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How the A.I. works in BNW.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Magic of Friend, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. Cyanfunk

    Cyanfunk The Lion

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Messages:
    268
    Location:
    Huxley U.
    If you're going for a diplomatic victory

    "Hah, I built the Forbidden Palace just before you entered Renaissance! Suck it!"

    If you're going for a domination victory

    "Welp, time to use that Great Wall I built after he reached Classical."

    If you're going for a science victory

    "Got that Great Library in ten turns flat, the human's still researching animal husbandry lol"

    If you're going for a cultural victory

    "Yeah, I'll take that Uffizi, that Globe Theater, that Louvre...Hah, he's still researching the printing press!"
     
  2. Magic of Friend

    Magic of Friend Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2013
    Messages:
    22
    Im in game right now and getting the exact same thing. Brazil has had lines of musket-men and cannons on my boarder for as long as I can remember, but they will never attack, even though I only have a single crossbowman sleeping in my capital.
     
  3. spellfire

    spellfire Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
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    9
    this is not true at all, in my experience the AI constantly plots against everyone and anyone , as long as u do something that they dont like. the A.I in my experience shifts and plays differently just the same as a normal person does his strategy in one game and in the next game he tries another strategy.there are like a hundred examples i could refer to ,just keep in mind that just as you might be thinking , oh great those koreans are going to attack me , i might aswell build up some forces , or damn it he stole chichen itza from me ,i'll dow him soon enough and then you dont , its the same with A.I , things constantly change and their behaviour changes too. u just need to keep track of everything that's happening so u adapt to their behaviour while accomplishing your goals. and yes i play on 7-8 difficulty.
     
  4. Odans

    Odans Chieftain

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    Mar 21, 2013
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    27
    Location:
    London
    well first game i playd, atilla just spent it hording culture, rather than invading.
     
  5. MantaRevan

    MantaRevan Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,537
    This is interesting. We might have our culprit. None of the AIs are actually coded to be more peaceful. This would explain what's going on.
     
  6. Lil Sassy

    Lil Sassy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
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    edit: oh man wrong topic post.
     
  7. mdl5000

    mdl5000 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
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    366
    I must say, this is my first BNW game and I've never had so many civilizations be at friendly status with me for so long. Then again, I was producing the most science as Korea and the others were very willing to sign research agreements with me. We'll see...
     
  8. Princeofnigeria

    Princeofnigeria The illustrious

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    Nigeria
    Vanilla:
    Everyone- EXPAND, Conquer, DESTROY! SMASH!
    G+K:
    Ceasar, Monty, attilla, Genhis, elizabeth- BLAaAaAaaARRRGH! TO WAR!!!
    Washington, Cathrine, Rammy, Sulieman, Darius- OoOohhh!!! That one tile desert island looks good, OMG! That patch of useless snow and tundra has a fish next to it! DIBS!
    Hiawatha, Sejong, Ramases, gustavus- ... And that wonder, and THAT wonder, ESPECIALLY THAT ONE! All the wonders must be MINE!
    Haile, Oda, Gandhi, Maria, Napoleon- ... I SAW THAT! I SAW YOU PICK YOUR NOSE! DENOUNCE!
    Everyone else- Meh, we're just cannon fodder for those guys above us.
    BNW:
    Everyone- hey man, chillax. There's no need for violence brochacho. Here, take a hit of this peace pipe and look at all the wonders we stole from you. I'm sure it'll cheer you right up. What do you mean "were are your Defenses?", we don't have a need for those things, man!
    I'm just saying I'd rather have a selection of annoying cardboard cutouts than just one.
     
  9. asmartlittleman

    asmartlittleman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2011
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    I had a game where Shaka invaded me with about 5 Impi, a knight, a couple of swordsmen, and one siege unit. It surprised me because he never DOWed anyone until he got his Impi but i have not had anyone else DOW me.
     
