some things annoying me

[TheGrinch]

i dont play any other victory other than wipe everyone out, whenever i add other victories the game crashes after the victory so dont get the option to carry on and see if i could take them. ive turned off cultural city captures because i was getting annoyed going through half an empire fighting then having peace then losing all cities i took with loads of units without the AI having to do anything.

ive not got accelerated production on no, but i might have an answer to why they had so many units ready. i was in the middle of both empires and i used my units to block off the only path they had to each other by land so they had to fight over water, i done that because it was annoying and taking up to much time watching all the battles constantly every turn on my land even though ive got enemy moves turned off. i get the switch to philosophy and i am micromanaging my workers but my starting positions are horrendous with America. think the last game i started on the only sand there was on the continent

when i won on regent i managed to conquer both civs on my continent reletively early on which gave me free reign, on monarch im starting with another 4 civs on same continent and im nearly always stuck in the middle. the 1 time i did start on the outskirts another civ was nearly next to me and started building in my direction blocking me off so had to spend all my early time fighting them off

by the way i do really appreciate the help im getting here. i used to get mullered straight away on monarch but now i can hold my own until we reach cavalry - riflemen then im toast

 

[tjs282]

Blackbetsy how do i do that, im not very computer savy

If you're not sure where your savefiles are stored (Steam does tend to bury them in a long string of subdirectories), you can use Windows Explorer to search for "*BC.sav" or "*AD.sav" which should help you locate your ..[Civ3]/Conquests/Saves/ directory.

Then on CivFantics, use the "Attach files" button that you should be able to see below the Reply box, to attach your chosen .sav file to your post.

i can hold my own until we reach cavalry - riflemen then im toast

Yes, that tends to be what happens to me at Demigod, as well!

But if you want it to stop happening (and particularly if you've only enabled KTAATTS* mode), the trick is to make sure that you're the first one to get to MilTrad/Cavs. If you are, you won't need Rifles...

Spoiler * :

Kill Them All And Take Their Stuff

 

[Spoonwood]

But if you want it to stop happening (and particularly if you've only enabled KTAATTS* mode), the trick is to make sure that you're the first one to get to MilTrad/Cavs.

This though comes as something that doesn't scale up.

I mean, if one eventually wants to beat Deity or Sid, one needs to learn to "play from behind" sometimes, or at least at even technology against AIs. There can still sometimes exist opportunities to fight outdated spearmen and pikemen with cavalry. But, for the tech leader, that won't work. One needs/wants armies and/or cannons/artillery proper to take them on.

 

[tenny]

I advise strongly against that. Switch to republic ASAP. That usually implies that more than 50% of your workers will be recruited in the early republic.

Say your research of republic in turn 78 - 1050 BC is 1 turn remaining. You end the turn und before the new turn starts you get the popup to leave despotism and do of course accept. That means the on paper you leave despotism in turn 78. By that time you may have 10 workers. 30 turns later in turn 108 - 390 BC you may have 32 workers.

During anarchy you cannot produce, but you can grow. If this changes due military police no longer applying, then you may want to disband warriors to complete a worker during anarchy. This reduces your population, but during anarchy this is no loss, in fact it can be a win as it reduces unhappiness and thus increases your food surplus and thus growth.

I used to play like that, researching Republic and switching ASAP. However, it really does not add up if you still have to produce workers in your core cities to improve them. The cities are very small, and if you have a lot of workers and some defensive units, the unit cost become too much. Cities in Republic only grow faster if they already have a higher population, but creating workers reduces your population.


I do not recommend to wait to switch into Republic until you have all the workers you need, however your core cities should be able to just focus on growth, having enough workers to work the core tiles.

Civ3 is basically won (or lost) during the early game. The longer you leave the AIs to their own devices before making a decisive move against anyone, the further ahead they will get. And if you're habitually waiting too long, they will use that advantage to roll over you. Every. Single. Time.

I disagree in so far that the AI is bad at the game to such an extent that even when waiting longer, you can absorb most of the benefit. Just because their worker management is so bad. If a city with only grassland has no mines, it really doesn't matter how big their discount is, because there is no meaningful production to begin with.

On the other hand, if they settle in an area with only plains and start mining them, their cities simply will never grow to become powerhouses, even if they need less food in their storage box.

