How to get a rogue out of your city

[hotrodlincoln]

How does one get rid of a Rogue that simply will not leave my city? For whatever reason, I can not attack the Rogue when it's on one of my city tiles, and this particular rogue sees no reason to leave.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

You can't as far as I know.

 

[strategyonly]

Only way to do it is: have the option for Opportunity Fire ON, then have like 4-6 siege weapons (catapults etc), and the Rogue/Invisible unit will leave. Of course after be pulverized.

 

[hotrodlincoln]

Well, that sucks. My crime rate is shooting through the roof because of the rogue. Which would be fine if I could actually do something about it. I suppose I could just cheat and edit the rogue's promotions to have a few police promotions.

 

[strategyonly]

Well, that sucks. My crime rate is shooting through the roof because of the rogue. Which would be fine if I could actually do something about it. I suppose I could just cheat and edit the rogue's promotions to have a few police promotions.

I dont understand your so called "sucks?" Its not that hard to build a siege unit(s)? And turn on opportunity fire, actually might take you 30 seconds. . . SO

 

[hotrodlincoln]

I dont understand your so called "sucks?" Its not that hard to build a siege unit(s)? And turn on opportunity fire, actually might take you 30 seconds. . . SO

Because you don't have catapults until you are just shy of the medieval era.

 

[strategyonly]

Because you don't have catapults until you are just shy of the medieval era.

Aren't Hand Ram, and i cant think of the other one, Siege weapons?

 

[Yudishtira]

Aren't Hand Ram, and i cant think of the other one, Siege weapons?

Log Ram and Battering Ram can only defend (and bombard), are you saying that "Opportunity Fire" gives them the ability to bombard units in friendly cities???!!

And where is this "Opportunity Fire" option? I would have it on if I had ever found it, but I've never seen a bombard button on any of my siege units (or anything other than archers) unless they were adjacent to an enemy city.

Unless this option was only introduced recently.

 

[Yudishtira]

Well, that sucks. My crime rate is shooting through the roof because of the rogue. Which would be fine if I could actually do something about it. I suppose I could just cheat and edit the rogue's promotions to have a few police promotions.

What you might already have available is the "Town Watch" building and the other one that (I think) upgrades from it. Iirc they give -20 and -30 crime per turn (and are very cheap), so one of those on its own counteracts a Rogue.

If they are not available, get a Town Watchman unit asap. With the Policing promo, one of them is worth -10 crime per turn, and two of them negates a Rogue completely.

And for next time, try and keep a Dogs unit or an Ambusher in every city. Rogues can't enter a city that can see them.

 

[Koshling]

IMO we need to change this so there is way to remove them that doesn't revolve around cheesy side effects (how realistic is it to bombard your own city to root out a thief??).

Personally I'd just go for the simplest option, which is to not make cities anything special in this regard (so you can attack them if you can see them)

 

[rightfuture]

dogs with spot criminals buff. definitely dogs

 

[Koshling]

dogs with spot criminals buff. definitely dogs

Dogs enable you to see them, at which point anyone can attack (why not if there are dogs there too?), so doesn't this boil down to more or less what I suggested (i.e. - nothing particularly special about cities in this regard)

 

[strategyonly]

I wonder if i took out the Hidden Nationality, if that would be effective then?

 

[hotrodlincoln]

I wonder if i took out the Hidden Nationality, if that would be effective then?

If they didn't have hidden nationality, though, you would need to declare war to use them on your neighbors, which would sort of eliminate the purpose.

 

[Yudishtira]

If they didn't have hidden nationality, though, you would need to declare war to use them on your neighbors, which would sort of eliminate the purpose.

Well you can be invisible and violate closed borders without hidden nationality (because submarines do it). You can pillage your own improvements so pillaging shouldn't be a problem either. But it's true I know of no non-HN unit in any mod that can attack units without being at war.

Couldn't you make it that they are automatically expelled from an enemy city if they are spotted? Similar to how you're expelled from the enemy borders when the war or OB agreement ends. I just think there will doubtless be all sorts of problems attacking units in your own cities, plus I'd like them to keep HN.

 

[Koshling]

I wonder if i took out the Hidden Nationality, if that would be effective then?

That would have all sorts of side-effects I think. I'd rather just change things in the DLL to mean that cities are not treated specially for the purpose of invisible units (so an attempt to move into a city attacks the units just as I would if you tried to move onto any other tile that contained enemy units). That would essentially prevent rogues getting into cities in the first place.

Alternatively maybe we need a special action that can only be undertaken by units some new characteristic, to purge criminals from cities (would just bump them out of the city to an adjacent tile). This characteristic could either be an intrinsic property of a unit, or given via a promotion (e.g. - policing promotions)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

That would have all sorts of side-effects I think. I'd rather just change things in the DLL to mean that cities are not treated specially for the purpose of invisible units (so an attempt to move into a city attacks the units just as I would if you tried to move onto any other tile that contained enemy units). That would essentially prevent rogues getting into cities in the first place.

Alternatively maybe we need a special action that can only be undertaken by units some new characteristic, to purge criminals from cities (would just bump them out of the city to an adjacent tile). This characteristic could either be an intrinsic property of a unit, or given via a promotion (e.g. - policing promotions)

As long as the fix does not stop spies from entering a city to do their thing. I think the rogue basically uses the same sort of mechanism as the spy, but I could be wrong.

 

[Sgtslick]

I was thinking some sort of payment, similar to the rev payment to quell a cities rebelliousness. You pay to have heightened city alertness or some such thing, and then the rogue is caught/kicked out. It should be expensive though. At least with this method people are aware of the option straight away pretty much, without having to look through the civilopedia and promotions etc.

 

[BlueGenie]

The reason for having it a special case in the first place would be defeated then, i.e. allowing your own Invisible/Hidden Nationality units in your OWN cities being attacked by any unit from any nation you have Open Borders with.
I thought that was a more important issue than letting the AI (or other players) use your cities as safe harbours for their Invis/HN units.

Is there a way to solve both issues?

Cheers

 

[Thunderbrd]

Plan on the books: To give units an Arrest ability (generally for law enforcement units) or something along those lines, that represents the chance per round to catch a local hidden opponent unit - something that can be further developed with upgrades and promos. Then a counter-ability like 'Infiltrate' that the invisible units can further develop to counter the Arrest chance applied against them... then modifiers applied due to the nature of the plot/city and some buildings that add to local infiltrate or arrest (like bandit's hideout adding to the local infiltrate bonus etc...) And allow specialists like the planned 'Detective' specialist to enhance the local Arrest chance.

I will probably attempt a wider definition in the system that accounts for invisible units of various types such as those that spread disease, crime, etc...

Anyhow, it'll be a fairly large effort that'll take place during much further down the road Combat Mod development. The results of a success could be initiating a battle with the unit caught, or could be an automatic pushing of the unit out of the plot, or it could be a push back to the capital... but I'm thinking it'll be battle and will thus wait until I've designed a mechanism for attacker and defender to start from the same tile for combat (something I recently mentioned the desire to develop in another thread.)

EDIT: sorry Koshling... you mentioned much of this concept already in much fewer words above lol! It'd be nice to retain the ability for invisibles to enter enemy cities and go with something like what you and I are discussing there in your second option. But it would also be nice to have the ability to potentially limit some invisible unit types from entering opponent cities at all (I'm thinking of the new Felines here...) I believe we also discussed having cities have an 'entry check' as well, with a developable infiltration defense ability the city possesses and the ability to infiltrate being also the ability to get past those defenses to get into the city at all. You'd think twice about jumping out of a city to attack a worker in the field when you know its chancy to even get back in!