How to keep the REF from growing too large?

[TrevorB]

After many starts and restarts (I played too much like a Canadian... 30% tax rate? Sure!), I had my first good game, great amounts of production, guns and horses aplenty, and things looking good for revolution. But by 1706 the REF had gotten HUGE: 66 Soldiers, 37 dragoons, 65 Artillery, and 73 Warships. This seems way out of line with some other posts I've seen here.

I got wondering if I'm feeding the REF with my taxes and tributes. Does the REF grow in proportion to the taxes you pay to Europe, or in proportion to rebel sentiment, or guns (or all three?)

What proportion of guns/horses should you have versus the REF before declaring revolution?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Dale]

You can defeat a REF 4 times your size. It's about 50:50. Better ratios mean an easier time of it.

BTW, going by those numbers some people are going to say that's a tiny REF.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

I'm currently up against 100+ soldiers.

This is the first true game I played (my first attempt was pretty poor since I was just getting the hang of it!), so I'm not sure what to expect...

 

[Blackmantle]

To my knowledge (And according to Dale which perhaps just didn't elaborate because he could be sure someone else whould) its just (liberty) bells (produced by statesman-colonists in your Townhalls) which translate into ref-expansion.

Oh and you can get founding fathers without them allright. Just grab a master lumberjack + a carpenter or two early (any colonist turned lumberjack should provide 1 master carpenter if you can find a fitting spot to settle) and produce Politics-points with them. (Founding many colonies (like 8-10) and setting most of them to produce 3 politics Points each (thats the starting hammer for a settlement) each works as well and might! even be better. But thats if you like micromanagement since you have to manage all those colonies and play on epic or marathon to not lose many important turns from walking your settlers around. But playing epic is much reccomendable in my book anyways.)

Don't get bells / run statesmen without careful! preconsideration.
Also watch out that rebel sentiment is measured by colonists in settlements as well as! on guard-duty and outside of colonies.

Anything else right now seems completely unimportant with regards to the REF.
I completely pissed off the king (do i look as if i whould give him 6000 Gold in addition! to taxes? Im not that . Greedy louis), have a huge population, bought quite many a gun + horse and have got 3 or 4 of the early founding Fathers (no wonder, i know Col 1 + read some forum before buying (got burned by spore hoax ) and play on a lower difficulty with the new game right now to get accustomed to it. Will move up two steps or 3 should i kick the REF's butt.) and the Ref is still about 20 Units in all. I could easily overbid that if i whould aim to.

Oh and if an AI player is pestering you with nearby culture and expanding borders:
Go over and take his belongings. Double win and AI doesn't seem to have a real clue (at least on lower difficulties.).
Or if you are French and don't have the capabilities go to the natives and ask them to kick those annoying spaniards / englishmans / dutchs butt for you. They will do so with ease.


If you heed this you might get a REF which you'll be able to handle.
If not you might find a story were yor beleagered pilgrims () of the Mayflower are faced with the army Napoleon marched into Russia instead of some friendly natives who gift them food on thanksgiving.

 

[TrevorB]

A follow up. How late should you declare independence? How many turns do you need to win?

 

[Blackmantle]

Can't give a good answer to that. We have to wait for someone from the states who has allready played a week or so, or one of the playtesters to give a good answer. I whould presume the slower gamespeeds offer a bit more time and still alow a win in time with a bigger ref even with less relative 'turns' aka less years left.
(More reson to play on epic / marathon as long as the Ref bug / glitch is not adressed.)

But the time in years to get sentiment up to 50% should nearly if not exactely be the same as unlike movement costs are scaled by speed allright. (unlees those ref-size gets proportionally bigger the slower the gamespeed is. If Bell-cost-per royal unit is not scaled that is . Sure hope its not.)

 

[Andvare]

A follow up. How late should you declare independence? How many turns do you need to win?

Depends on the size of the REF. When I tested my little cheesy victory, the REF landed all it's cargo in 6 turns or so (and promptly got squashed).
Each Man-O-War have a cargo space of four, so divide that by the number of troops, and the number of turns to the old world, this should give you an idea of how quickly the REF will land.

 

[schmeeters]

I dont think my game is winnable. my army O/50/57/17 vs 379/138/36/77. i have 1600 horses and guns on reserve. what did i do so wrong? why did the kin get such a huge army?

 

[Dale]

That's actually a 50:50 call I'd say. Though more on the tough to win side if you haven't fought combat in Col yet.

