How to handle Demigod?

[floydmcw]

I can win just about every time on Emperor. So I thought I would make the jump to Demigod. I read some of the succession games on that level and noticed how the players would make deals with the AI for tech, and barter some techs they got to other players for more techs or cash back.

So I tried some games as the Aztecs, but always got my (butt-smiley) handed to me. In my latest game I had a pretty good start, with lots of flood plains. I made contact with all civs and swung deals to stay level in tech. I got to Monarchy pretty quick and switched.

At the start of the Middle Ages I started a war with a weak neighbor. After around 20 turns of war I had taken some cities and was close to my objectives (take a few cities and two luxes). Then another neighbor declared war on me. I was lucky that I could beat him back and pay other civs for help, but I was hopelessly behind. I don't see how trading for tech can work in the middle ages; everyone is the same 2-3 techs up on me.

Around the year 400 the two leaders had riflemen and I was still waiting for Edu and Gunpowder. What do I have to do to win on this level?

 

[player1 fanatic]

Hmm...

Mass of Trebuchets backed up with Knights or Pikemen can conquer enemy with Riflemen.

It would just need some heavy tactics.

Although personally I would try to rush for Military Tradition and forget about Education part of tech three.

 

[Trev]

I think that your choice of tech that you are learning was not the best choice. I have just switched from PTW to conquests, on PTW I would try to beeline for printing Press in the Middle Ages as they concentrated on the lower rows of the chart, and then Democracy using Printing Press to trade for some of the other Democracy prerequisites. On early games with Conquests this still seems useful although they seem to prioritise Democracy higher than previously, but good deals can still be made with it, even if you 3rd or 4th to learn it. In current game on Demigod, they bypassed some optional techs like Music Theory, Free Artistry and Economics until a little later, so maybe a shot at learning these can get you a tech first up on Conquests (would not work on PTW) that can be usefully traded.
Find a techline that suits you for trading and you will avoid getting behind, do not use 100% tax and buy techs, IMHO that path is unsustainable, the cost of needed techs becomes too high and you will get behind

 

[Trev]

Further to above reply, I played as Sumerians in my Demigod game and switched to Republic, not Monarchy, but only after I built about 4 marketplaces in my best cities plus a FP (from my first leader). The greater income from Republic once marketplaces and banks are built is probably essential to getting and staying ahead, and later I also switched to Democracy for even better income ( I had 9 turns of anarchy on first switch and 8 on 2nd), and I believe from the results they were both worthwhile.

Once in Industrial age, learn Medicine, Sanitation, Scientific Method, Atomic Theory and Electronics for your best trades. It is possible to get to the front in tech in the Industrial age (in middle ages I was generally 3 or 4 behind but still learnt techs I could trade) even if someone else builds Theory of Evolution ( which they did ) but with Atomic theory I traded myself to the lead and got a clear lead with Electronics
My game is not yet complete, but it is likely to be a 2 horse race to a spaceship, which I am confident of winning.

 

[floydmcw]

I guess I wasn't very clear. In the game I talked about, I was researching Education at 0% (with a scientist), figuring I could buy Gunpowder.

My real problem is that everyone gets away from me during the early middle ages. After the ancient age I am close to tech parity, and a decent army, so I fight my first war and go to Republic or Monarchy. When I come up for air after 30-40 turns, I am hopelessly behind. I have this problem on Emperor too, but the game is easier on that level and I can catch up.

Thanks to everyone for their help!

 

[player1 fanatic]

Well as I said, you don't need always newest tech to defet opponents in the way.

Bombard, bombard, bombard.


P.S.
Having low tech at Demigod, Deity is standard.

 

[DJMGator13]

Floyd,

Here are a couple of trading exercises if you are trying to improve your tech trading ability.

Trading exercises

There are 2 different save files there and you only play the current turn. Other players results are posted there as well so you can compare your results.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

No, that's nothing special; on Demigod, the AI will run away in the early Middle Ages. The hole is just not as deep as on Deity.Nothing wrong here with your gaming skills.
The reason is that Feudalism is now a Government tech, which the AI will only sell to the Human for ridiculous prices. And since you usually cannot trade (unless pointy stick'ed) for Republic/Monarchy, that essentually means two 50turn (or at least in that range) research runs for the Human, but not the AI.
To prevent that, there are usually 2 ways:
1) Play a SCI Civ; the free Tech,even when it's not Feud, usually makes Feud optainable.
2) The SEA-Archipelago map; while you wil be a little faster in researching, since the trades help with your income, the main isssue is that the AI does a lot worse when isolated.