  10. Spacefarer

    Spacefarer Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
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    Strange. I was just playing as Portugal on Prince, going for a cultural victory. I threw up three cities pretty fast, explored Tradition and Aesthetics, etc. From early on (Classical Era) China DoWed me. After fending her off for a bit, Attila then attacked. Immediately after the peace treaty expired, he attacked again. Siam builds all the Great Works wonders before me, so I decided to switch to science. China, who by this time has conquered the Huns, declares on me again.

    I beelined flight and took her second largest city, and now Siam and Spain are both plotting and denouncing. I had a bit of peace in the Industrial Era, but that was basically it.

    Before this game I played as Portugal as well, and Napolean DoWed with warriors and spearman, I fought him off and made peace. Then Assyria backstabbed me, and pretty soon I was in a two way war with those guys (which I lost, those Assyrian siege engines are something else). Both times I was going for a culture vic at first, I wonder if it has something to do with that? But my very first game with BNW I won a culture vic with Poland. So is it just Portugal?
     
  11. CornPlanter

    CornPlanter Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
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    1,066
    Location:
    Lithuania
    The thing is, everyone* played one or two games and rushed to forums to whine and complain.


    *exaggeration
     
  12. ptoss1

    ptoss1 King

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2012
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    653
    I trade embassies with everyone I meet just to see where the hell they are. Nobody attacks me. What gives?
     
  13. Shafi-is-back

    Shafi-is-back Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    360
    Location:
    Sri Lanka
    I dont know if we ar eplaying different games but im in the middle of my 1st BNW game and after reading all this i was taking it a little easy on the military, was focusing on trade playing as Morocco on continents / emperor / standard everything.

    My continent is shared with Russia, Germany and Ethiopia, and its really cramped for space, in G&K i would have had to play war as the AI would continually dow me due to proximity.

    They arent doing that in BNW, i have been able to DoF with germany as he doesnt "covet my lands" but the other two have been neutral.

    I guess i annoyed cath a little when i settled my 3rd city and when i bought a couple of tiles close to cathy both times she asked me not to do it again and i kept my promise.

    We all traded with each other and kept building an empire and then at turn 170 Cathy did DoW me, with quite a sizable army it was more of a challenge than the Dows in G&K since she had taken the time to build her army.

    I like this AI, they are not psychotic and they seem sensible. I dont know how people are going through entire games with only scouts.

    I had to to fight hard to keep cathy at bay and get her to agree to peace, shes got muskets now and i have only pikes + swords and xbows, i need to get some military techs asap or im kaput

    so far happy with game as far as AI aggression level is concerned.
     
  14. Veneke

    Veneke King

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
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    Location:
    Ireland
    Yeah, I really think this is the primary driver of the most recent concerns that the AI is now too passive. My first (and current) game is with all the new Civs and hostility has been on the light side. That said, while the AI is certainly more friendly than usual, Shaka managed to capture two capitals and Assyria wiped Venice off the map (the last city was Kuala Lumpur - seeing Venice's capital in a puppet was kinda funny) before the Renaissance.

    Having the AI catapult itself at you with absurd regularly, like it did in G&K and Vanilla, is not good but neither is an overly content attitude. It's a fine line to tread. There's certainly been an adjustment though and a noticeable one at that. However, it's almost certainly too early to tell yet whether it's gone too far the other way.
     
  15. headcase

    headcase Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn

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    Aug 12, 2011
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    Ontario, Canada
    The first game I'm playing on Prince is by far the easiest Prince game I've played in CiV. Granted, my 2nd city has Petra and is covered with desert hills with Casbahs on them, but even discounting that it seems too easy. I'll need to play more to know for sure, but the AI does seem a little soft so far.

    There might be a reason they announced a fall patch ahead of time.
     
  16. Morthis

    Morthis Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
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    What difficulty are you guys playing on?

    So far for me, first BNW game, I turned it down to King as Venice, no dows, on me, although 3 Civs did get wiped off the map during the course of the game. Since it was King I ended up pulling so far ahead of the AI they were afraid to dow.

