how to get pratorians?

Civ4newbie

Warlord
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Aug 8, 2007
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so I have a mine mining iron and another mine for copper as well with a road connected to the mines and the roads are connected to my cities. I also have the iron working tech and roman culture but for some reason I can't build any pratorian units, why? what is required to build pratorians? it seems to be the closest thing the game to legions since I couldn't find any legion unit's.
 
1. You first need the Roman culture wonder which requires Culture (Euopean) and Olives in the city vicinity.

2. Next you will need to have a city close enough to the Iron Ore resourse so you can build the "Iron Mine" building in your city.

3. After that Build and Iron Smelter. Which produces Iron Ingots.

4. Then build a Forge and an Iron Smith which will produce Iron Wares. Note the Forge will need a source of Charcoal as well.

5. Thus if you have Iron Wares and Roman culture then you should be able to build a Pratorian.

Note you could have done it with Bronze Wares too but then you would have needed a source of Tin Ingots to make a Bronze Smith.
 
i like the Metal Wares System as it brings Realism to the game :) nice work
 
I still don't understand the need for a '<metal> Mine' as a city building.
 
I still don't understand the need for a '<metal> Mine' as a city building.

You need to have the resource in the vicinity of the city. The resource also has to have the proper improvement on it to produce the resource and it has to be connected to the city via roads and/or rivers so you are actually getting the resource.

By "vicinity" it always means within the workable range of the city, so before you get to the point where cities can work the 3rd ring of plots it is the regular BFC.
 
I think what Taxman was wondering was why does the mod need to have both a '[Metal] Mine' and '[Metal] Smelter' building, when you could combine them into one without losing anything. You need the resource in the vicinity to build the mine, and you need the mine to build the smelter, and does anyone build the mine and then decide not to build the smelter?

Personally I think the Mines and Smelters should be combined into just smelters, and the '[Metal] Smith' buildings be made into auto-build if you have the appropriate smelter and the Forge. Get rid of the ingots, and now you can only trade the 'wares' goods and you only have a few of them since they only get produced in the city that mines the metal.
 
I think what Taxman was wondering was why does the mod need to have both a '[Metal] Mine' and '[Metal] Smelter' building,
Ah, You're probably right.
and does anyone build the mine and then decide not to build the smelter?
Me. Well, if I have more than one city that can get it anyway. The flammability and such can get pretty gruesome if you build everything you can build just because you can.
 
I mean building the '[Metal] Mine' building, not the improvement.

So would you build a 'Lead Mine' inside a city and then not build a 'Lead Smelter'? It seems to me the mine buildings are all pretty unhealthy without much benefit, and the smelter buildings are better.
 
I've always been against buildings that appear to be exact duplicates of the map resource improvements. So Smelters make sense to me, but the city building 'mine' doesn't. Nor do the city building 'grain gathers', '<plant> farms', '<animal> farms'. As another example: Once you tile improve horses with a pasture, then having to build a city horse farm before you can build horse trainers.

While we're on the subject of metal buildings... You don't smelt Bronze or Brass, or any metal that is combination of others. You smelt the raw ore to remove the stone and other impurities. Combo metals would be made from the ingots and thus go straight to the smith building.
 
I think the farm and mine buildings were put there because originally you couldn't have a city vicinity prerequisite be checked in the same statement as a building prerequisite. So if you wanted a horse trainer to require either horses nearby or a settled herd of captured horses you needed to turn those nearby horses into a building that can be checked in the same statement as the herd building.

I think as of several versions ago you can put simple OR statements surrounding different kinds of tags so it's now just a holdover.
 
I think the farm and mine buildings were put there because originally you couldn't have a city vicinity prerequisite be checked in the same statement as a building prerequisite. So if you wanted a horse trainer to require either horses nearby or a settled herd of captured horses you needed to turn those nearby horses into a building that can be checked in the same statement as the herd building.

I think as of several versions ago you can put simple OR statements surrounding different kinds of tags so it's now just a holdover.