 

[Trev]

Because the Great Library is active until education, the early techs in the middle ages are learnt and traded very quickly between the AI's, and therefore any 40 or 50 turn learning cycle with these techs will put you far too far behind, it is definitely necessary to raise your science to the maximum affordable rate at this stage of the game and learn some of these techs yourself, the other alternative is to risk an espionage atempt and steal a tech or 2, this is cheaper than buying and does not give the AI a kickstart with large amounts of money, admittedly I have not tried the theft of tech at this stage of the game, but I do steal tech much later, usually in the final age only, and that can be quite effective

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

To tell the truth, 10% is about the maximum rate I can afford at that time
(at least in Republic, since 20- 30% Lux and the unit upkeep hurt).
I usually do need the full 50 turns for Republic, and then I need a couple more turns to get my economy running. Thus, I usually end with a 50 turn run again, but make enough money during it later to steal/buy a Tech. However, it is not that problematic to catch up again with Banks and Unis (or Cannons and Cavalry)- unless one AI runs away with it...

 

[Chieftess]

What I did in my first game was to pack every city tightly, getting 10-15spt. That way, I could build MWs every 2-3 turns in about 10 cities. It worked pretty well.

 

[Longasc]

Hi, Doc already pointed out some very important things.

Let me add my thoughts about getting to Demigod from Emperor, as I did recently.

1.) Expansionist pays off even more. Luck (Techs instead of money), too!
2.) Scientific is great, as you get one tech at the beginning of the new area, lessening the advantage of the AI.
3.) I love Religious, too, because of the quick and easy temples. But that is just my style.

Map size and form are important, too -> Archipelago puts you in the advantage, because the AI will have trade problems, too.

Restart if your starting position is not at least good.

Use tighter city spacing, build more cities. I do not like it, but it pays off.

I value the Aztecs not so high! Take the Iroquis if you want to go for war, try the Arabs or Russia because of its trait combo. I would go for any combo with the Expansionist trait, take map size and form (continent, archi, pangea?) in account and you will do it.

It is really not sooo much harder than Emperor. It is hard in the beginning, but you will reach a breaking point soon, probably later than at Emperor, but you will reach it and then you will know: I will probably win to 90% now...

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Very good point: In DG, the EXP trait is stronger then in any other level; you get technically the same benefits like in Emperor, but since some of the outcomes refer to your strength compared to other Civs, you'll do better in DG (getting Settlers/Towns especially, because the AI does already start with 2 Settlers).

 

[player1 fanatic]

There was some post about good hut chances in these forums and according to it the chances to get setteler/city on demigod are the highest compared to any other level (14.3%+14.3%=28.6%).


P.S.
And that good to know, since I consider Exp trait wasted if not getting at least one such settler/city.

 

[Longasc]

You should rely on save/reload then, but I am usually glad when I get a Tech, and I am quite happy if I get 3 Techs and some gold from the huts. I am always pissed with maps of the region. The best thing with expansionist is that you trigger no negative effects like barbs - they can really stop settlers, capture workers, steal money or even kill your few military units in the early game!

 

[player1 fanatic]

I never do save/reload.

Maybe I restart the map if thing get really bad with Exp hut poping (someting even expert Sid players are not shy about).

Like when you start as such position that you only find 2-4 huts in entire game.

 

[floydmcw]

Well thanks everyone for your advice. I tried a game as the Indians, as Rel and Com are very powerful traits and the UU is pretty good. I was doing well with the trading, and beat up on a weak Netherlands. I entered the Middle Ages
in reasonable shape, with two lux, iron, and horses.

I spent 20 turns on a Feud run, then couldn't buy Mono, so I researched that too. Meanwhile I was building markets and raxes and libraries (some for culture to expand my borders). After I got Mono I could buy Chivalry, build some elephants, and go after the medium-strength Koreans to my south -- as long as the powerful Persians to my north would leave me alone. (I was buying tech from the Persians to keep them happy.)

Two turns before I got Monotheism, the Persians attacked . I played it out for a few turns, but it was hopeless.

I'll try again as the Celts. No one is more powerful then rel/ag/double-move sword. Time for the gloves to come off.

 

[Trev]

It is a big mistake to buy techs from a powerful neighbour, it only gives them the economy to become much more powerful, my preference is usually to buy techs from a weaker neighbour and keep them as a counterweight to the powerful neighbour. When trouble comes, a cheap Military Alliance or Mutual Protection Pact with right of passage will usually allow you to survive the onslaught of the powerful neighbour.

 

[tofe99]

Sorry, what is 'rax'?

 

[Chieftess]

It can be 1 of 2 things.

1 - Barracks
2 - Rapid Expansion