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How to beat a strong navy

moordred

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 24, 2016
Messages
2
I was just wondering if someone has a tip on how to handle a opponent with strong navy/venetian arsenal combo?

In my game, England with the aid of the venetian arsenal crushed my navy, and is dominating the entire coast, effectively making my "colonial expedition" , slowly retreat itself to death without any chance of resupply.

Meanwhile my coastal towns/units close to the coast is bombarded to dust.

I feel this game is doomed, but perhaps I can learn something for next time so I dont end up in the same situation.
 
Sure... The Venetian arsenal is nasty but can get expensive. If playing against an MP player you may struggle a bit as they will be fairly cunning.
In SP the AI cannot produce units that fast as it has a poor production model for its cities and so its not the end of the earth. More likely the fact that they have a string navy.

First off defending your cities. It can be done fairly easily against frigates but gets a lot harder with battleships because that 3 tile range is nasty.
Having a ranged unit and a ranged ship in your city with city walls does allow 3 shots, add an encampment and you are talking 4-5 shots which will soon whittle down an attack. This is the foundation, defense first, as soon as the AI has a sniff of a navy get the walls up and get a few quads built and consider a couple of strategic encampments. You do not have to cover every coastal city but as long as you are aware a bridgehead will allow a large force to deploy fairly fast if it is behind the fleet.

For dealing with their navy, the AI is not good at Naval combat at all.
Most important is first shot. Having first shot in a turn based game means you The better visibility you have the better, but it is hard.
Having a combination of shooting ships and combat ships all moved to flanking positions before attacking provides the ability to kill more or larger ships in one move which is important. You need to practice to understand you do not necessarily need a +10 flanking bonus to win and kill one ship but totally surrounding when 2 partial surrounds with +6 flanking will kill 2 ships.
Using the great admiral also gives bonus and should not be ignored so make sure the great admiral is within 2 tiles of attacking ships at the end of every turn so next turn they get the benefits.
An error also made at sea is the support bonus gets lost because ships spread out. When defending you get support bonus for adjacency and so Huddle those ships around a great admiral before attack, attack and outflank but keep adjacent and keep that admiral in there and you get better bonuses and also cannot be completely surrounded.
The AI tends to shoot at max range but get your shooters in for that flanking and support bonus help

Against a navy twice your size you should win easily with the above... if larger you may consider the following

If you are attacking correctly and efficiently you are likely to do more damage than they will do when counter attacking, at that stage you need to assess if it is worth continuing or you would be better in a series of hit and runs. There are quite a few things to consider including speed of ship production and ability to combine.

Probably the most important thing is speed ... so the great lighthouse gives +1, England's RNDY gives +1 and admirals give +2 ... Whoever has the faster fleet has an implicit advantage in pursuit (ability to chase AND fire) and also more flanking opportunity. Flight does include lack of visibility and even a slower fleet can get some ships away but flight against a faster foe is a risky business. Speaking of which, the AI really does not deal with privateers well at all, that visibility difference can make a BIg diff, especially if you have sea dogs.

The mausoleum wonder is scary, doubling admirals charges.... I would rather have the mausoleum than the Venetian personally. Those admiral upgrades like early fleet /armada ironclad/battleship can make a BIG difference especially when doubled but also singly. But also a free upgrade twice with an admiral is really nice and Nelsons +50 flanking bonus twice allows a +20 flanking bonus, enough to take out higher level armadas.

Upgraded ships and better strategy combined snowballs the difference so well promoted ships vs their fresh built does help a lot.

Typically most of the above is on your side and they typically have less skilled ships being pumped out and badly sailed. I guess I should do a guide with some pretty pictures, its just the time ... Meh
if people think the above is really worth putting in a guide with a few other insights then perhaps.

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You are against England... so they will be +1 speed and have admirals... if they have the great lighthouse you have less chance but that still does not mean you cannot try! Loosing is great learning. I would try and muster a small fleet and give it a go.
 
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When defending cities against battleship keep in mind that their standard visability range is shorter than their bombard range. They need a spotter when bombarding out of your range. Kill the spotter, might be a submarine and draw them in.
 
When defending cities against battleship keep in mind that their standard visability range is shorter than their bombard range. They need a spotter when bombarding out of your range. Kill the spotter, might be a submarine and draw them in.

Yes, may work for the AI, does not work with anyone with a monkey brain. Push an ironclad in a square, shoot, back out the ironclad
Another option I quite like because I like marines is landing troops, its then soo hard for them to decide where to shoot, naturally ground troops have been cleared first
One little bug is the AI ground troops love to come and look at a shiny new enemy battleship, they just keep turning up and you keep trying to educate them.
 
Yeah, was talking SP of course. I love the raider ships for spotting (they can clear coastal huts and barb camps!), they have a ranged attack as well, but the melee ships have some nice promotions so depending on the situation I let them take the city bombard.
 
If the sea battle seems lost, try and counter attack from the air. Might be too late (or too early, it depends) if you havent started building aerodromes though.
 
nice idea and yeah... it takes time for the infrastructure but good anti battleship tactic. Its pretty rare they have a decent fleet let alone the venetian, I have never seen it in an AI game

Agreed. Never saw an AI have anything i would refer to as a fleet. Same goes for air units btw. Firaxis needs to tweak this.
 
For the BB defence, put arty and a balloon in the coast city. 3 range. If you have an encampment along the coast, put some in there too.
Get some subs out as well.
Bombers too.

I always try and make the VA just so the AI cannot.
(and that means I can just make a single ship, combine into fleet. Depending on build times of course)
 
The game in question was against a human opponent, which of course makes it more problematic.
(As in all games, there were also special situations that perhaps made this issue tougher than on a "normal" map.

I was in this case walled in with mountains surrounding my first 7 cities, with a choke-point along the coastline that all my units had to push through to get to Englands main cities. Which, as you understand from the description of the situation above was impossible. In a more open continent, that navy would perhaps not even exist due to different need of resource distribution for England.)

I tried to use artillery from the coastline, but without remembering the exact amount of ships vs art, the result was rather poor. It didnt feel like this is a "hard counter" unfortunately..
 
agreed and them playing Victoria just makes it worse, you are in trouble... she is a strong navy player with that +1 move but worse is to come when redcoats arrive, they are just so nasty and they will be beelining them if they have an ounce of sense, add that to Pax Brittanica and you are fairly dead.

Best defense when playing against a vic player is encampments on the coast and some ships in ports, even better settle inland
 
Maybe ballons to extend your bombard range? Never tried them myself though.
 
Assuming the opponent is a human player of decent caliber, AND they have a strong navy and you don't... I would say stay the hell off the coast. You shouldn't be able to do anything. Avoid unwinnable situations.

It would require an unusual terrain advantage to acquire naval domination once you have fallen behind... like being able to build up a fleet in an inland sea, or several narrow channels from which you could launch massive ranged attacks.

Even a non-Victoria navy can run in and completely maul your coastline, and you might get a shot off with your city if lucky.

If you expect navy to matter, push navy.

IF, though, I had no choice... and some putz was battleshipping me, yes, an airforce would be nice. I'd also use artillery with balloons and the Logistics card, and hopefully I'm Cyrus, so I rush gobs of artillery out to wipe out the fleet. But this would only work once. After that, the message is clear: 'you stay off my coast, and I won't go for a swim.'
 
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