Exactly. To remove them will take a lot of work also. I looked at trying to better implement the whole mining and trading line of buildings and resources keeping in mind the need to build units. To actually replace what we have with a new way will take some work that I could be spending doing other stuff. Maybe in the Eras mod where we can start from scratch with out the problems and limitations we had when we started C2C.
 
Exactly. To remove them will take a lot of work also. I looked at trying to better implement the whole mining and trading line of buildings and resources keeping in mind the need to build units. To actually replace what we have with a new way will take some work that I could be spending doing other stuff. Maybe in the Eras mod where we can start from scratch with out the problems and limitations we had when we started C2C.

I agree, i'd rather have your "hobby" time more generated towards stuff, that really need YOUR attention.
 
I think what Taxman was wondering was why does the mod need to have both a '[Metal] Mine' and '[Metal] Smelter' building, when you could combine them into one without losing anything. You need the resource in the vicinity to build the mine, and you need the mine to build the smelter, and does anyone build the mine and then decide not to build the smelter?

Personally I think the Mines and Smelters should be combined into just smelters, and the '[Metal] Smith' buildings be made into auto-build if you have the appropriate smelter and the Forge. Get rid of the ingots, and now you can only trade the 'wares' goods and you only have a few of them since they only get produced in the city that mines the metal.

Because there are more types of Mine buildings than there are map resources. For instance If you have Iron Ore and Silver Ore within the city vicinity then you can build a Manganese Mine. Manganese is not a map resource but a building produced one.

This allows us to have many more resources without having to have a map placed resource for each one.

I've always been against buildings that appear to be exact duplicates of the map resource improvements. So Smelters make sense to me, but the city building 'mine' doesn't. Nor do the city building 'grain gathers', '<plant> farms', '<animal> farms'. As another example: Once you tile improve horses with a pasture, then having to build a city horse farm before you can build horse trainers.

While we're on the subject of metal buildings... You don't smelt Bronze or Brass, or any metal that is combination of others. You smelt the raw ore to remove the stone and other impurities. Combo metals would be made from the ingots and thus go straight to the smith building.

Its so each type of metal has an ingot for trade.

Exactly. To remove them will take a lot of work also. I looked at trying to better implement the whole mining and trading line of buildings and resources keeping in mind the need to build units. To actually replace what we have with a new way will take some work that I could be spending doing other stuff. Maybe in the Eras mod where we can start from scratch with out the problems and limitations we had when we started C2C.

Well it would have been better if the resources on the map were actually terrain features. I know its gets confusing that you can trade the raw ore as well as get ingots, but reall the stuff on the map is more about triggering the vicinity buildings and less about the improvements on the tile.

I agree, i'd rather have your "hobby" time more generated towards stuff, that really need YOUR attention.

I agree we have spend too much time on this. It works, its not broken and WAY low priority. There is so much stuff we could be doing instead like multi-maps and nomadic start. Having both an iron mine building and iron mine on the map is not hurting anything. Its just not standard Civ vanilla, that's all. But not much of C2C is like vanilla civ anymore either.
 
I agree we have spend too much time on this. It works, its not broken and WAY low priority. There is so much stuff we could be doing instead like multi-maps and nomadic start. Having both an iron mine building and iron mine on the map is not hurting anything. Its just not standard Civ vanilla, that's all. But not much of C2C is like vanilla civ anymore either.

I agree that the mine case is not really broken. But I think the Horse sitch really is...:mischief:

I was thinking an early (early-mid-Ancient?) Livestock (ie. domesticated animal) Transportation tech. This could unlock a Horse Transportation infrastructure National Wonder (perhaps sometime later eg. in combination with roads). This would allow you to build Horse Trainers in cities without vicinity Horse.
 
I'm thinking a more dynamic way to collect and spread livestock is probably going to be the better solution there and it looks to be nearing on the project horizon.
 
I'm proposing a realistic/non-magical use of a National Wonder to benefit cities plural.
 
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