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How the Demographics works

Discussion in 'Civ3 Strategy Articles' started by Bamspeedy, Nov 19, 2002.

  1. DiamondzAndGunz

    DiamondzAndGunz Lurking

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    Yeah, actually, twice I think. Most recently, it's in my OCC. Having once city, it's easy to have 99% literacy ;)
    The other time, I was playing the peaceful builder type. Had like every single improvement in every city. Won a Diplomatic Victory. Yay.
     
  2. Lynx

    Lynx Chieftain

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    its really hard to do, but i did it in a diety game where i had only around 15 cities. it was a crappy game, but because i kept enduring war after war holding off loads of offensives, i got a high score.
     
  3. Marx

    Marx Chieftain

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    Wow I`ve been thinking about this but somethings don`t came up in my mind (Y)
     
  4. hbdragon88

    hbdragon88 haunted by blackness

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    It's easy to have 99% literacy. Well, at least on chieftain that is. Build library university reserach lab in every city and I think that does the trick.
     
  5. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    Or just have a research lab in every city, as that works just as well. (Great Wonder: The Internet).
     
  6. Plexus

    Plexus Architeuthidae puericomedentis

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    Thanks for all that, Bam. :goodjob:
     
  7. Jakooh

    Jakooh Chieftain

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    great work bam I spent lots of time trying to find out all that info on the web in the book and all over but thx to you the search has ended.. Oh one thing to add if you rush city production the added sheilds are also added to your productivity.... thought i might add that just in case cause ya never know.
     
  8. Curufinwe

    Curufinwe Socialist Elf

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    Actually I believe you're mistaken. I child per family is perfectly plausibe and still growth is possible. If you havea long enough life expectancy than when one child grows up, you get another one. So saying 16 years you could have quite a few children.
     
  9. Gainy

    Gainy Guest

    Bamspeedy ur thread is great, but i disagree with one thing.

    The approval rating thing - i though that was what all of the other civ's thought of you.

    Am i correct? (im probably wrong :p)
     
  10. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy We'll dig up the road!

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    The approval rating is what your citizens think of you. What the AI thinks of you would be attitude, and each civ would have a different attitude ranking towards you. Try increasing or decreasing your luxury rate and you will see your approval rating increase/decrease.
     
  11. Gainy

    Gainy Guest

    ok, i'll take your word for it :p
     
  12. satchel

    satchel Chieftain

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    Wow, I wrote that post a long time ago - never thought anyone would find it and respond.

    Anyhow, I think you are mistaken - it takes two parents to create a child. So the replacement rate, regardless of mortality, cannot possibly be fewer than 2 children per couple (and must be more if some individuals do not produce offspring). If the individuals in your population have a finite life span, then in the long term (for times long compared to an individual lifetime) a population producing fewer than two children per couple will dwindle, even if in the short term (times short compared to an individual lifetime) there is growth.

    Look at it with a concrete example. Suppose you have an initial population of 8, with a lifetime of 100 years per individual. Further suppose that every person has one child, at the age of twenty-five.

    year 0: population = 8 (A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H)

    year 25: population = 12 (A,B, and their child a; C,D, and their
    child c; E, F, e; and G, H, g)

    year 50: population = 14 (your original A-H, plus a, c, and their child x, and e, g and their child y)

    year 75: population = 15 (A-H, a,c,e,g, and x and y and their child z)

    year 100: now you start to see the dwindling. z has no one of her generation to mate with, and A-H all die. your population is down to 7 and will only shrink further.

    year 125: a, c, e, and g die - only x, y, and z are left. You get the point.


    Now consider the same idealized population, only suppose they have children at replacement rate - 2 per couple, if we assume every individual produces offspring. Now you will see that the population can sustain.

    year 0: A-H are born.
    year 25: A-H produce 8 more children (two per couple), a-h; population = 16
    year 50: a-h produce 8 more children, a'-h'; population = 24
    year 75: a'-h' produce 8 more children, a"-h"; population = 32
    year 100: A-H die, but a"-h" produce 8 more children, a'''-h''' to replace them, so population holds steady at 32
    year 1225: a'-h' die, but a'''-h''' produce 8 more children to replace them, so population holds steady at 32 again ... you get the picture.

    These are idealized populations, obviously, but hopefully it makes clear why you need at least two children per family in order to sustain a population (absent immigration), and more than that for growth.
     
  13. Aonghus

    Aonghus Rainwood

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    I agree with u satchell. Remeber though that the AverageAverage includes those who produce no offspring (on account of ugliness or other) and those who have 22 children. The average does need to be greater than 2 like u said, but remember the psycho hicks with 4 wives and 30 children.

    Also, why dont they just tell you the formulas in the civilopedia or something instead of you having to figure it out on ur own?!
     
  14. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    in this world today, with better medical this and that, the average children must be 2.1 per parent, which many european countries are not achieving.
     
  15. IceCreamEmperor

    IceCreamEmperor Chieftain

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    The statistic I've seen most often is that the national birth rate (presumably in a 'first world' nation) must be 2.2 children per family in order to maintain the current population. As has been pointed out, this would be one child per parent + .2 to account for accidental death, etc. It's unclear how these statistics model things like single-parent families and other non-nuclear family types, which are becoming increasingly common. I guess it might just be 2.2 children per 2 people.

    A lot of first world countries are currently below this rate, but some continue to grow anyways -- for example, in Canada I think the average birth rate was down to 1.8 a few years ago, but due to a lot of immigration the national population continues to rise.
     
  16. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    IIRC Italy is like 1.2 per family or someting like that...
     
  17. Aonghus

    Aonghus Rainwood

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    Those italians and their Birth Controll.
     
  18. TrailblazingScot

    TrailblazingScot I was kittenOFchaos

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    I'd love to see some screenies from real games showing the family size above 1. I can't remember EVER seeing this to be the case and I've had some VERY rapidly growing civilizations in my time as regarding population which I always go to some lengths to boost.
     
  19. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    This can't be right - I'm sure I've seen Life Expectancies above 20 years well before Sanitation.
     
  20. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy We'll dig up the road!

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    Well, each improvement counts as 33%. I probably worded that confusingly. If every city had ony a granary, you would have a life expectancy of 33, because every city has 1/3 of the improvements. If every city had a granary (pyramids) and half your cities had an aqueduct (I'm not sure if being on a river counts as a free aqueduct in this statistic), then you would have a life expectancy of 49.5 (33+16.5).

    The life expectancy is the % that each city has, averaged out. So, some cities may be at 33%, some at 100%, some at 0%, etc., so you'd have to average all the percentages out.

    The same thing applies to literacy rate, so this can be misleading. You could be a science powerhouse (you have science buildings in all your 'core' cities), but if you have alot of high-corrupt cities with no library and/or university in them, then you will have a low literacy rate.
     

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