Then they build all these unnecessary things, unnecessary improvements, wonders, defensive units, offensice units they can't upgrade are all wasted shields they never get back. There are only so many shields that a civ will produce during a game, and just focusing on the things you really need to build will give you an advantage over someone who is building basically random projects.

ive not got accelerated production on no, but i might have an answer to why they had so many units ready. i was in the middle of both empires and i used my units to block off the only path they had to each other by land so they had to fight over water, i done that because it was annoying and taking up to much time watching all the battles constantly every turn on my land even though ive got enemy moves turned off. i get the switch to philosophy and i am micromanaging my workers but my starting positions are horrendous with America. think the last game i started on the only sand there was on the continent

when i won on regent i managed to conquer both civs on my continent reletively early on which gave me free reign, on monarch im starting with another 4 civs on same continent and im nearly always stuck in the middle. the 1 time i did start on the outskirts another civ was nearly next to me and started building in my direction blocking me off so had to spend all my early time fighting them off

Yes, with really bad starting positions oftentimes there is only so much you can do. When you see that you are getting behind, try to ally with other civs in wars.

But back to the amount of units: the issue tjs282 was trying to get at I think is that it is very unusual to see AIs on monarch having a mass of 100 cavalries, even without wars because cavalry cost very much, the AI grows its cities quite slow and builds a lot of unnecessary things. So the idea was that you might play with accelerated production, or that they had that army in a quite late stage of the game, i.e. a high turn count.

Since you mentioned that you did not play with Accelerated Production, was it later in the game, so after 1000AD?
I also wanted to ask you if you are producing wealth often in your city, so converting shields into commerce? Or are you not growing your cities enough (unhappy citizens, not enough money spend on luxuries)?

 

[Spoonwood]

I used to play like that, researching Republic and switching ASAP. However, it really does not add up if you still have to produce workers in your core cities to improve them. The cities are very small, and if you have a lot of workers and some defensive units, the unit cost become too much. Cities in Republic only grow faster if they already have a higher population, but creating workers reduces your population.

I don't agree. Two points to consider:

1. The earlier the revolution, the smaller the cities. Bigger cities can easily starve out or starve out more than small cities during the Anarchy period. It also can help to try to get cities to grow during the revolution. Unless playing 20k, I generally don't have any cities reach size 7 until the anarchy period or once in Republic.

2. Once Republic, tiles can get irrigated, and those food bonus resources become useful. Lately, I've gone with irrigating cities to get to 5 food per turn once Republic. You say that producing workers reduces population. But, a city with a granary in despotism and no food bonuses can grow in 4 turns if below size 7. With irrigated tiles in Republic and two tiles irrigate, that turns into 2 turn growth. A worker can get produces in 2 turns. So, that's 4 turn growth. But now, there's more workers available. AND the city ends up setup for faster growth from size 7 to size 12. Then on top of that, there exist more workers for development and the possibility of using forestry in the middle ages.

For a non-agricultural civ, the math ends up even better for revolting to Republic as soon as possible (and irrigating grassland tiles).

So, it can add up to switch to Republic as soon as possible.

The early turns of a revolution can get rough, with some cities still below size 7. But, if you can manage some gpt from AIs, or just do slower research for a short amount of time, it can work out well.

 

[BlackBetsy]

Blackbetsy how do i do that, im not very computer savy

When you post, you have an option to attach files. Just find your last save file from your Civ 3 folder. and upload it there Should be in a folder under Conquests. You can always search you files for one called "Autosave" and that should show you the folder and path.

 

[tenny]

I don't agree. Two points to consider:

1. The earlier the revolution, the smaller the cities. Bigger cities can easily starve out or starve out more than small cities during the Anarchy period. It also can help to try to get cities to grow during the revolution. Unless playing 20k, I generally don't have any cities reach size 7 until the anarchy period or once in Republic.

2. Once Republic, tiles can get irrigated, and those food bonus resources become useful. Lately, I've gone with irrigating cities to get to 5 food per turn once Republic. You say that producing workers reduces population. But, a city with a granary in despotism and no food bonuses can grow in 4 turns if below size 7. With irrigated tiles in Republic and two tiles irrigate, that turns into 2 turn growth. A worker can get produces in 2 turns. So, that's 4 turn growth. But now, there's more workers available. AND the city ends up setup for faster growth from size 7 to size 12. Then on top of that, there exist more workers for development and the possibility of using forestry in the middle ages.

For a non-agricultural civ, the math ends up even better for revolting to Republic as soon as possible (and irrigating grassland tiles).

So, it can add up to switch to Republic as soon as possible.

The early turns of a revolution can get rough, with some cities still below size 7. But, if you can manage some gpt from AIs, or just do slower research for a short amount of time, it can work out well.

I 100% agree. I didn't want to suggest you should grow your cities in despotism.
I meant that the first objective is to get as many cities as fast as possible, and in that phase your cities are very small with population between 1-3, given that it is not a settler/combo factory, and you have only very few workers. While in that phase, you might get Republic. However, Republic is not a good government if your cities are size 1-3 and not growing because you are creating workers.
But when your capital and your core cities have 2-4 workers working on their terrain and these cities are ready to grow, then it is a good time to switch to republic. Your outer cities may still produce workers, just not your cash cows.