    Second game as Poland on emperor. Start out buddy buddy with Shaka, ends in war (to be expected). I hold him off and he gives me a ton of stuff for peace so I accept. Second dow comes later, again hold him off. Third dow was clearly on the way when I decided to attack him instead. One civ wiped out on another continent, no other wars for me.

    Third game, on immortal as babylon. Celts come knocking on my doorstep around turn 60 with something like 8 warriors, a few pictish warriors, half a dozen archers and a GG. He never even settled a second city, he just built an army of doom and wiped me out.

    Start a new game, same settings. Get second city up, denmark places his third city right on my doorstep. He's got trade routes with me, DoF and was friendly, didn't stop the backstab. I'd been saving money expecting a backstab, I buy some CB and hold him off, try to push in but the terrain is terrible and he's got a zillion units streaming in. I accept neutral peace offer. 15 turns later he dows again, I kill the units again, still can't push in, peace. He continues to dow me like this every time, I've got 5 crossbows that have logistics and he's still spawning units faster than I seem to kill them. I ended up giving up on the game because I was hopelessly behind in tech by the end of all that and still didn't really make progress.

    Retry again, same settings again. I find korea, he's my bestest buddy. We have trade routes with each other (in fact all his trade routes are with me), we have a DoF, we have DoF's on friends, it's just a giant line of green bonuses to my diplo relations. Later I get notified he plans to backstab me, I start building units and scout, sure enough he's got a big army moving in. I apparently built enough units because he changed his mind and turned around. Fast forward another 50 turns and he's on my doorstep again. I'd grown lax on keeping my army upgraded because he'd been playing nice all game and I had so many positive diplo effects. Didn't matter. Still currently playing that game.

    So based on my experiences (which are obviously not much proof of anything since it's so few games), at higher settings, the AI is pretty much guaranteed to dow you if you do not have an army. I don't think you need to match his army if he likes you, but I've certainly not been able to get away with not having an army. I'm 3/3 in getting dow'd for being low on units.
     
  17. Bad Wolf

    Bad Wolf King

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    This.

    Honestly the game has been out for half a week, maybe play a few more rounds before you decide they've ruined the AI. The AI has always been unpredictable, at least for me. In fact, when they start getting friendly with me is when I usually get paranoid, as it often means they're getting ready to sneak-attack me. I was playing a game as Portugal the other day; Dido and Liz ganged up on me and Dido took one of my cities before I cut off her absolutely massive army (a dozen or so units compared to my 4) near Lisbon and destroyed it. So if I'm having any problem so far it would be that it seems the AI still sucks at war, not that they never declare it.

    (Was playing on Emperor btw, and wasn't expanding too aggressively, though I was taking land Carthage considered theirs which is probably what did it.)
     
  18. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

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    Without intending any offence to anyone, I think people should give it more than one or two games before claiming that something as unreliable and unpredictable as AI behaviour "needs fixing".

    Just saying... it's not even been out for a week, and I doubt very much that more than a handful of people have played five full games, let alone the 10+ that I would say form a fair sample size. The unreliability of first impressions has already been made clear by the number of people in these threads who have no experience of what the "problem" apparently is.
     
  19. Hakuoh

    Hakuoh Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
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    Well on my ongoing game the Ai was kinda aggresiv but not towards me.
    Lizzy and Atila fighted back and forth arround Turn 100 and Atila actually took her Capital but she recaputred it.
    Venice lost his Capital to the Indos and is stuck with a Puppet as his Capital now.. lol

    Over all iam a quiet peacefull Brazil and people like to trade with me.
     
  20. Zodan_Mir

    Zodan_Mir Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
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    The simple fact is that BNW is a different game. The AI is more sensitive to diplomacy, because it's a more important game mechanic in general (due to trade routes, etc.). Also, The difficulty settings and/or happiness bonuses are completely different in BNW. G&K encouraged warmongering, so it was harder to play at certain levels (due to the AI's unlimited happiness, etc.). Things are completely different now. Attempting to equate Prince level in G&K with Prince level in BNW is just dumb.
     

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