing comes as I can't tell how long the other jobs take (the ones I've posted I above I know from experience), because of that inconsistency. I also do NOT feel certain that cleaning a crater comes as a the same cleaning pollution... the civilopedia does omit information in spots.

 

[scratchthepitch]

The movement factor doesn't matter here, as I've assumed everything here to happen on flatland.

You've misunderstood.

1. Jungles DO take longer to clear than marsh. I know it takes 16 industrious (but I'm not sure if this is exact) works to clear a jungle square in a single turn, and 11 industrious workers to clear a marsh in a single turn.

I noticed your flatland stipulation, but forests, jungles and marsh are their own terrain. Flatland is plains, desert, grass, flood and tundra. Those all have a move factor of 1. Forest, hills and marsh have 2, and jungle, mountains and volcano have 3. The difference you noted between time spent clear jungle and marsh might have something to do with this movement factor, since jungles have the higher move factor. It might be something else, like each terrain or worker job has a hidden factor that is used that we don't know about or have access to. I know (or think I know) setting the time to 1 turn for some worker jobs (airfield, radar tower) makes those take 1 turn no matter what terrain, and uses up the worker. Unfortunately, I have not played the stock game in several years and the mod I do play is seriously skewed. I've changed all the factors to make the worker jobs match other changes. I remember that I wasn't able to get consistent worker times that matched the formulas, or what I thought they were, and just settled for getting the times in the right ballpark. Mostly, I wanted to reduce the time it took to do those jobs.

On the other hand, maybe the formula isn't exact and it's all just Firaxis math?

2. The civilopedia gives the same numbers you've put here. The problem comes as I don't know if each of those numbers tells us about regular workers or slaves. Why? The civilopedia and the editor are NOT consistent in this respect. They both say 4 "base turns" (the civilopedia uses that term) for clearing a forest. Well, that works, if you mean 4 regular workers. But, the civilopedia and editor ALSO say 8 "base turns" for irrigating (times 1 for flatland). Well, that's 8 slave turns, because both jobs take exactly the same amount of time to do if you use the same units. In other words, if "base turn" means how long it takes a slave to do a job, both take 8 base turns to do. Thing comes as I can't tell how long the other jobs take (the ones I've posted I above I know from experience), because of that inconsistency. I also do NOT feel certain that cleaning a crater comes as a the same cleaning pollution... the civilopedia does omit information in spots.

The civlopedia may be off due to changes made later during the design and they forgot to update it.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

On flatland, how many slaves do you need to:

1. Clear a jungle square?

2. Clear a marsh square?

3. Clear damage from pollution/clear damage from a bombardment crater?

On cleared flatland how long does it take to:

4. Build a fortress?

5. Build a barricade?

Please don't try to figure this out from the civilopedia or the editor for these 5 questions, as I know clear forest there isn't correct (build road, mine, irrigation, railroad, and plant a forest on the other hand DO match the game).

1. 48
2. 32
3. 24
4. 16
5. 16

My copy has 16 turns for clear wetlands (your 1 and 2)

3. clear damage is 24 turns

4. build fortress is 16 turns

5. build barricade is 16 turns

Multiply with the right movement factor and it is correct, i.e 'Clear Jungle' = 3*16.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

It gives you the same information as the civilopedia. It says 4 turns to clear a forest, when it should read 8 turns (or mining, roading, irrigation, and railroading need to get cut in half also). Irrigation reads 8 turns, and should match that of clearing of a forest. So, that doesn't help here!

I suppose it is again the movement factor that you have to consider for clearing forests, i.e 2*4.

I noticed your flatland stipulation, but forests, jungles and marsh are their own terrain. Flatland is plains, desert, grass, flood and tundra. Those all have a move factor of 1. Forest, hills and marsh have 2, and jungle, mountains and volcano have 3. The difference you noted between time spent clear jungle and marsh might have something to do with this movement factor, since jungles have the higher move factor.

Looks good to me.

 

[Spoonwood]

I noticed your flatland stipulation, but forests, jungles and marsh are their own terrain. Flatland is plains, desert, grass, flood and tundra. Those all have a move factor of 1. Forest, hills and marsh have 2, and jungle, mountains and volcano have 3. The difference you noted between time spent clear jungle and marsh might have something to do with this movement factor, since jungles have the higher move factor.

After I wrote the above, I went to bed, and while in the process of falling asleep realized I hadn't figured in the movement factor for forests. In other words, I misunderstood that "base turns" doesn't refer to how many slaves you need to job, but how much work needs to get down before factoring in the movement cost. So, clearing a forest requires 4 units of work before the movement factor gets factored in, and then factoring in the movement cost of 2 of a forest, you have (2*4)=8 slaves needed to chop a forest. Also, clearing wetlands costs 16 base turns according to the editor. So, that's 48 units of work for a jungle, and 32 for a marsh, which matches my experience of 16 industrious workers and 11 industrious workers needed respectively to clear that terrain. Thus, the civilopedia and editor seems correct (nor they omit anything about marsh or jungles), and Lord Emsworth should be correct also.