 

[justanick]

I used to play like that, researching Republic and switching ASAP. However, it really does not add up if you still have to produce workers in your core cities to improve them. The cities are very small, and if you have a lot of workers and some defensive units, the unit cost become too much.

With proper planning it is likely that the early republic still yields a higher net commerce, so that is after unit support has been subtracted.

Even if some dire circumstances mean that this is not the case, then it usually still is the better idea to switch ASAP as this will help to develop your empire faster while the alternative of a delayed anarchy period will be more expensive compared to the early switch.

The high unit support fallacy can deter from switching to republic early even if that would be the best decision in the long run. There are essentially two cases in which staying a bit longer in despotism makes sense. You are in a war for your mere survival and cannot afford to loose production to anarchy. Or you have entered your golden age and donnot want to loose it to anarchy. Those 2 cases tend to coincide.

Actually, there is another case: Simply staying in despotism is the best option because the game is soon to be won and thus the cost of anarchy cannot be offset in a meaningful way. But as this means not switching to republic at all that is a whole different category.

 

[justanick]

However, Republic is not a good government if your cities are size 1-3 and not growing because you are creating workers.

Even then republic is the better choice. Early on your net commerce is higher because you have too few workers. Of course this is soon to change but this change pays off in the long run. A short term drop in net commerce is very much acceptable if this serves a higher purpose like achieving a higher average net commerce between turns 80 und 140.

 

[TheGrinch]

When you post, you have an option to attach files. Just find your last save file from your Civ 3 folder. and upload it there Should be in a folder under Conquests. You can always search you files for one called "Autosave" and that should show you the folder and path.

when i click attach files i still cant find the civ saves, i got it through steam so is there something i have to do there?

the last save i done i had just wiped out the empire above me but the ones below me where at war with them as well but the didn't reach any of there cities before i took them, they where attacking with long bowmen and medieval infantry. on there way back they decided to attack me but my pikemen and Knights held firm and even taking a couple of there cities, as they where defending with pikemen and spearmen. they even give me a city to accept peace so i accepted. a few turns later i got cavalry so as you can imagine i was buzzing because i knew i could bang a load out and go though all there 15 cities with ease.......but........no. i built up 30 cavalry and attacked, low and behold they are hitting me with not Riflemen no, but infantry, guerrilas and cavalry. now theres honestly no way i am taking cities with pikemen and spearmen maybe a couple of muskats then in the time it takes me to build 30 or so cavalry im suddenly facing that lot from the same empire. not just 1 or 2 but every city had 2 infantry minimum and guerillas running round everywhere killing me, that is just blatantly taking the piss, unless every civ is trading everything with each other that is impossible

 

[BlackBetsy]

when i click attach files i still cant find the civ saves, i got it through steam so is there something i have to do there?

the last save i done i had just wiped out the empire above me but the ones below me where at war with them as well but the didn't reach any of there cities before i took them, they where attacking with long bowmen and medieval infantry. on there way back they decided to attack me but my pikemen and Knights held firm and even taking a couple of there cities, as they where defending with pikemen and spearmen. they even give me a city to accept peace so i accepted. a few turns later i got cavalry so as you can imagine i was buzzing because i knew i could bang a load out and go though all there 15 cities with ease.......but........no. i built up 30 cavalry and attacked, low and behold they are hitting me with not Riflemen no, but infantry, guerrilas and cavalry. now theres honestly no way i am taking cities with pikemen and spearmen maybe a couple of muskats then in the time it takes me to build 30 or so cavalry im suddenly facing that lot from the same empire. not just 1 or 2 but every city had 2 infantry minimum and guerillas running round everywhere killing me, that is just blatantly taking the piss, unless every civ is trading everything with each other that is impossible

What operating system are you running? Mac or Windows?

 

[TheGrinch]

windows

 

[BlackBetsy]

windows

I think before you try to attach files, you should definitely do a search in your windows directory for "Autosave" - IF YOU HAVE AUTOSAVE TURNED ON (you should!). If you don't have Autosave turned on, you should search for .sav files, which should be Civ3 files. If you don't change the file names when you save, you can search for *AD.sav or *BC.sav as mentioned above.

Open any folder and use the search bar in the upper right:

If you are playing Civ3 through Steam, it could be that the games are stored in the folder: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common or some folder like that.

Once you find a Civ3 save file you can always copy it and paste it into a folder that is easier to find when you do "Attach files" here.

 

[TheGrinch]

heres a screenshot of my map at the minute, ive got so far into the game, i'm top left in blue on the map. ive researched destroyers and tanks and low and behold ive got no oil, everyone else has oil, they all hate me, so annoying to get so far and still have no chance even though i have quite a large map area. every time i attack the greens the white declare war on me then the yellows attack me and they both come at me with tanks and bombers and destroyers

 

[tjs282]

If they're coming at you with Bombers and Tanks, then you should be building Flaks (max. 4 per unit-stack; any more won't have any additional effect) and Arty (lots!).

