How to detect shadows?

[kokoboy]

I know that the Metamagic I spell and falcons can detect invisible units.

However, I'm playing a game where there's this shadow unit owned by an opponent wreacking havoc in my territory, killing adepts and setting forest on fire (I'm Ljosalfar), and I can't detect it for all I'm worth.

I've tried casting metamagic spells where my last adept was killing, as well as probing with falcons that area: nothing. Do I have to point out the exact cell where the shadow is to detect him? Or what? He doesn't have Nox Noctis, just Dies Diei (that's why I can't retaliate with my own shadows).

It's driving me crazy

 

[DaveGold]

I believe that a recon unit with some visibility promotions will be able to spot the shadows. This seems your best bet as the other units, empyrean priests, golems with the sun chamber, etc., have specific requirements.

 

[Emptiness]

and setting forest on fire

Are you sure the fires aren't being caused by natural spreading? (When Smoke becomes Flames, adjacent forests that are unimproved have a chance to gain Smoke.) Unless your opponent is an Amurite, a Shadow can't start fires. An Amurite Shadow can only do this if Govannon first teaches it Fire I.

The reason I ask is that if the fires are natural then a Shadow may not be doing the killing. Are the Adepts that are dying protected by (in the same tile as) stronger defenders? If not, then it might actually be a Spider that is killing them. Spiders are not revealed by Hawks or Metamagic I - you would need a Scout/Hunter/Ranger/Beastmaster nearby in order to see the Spider.

If you are sure that a Spider is not responsible, then depending on your situation in the game you may wish to convert to Empyrean (at least temporarily) and build a few Priests. They can cast a spell that removes the invisibility promotion from all units within 3 tiles. Most units have no way to restore this promotion once it is gone. If the culprit is somehow managing to elude your Hawks (difficult, because the Hawk will reveal invisible units in a large area) then it will be easier to find that unit with Empyrean Priests - and once you do, the unit will probably be visible permanently.

Other solutions would be the Perfect Sight promotion (as DaveGold suggested), or Marksmen (which can see invisible units without needing to purchase a promotion first). The disadvantage of these is that they can only see the unit in a limited radius, and if the unit gets away then it is still invisible and can return to harass you elsewhere.

 

[kokoboy]

Yeah, he's an amurite, so I'm pretty sure the fires are started by him. He acts like some kind of guerrilla warfare commando: starting a fire, then killing the adept that goes to extinguish it. I kind of overcame that with a Champion with watchman promotion (the one that allows you to protect from assassin attacks the stack), going with the adept to protect him.

However it's kind of annoying because my priests of leaves can't go and bloom without worrying about an attack from an amurite commando. I've tried to detect the shadow with a hawk I have in the city near the fires, but to no avail.

I've got a marksman unit, could it be useful to bring him to that area?

Or maybe try to build 5 hawks and have them scout a large area around the fire, so he's got no chance of escaping? I mean, maybe instead of running back to his frontier, he goes the opposite direction and that's why I haven't found him yet.

 

[DaveGold]

The amurites have chanters, assassin units that can magically move back to the capital at the end of turn. They would need a telescope promotion to see them after that.

If you're running with FoL, the ancient forests can produce treants that stop the movement of the enemy. In the long run this might stop your enemy but it won't stop every individual attack.

If you send some tigers with the adepts/priests then the assassins may kill the tigers as the weaker unit, depending upon promotions. Without knowing the promotions on your enemy it's impossible to tell exactly what is going to be attacked first though.

Faster adepts should mean that you can get out to your forests to extinguish the fires and return to your city in one turn.

 

[Emptiness]

Amurite Chanters don't have invisibility, and also can't start a fire and teleport in the same turn. Multiple Chanters could be responsible (there's no national limit on them), but they would have to be moving from enemy territory without being seen even though they are visible. Without seeing the layout of the area, I can't be sure how possible that is - but it seems unlikely.

I would build several Hawks, and then send the Marksman with an (expendable) Adept into the area where this has been happening. (This needs to be an actual Marksman unit, though, not just a unit with the Marksman promotion. The unit can see invisible units, but the promotion does not grant this ability.) Have the Hawks standing by in nearby cities. If the Adept is killed then you'll have the Hawks and the Marksman to try to catch sight of the Shadow.

One other thing: if this Shadow is well-promoted (and you have to assume that it is) then it may have the Commando promotion (allowing it to travel on your roads) and Mobility I and II (increasing it to 4 movement points). This would mean that it could be moving quite a distance (8 tiles, or 12 if the Amurite has Engineering). The Shadow could also have Body I and so be able to cast Haste, increasing the travel distance to 10 (or 15) tiles - though one Shadow could not both Haste and Blaze in the same turn. You'll need to take this into consideration when planning what area you need to blanket with Hawk scouting. Unfortunately you can't pillage your own roads, but you can pillage roads on your border in enemy territory. This might limit the Shadow's ability to retreat into enemy territory after a strike, which could make it possible to catch it (if that is how it is hiding from you).

 

[seizer]

This might have changed, but in my experience hawks or floating eyes can't detect invisible units. In your situation, my advice would be to go all out war against the civ you think is responsible. He can't harass you if he's dead.

 

[PekkaR]

This might have changed, but in my experience hawks or floating eyes can't detect invisible units. In your situation, my advice would be to go all out war against the civ you think is responsible. He can't harass you if he's dead.

Just double checked in world builder. Hawks and Floating Eyes do see Invisible units (which also covers Hidden ones) but not Invisible Animals.

 

[Azhral]

The other way is to go Empy. Revelation (Priest Spell) will remove HN and Invisibility completely from any enemy units within 3 tiles. Also their Shrine makes it impossible for anything to be invisible in your borders (animals included)

There's also the Perfect Sight promotion, but I'm unsure if its been implemented yet, and you'll need at least a level 3 recon unit to get it (Sentry 2 is a prerequist). Unless you're the Luchuirp, then you can just build a Pallens engine.

 

[kokoboy]

Can't go Empy since i've got Yvain and don't want to lose him! War is coming and I need to be prepared for it.

I somehow have managed to avert the problem, as I entangled the unit with a druid. Well, I THINK I entangled him, because I casted entangle in a city and it said a unit had been held, even when I can't see him. Next turn, I didn't have any more fires or assassinations inside my borders. Nice!

I mean, I have to keep the druid there casting entangle each turn, but I don't mind, it was stationed there as it is a border city and we're going to clash in a few turns...

I suspect it's what Emptiness said, he had mobility promotions... Thanks for the help to everyone of course!

 

[kokoboy]

OK, I knew where the shadow exactly was, since I cast an entangle spell and, in the first cell past his border,near a city of mine, a "spell resisted" icon appeared, like if the unit was in that exact cell and had resisted the spell (also the log read "spell resisted").

HOWEVER, as I had a ranger with a hawk near, I pointed the hawk to that cell, as to uncover the shadow and guess what? Nothing appeared. Why can't my hawks see his invisible units? Nox noctis is owned by Auric Ulvin, not him

 

[Pickly]

Nox Noctis only acts inside the faction's borders, so that will have no effect at all in this case.

(I'm not sure what to do otherwise, unfortunately.)

 

[Azhral]

Hawks detection of Invisible Units is a bit iffy I've found. For a shadow, maybe try another shadow or just get control of Dies Diei.