How to change a target tile of cultural expansion?

[RStark]

In my game I have recently founded a city. It didn't make a cultural expansion yet. Within its borders the city doesn't have any tile with 2 food or more, so the growth rate is really small.
Adjacent to its cultural borders, the city has 3 tiles with resources: 1 tile with deer in the forest and 2 tiles with hourses on the plain.
I am really frustrated with the fact that the city is going to expand to grab two tiles of hourses rather than deer. Tiles with hourses give 1 food and 2 hammers, while the tile with deer gives 2 food and 1 hammer. I think it is vital for the city to grab the tile with deer ASAP in order to provide sufficient growth rate of its population.
I have already researched "hunting" but the city didn't change its next target for cultural expansion.
In another city my workers are constructing pasture for hourses. I hope that when the pasture is completed the expansion target will change at last.
Is there any way to grab deer before tiles with hourses?

PS I have gold to purchase the tile with deer, but I already assigned that money for other purposes.

 

[FeiLing]

If you had a granary the deer might be higher priority than the horses.
You could also chop the forest beneath the deer, if it is grassland (wouldn't help if it were plains), as that takes away 1 prod but increases food on that tile +1, which shifts the priority up. Also: A very realistic feature - harder to access tiles (forest, hills, tiles behind rivers, mountains, oceans, marshes) all take longer to acquire through cultural expansion than for e.g. grassland and plains. They'll be cheaper to buy and/or are more likely to be claimed first. Strategic/luxury/food resources makes a tile also more valuable, so it's more likely (as it is more useful) to be claimed even if it is for e.g. on a hill (like silver, gold and gems).

Interesting though that horses > deer, especially since no other source of food is available. I've made the experience that wheat and cattle for e.g. is > horses - which is weird as wheat is essentially similar to deer in regards to it's benefits. Might very well be due to the forest. If it was on plains probably all 3 of your tiles would be highlighted to be eventually chosen for the next border expansion.

TLDR: just buy it.

 

[Rex_Mundi]

As I recall horses, cattle and deer are all equal when it comes to culture expansion.

What counts in these cases is that flatlands > forrests, I do not recall if grasslands > plains, but if they are that could explain why you experience cattle > horses.

 

[chazzycat]

why don't you just sell the horses (45 gold apiece) and use that money to buy the deer?

 

[RStark]

Thank you for replies. So it seems I need to chop the forest with deer in order to change expansion priority (if under forest the tile is covered with grasslands).
Do you know if the city get 30 hammers when my workers complete chopping that forest which is not within my cultural borders?

Unfortunately I can't buy a tile with deer because each coin in my treasury will be necessary to upgrade and buy new soldiers very soon - my neighbor Mongolia began invading city states close to my borders).
I also can't sell horses for favourable price because it is a PBEM game (no civs controlled by AI). Nearly every player has his own horses.

 

[IvanCG]

Do you know if the city get 30 hammers when my workers complete chopping that forest which is not within my cultural borders?

Most likely 10 hammers.

 

[ense7en]

I so wish you could do this.

It seems the game likes to go for crappy tiles over good ones at harder difficulties, but maybe it's just my imagination.

 

[Brigg]

I wish it used the focus of the city as a factor. Production focus would weight to forests and mountains as so forth.
It does recalculate when you buy a tile.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

I so wish you could do this.

It seems the game likes to go for crappy tiles over good ones at harder difficulties, but maybe it's just my imagination.

i agree. certainly for buying tiles, on immortal and deity the good tiles are 100 or 150 while the basic tiles are 50g. but on emperor, strats/luxes are still the ones for 50 and "recommended". and when i desperately need a particular tile (iron, im looking at you!) they'll avoid them as the next expansion for a desert. definitely added to the idea of a higher difficulty level.

one thing ive never messed with for growth was getting Ankor Wat with the tradition opener because ive never fully understood the culture cost to expanding tiles. i seriously dont know if ive ever built it. i might have to try to see what kind of expansion changes AW can provide.

 

[FeiLing]

In my current game I just found a good example of how cultural border expansion works (omg, what an awful starting position... no production yielding tiles at all!):

5 pretty good tiles available for expansion are colored red. 6 very bad tiles are colored orange and purple. The purple ones are the next tiles to be gained, it's the 3 desert tiles that are two tiles away from the city. The 3 orange desert tiles are three tiles away.

Conclusion: very poor tiles within range two will rather be gotten than very good tiles, that are three tiles away and have some kind of natural barrier (rivers, being a lake or coast tile, hills and probably also forests). Luxury resources 4 tiles away however have a higher priority than very poor tiles which are 3 tiles away (orange), not though than the same very poor tiles only 2 tiles away (purple).

Spoiler :

Quite a few turns later the three desert tiles were finally mine, yay!
Still not getting the damn hill though... I believe the hill, lake and river grassland however were next before the three tile away deserts (no screenshot).

Spoiler :

Long msg short: You'll often not get what you want

 

[The_Quasar]

In my experience, this is what I've seen too...

You will always get the (complete) 2nd row of tiles around a city before any 3rd row with a river between. The same goes for 3rd row before 4th with a river between.

The biggest problem this tends to give is that it's not possible to buy tiles from the 4th or 5th rings, however, this can be hastened by buying up the inner rings.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

i didnt know that the purple tile was the next one to come. i always thought those were suggested purchases. thats good to know for future reference. i dont buy many tiles anymore except for needed strats.

im curious how cheap they can get with America and Angkor Wat.

 

[therottweiler]

i didnt know that the purple tile was the next one to come. i always thought those were suggested purchases. thats good to know for future reference.

This is a great piece of information. I did not know that either. Thank you.

 

[chazzycat]

Regarding 3rd ring vs 2nd ring, I think it depends on the type of resource. I know I've seen iron in the third ring prioritized over crappy 2nd ring tiles. You can even buy the 2nd ring tile adjacent to it, and the pink target will change to the iron.