And have at least a thin rail-net in place, so you can move your stack anywhere on your landmass and attack, all within a single turn.

Tanks can't attack on the same turn they land, so if you can redline them all, you've got a pretty good chance of killing them with just Cavs or Infs, or even Guerillas (A=6 vs. D=8).

TOWs or Marines (A=12) are also an option, if you have no Oil.

 

[TheGrinch]

yeah i like tows, i have every square of my land railed, ive never thought about using artillery i didnt know they could be used for defending air or ship attacks, i can build inf in some cities in 2 turns and thats what ive been using to fend off. was getting pretty annoyed at the ottomons attacking my infantry defence with sihapi horses, they killed 5 on the bounce 8 att v 10 def, never seems to happen the other way, i attacked a red lined tank with 4 cavalry and lost all of them

 

[tjs282]

Arty's no defence against Air units, but with A/D=0, they are unkillable, so immune to all types of bombardment. A stack of 20 is usually more than enough to wreck a full Transport's worth of units -- even if the AIs have started landing MechInf -- and you should similarly be able to redline almost any single 'AI standard' garrison of 2/3/4 assorted defenders per town/city/metro, respectively (AI capitals usually have about twice the 'basic' garrison), despite all the various defence bonuses available to urban garrisons.

And if you can get your guns in range of an AI Transport-stack before it lands its troops, you can redline the escort-ships to bring the Transport to the top of the stack, and then send in an Ironclad to sink it. Even if you lose the Ironclad next turn, that's still a good trade against the potentially 6 attack-units you didn't have to fight on your land.

 

[TheGrinch]

well ive just turned it off in a huff, had 15 artillary and bombarded a city down to 2 red line Mech Infs, had 4 guerillas, 2 cavs and 5 inf waiting to take it and didnt even kill 1 of them

doubt i'l be back on it for a while after that

 

[justanick]

Attacking MechInf fortified in a city with only attack 6 units is a bad idea. Choose your fights so that the odds are not stacked against your favour.

 

[Spoonwood]

I meant that the first objective is to get as many cities as fast as possible, and in that phase your cities are very small with population between 1-3, given that it is not a settler/combo factory, and you have only very few workers.

It sounds to me like you play a bunch of starts with no food bonus in sight. Or you don't try to look for them. I think I did 1-3 cities for a bit with those starts.

But, a city at size 1 produces 2 or 3 shields per turn. It's probably 3 shields per turn once the initial worker finishes up mining. Then the city might produce 4 or 5 shields per turn at size two. Once the worker finishes up it's second tile, it can be 5 shields per turn at size 2. So, under 1-3 growth, one could have possibly 30 shields without a granary at size 1, and then 50 shields at size 2. If you were rushing settlers, that's so many shields just not used! I can barely even stand seeing a city put out a settler projected to have enough production to produce a settler in 3 turns, when the city will grow in 4 turns, because then I've passed up using production.

Instead of 1-3 cities for spots with no food bonus in site I suggest you experiment with 2-4 cities for your capital and 2nd or 3rd city. Research Pottery if you don't have it. Build the granary after your first to three units for getting contacts with the AIs. And get a granary up.

If you have some worked bonus tiles (and in many spots you can have them), then your capital can produce 5 shields per turn at size 2. So, it can produce two warriors or an archer or spearmen. Then a settler with much less shield production given up. OR, I would prefer for the capital to produce a worker then while at size 2 and just having gotten to size 3. The more warriors or archers. Then with 6 shields per turn it produces a settler at size 3 and resets back to size 2 the turn it grows.

The 2nd and 3rd city can have a similar plan and do fairly well also, even with a little corruption.

For a non-food bonus start, the first objective is to setup a 2-4 combo factory. Then, figure out how to use to get into a strong position. More units once republic can mean quicker builds on granaries or courthouses (or libraries I suppose)... or for more obvious purposes if playing aggressively.

It turns out that granaries in your capital and first ring cities have MORE importance when you have no food bonus in sight. Because it's so much longer waiting to grow than if you had an irrigated grassland cow tile in your capital's radius. And you won't have cities as quickly.

Just settlers from a capital eventually with a strong food bonus or two can mean a settler pump. A settler/warrior factory exists, but it's not all that common on maps.

To simplify things, if you have food bonuses, get up settler/worker factories after a granary. Forget combo factories unless you can pay attention to detail, have fresh water.

If you have no food bonuses, get up combo factories. 2-4 combo factories I've felt easier to run than any other type of combo factory, and they have strong potential benefits in multiple ways, when you might not have a good trading or research position.