Station your cannons in reserve on hills and mountains between coastal and inland cities, with a couple at each coastal city. I would forget fortifying coastal cities and place a minimal cover for them, as you should fight with that army between the coastal and inland cities. Make your soliders from those coastal cities (you're going to lose them anyways, so just depopulate them into soliders and get some use out of them). Use dragoons to soften their stacks up (concentrate on withdrawal promotions) and when they withdraw retreat them to repair. Then use cannons and soldiers from hills and mountains to finish the stacks off. Any GG's you get add them to your cannon stacks on hills.

Slowely play a retreat war, where you attack then retreat a few squares. Attack then retreat a few squares. You have the land, the land combat bonuses and the time. Bleed the King, but don't throw away forces unecessarily. If you won't kill the stack, find another one. Don't defend cities, as their cannons will decimate you. Attack their cannons with dragoons.

If you're lucky enough to have any indian tribes between them and you, do everything in your power to make them a defensive pact ally, and get them into the war. They will harass the King's troops and spread them out more for you. Very handy in your case.

Give it a shot. They'll come in 3-4 waves I think.

 

[Gliese 581]

I dont think my game is winnable. my army O/50/57/17 vs 379/138/36/77. i have 1600 horses and guns on reserve. what did i do so wrong? why did the kin get such a huge army?

That's 107 units and 17 ships vs 553 units and 77 ships, my god..
What difficuly level speed and turn/date was the WOI on?

Dale: Are you certain that's winnable? The king can bring 158 units per shipment if all ships sail at once so he's going to be outnumbered 2 to 3 even for each wave.
It seems to me it would depend highly on the map how spaced out his units and cities are and what FFs etc he's got if this is winnable at all.

 

[Dale]

Essentially, with a high rebel sentiment, and with all the combat bonuses he would get, it's possible. Like I say, play it like USSR in 1941, a fighting retreat and absorb the King, then whiplash to take him out.

Dragoons are the most versatile unit, with withdrawal AND bonus v siege.

 

[GenocideBringer]

Hmm. How do you stockpile that many guns? You'd have to either get a LOT of wagons to hold them or get the max upgrade and hold 300 guns per city.

 

[fooka03]

they don't all land at once, i have a rather large REF to deal with (400+ regulars) but I've been able to hold them off at their landing site. Seems like 6 shiploads come at once then there's a few turn pause before they come back. I have a good 30 dragoons waiting in the city with 10 soldiers for defense. As far as stockpiling guns your best bet is to have several solid inland cities (I have 6) that just pump out food, guns, and horses. Hell most of those cities have about 1100 guns instead of the max 900 just because I out-produce the spoilage rate. So as the frontline troops get depleted I can throw new dragoons in reasonably quickly. Of course the trick is for food is to export from all of your cities and import to one to get quick population boosts.

 

[obsolete]

My last game (beginner level) I had build a rediculous amount of dragoons after stockpiling tones and tones of guns/horses in wagons. Unfortuantelly, it was IMPOSSIBLE to win vs the huge array of Kings soldiers that landed.

I just don't know... what the hell is the point in city defenses? It's useless!

ANOTHER broken game mechanic. What is the use of building them? Remove them from the game altogether please, or fix it.

I have a suspicion the game is harder on beginner level than other levels. Something just seems..... sooooo wrong here.

 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I'm currently up against 100+ soldiers.

This is the first true game I played (my first attempt was pretty poor since I was just getting the hang of it!), so I'm not sure what to expect...

reached the revolution for the first time: REF was: 300 infantry, 100 cavalry, 100 artillery and nearly 200 ships. Against some 70 units of mine Needless to say that I was defeated quickly.

 

[player1 fanatic]

I just don't know... what the hell is the point in city defenses? It's useless!

They are great against natives. Especially against those with guns.

 

[GenocideBringer]

ANOTHER broken game mechanic. What is the use of building them? Remove them from the game altogether please, or fix it.

Natives, other european civs? Maybe the devs didn't want fighting the REF to boil down to "Get shitton of soldiers, huddle down in city, wait"

 

[Badde]

I stayed in the cities and let the king smash himself bloody against my defences and hardly lost a single unit. When he had lost his attacking units I took out his artillery with dragoons from within the city. I didn't face 100+ however since I had been careful not to draw too much attention, ie not that much bells early etc. I had maxed defenses combined with the relevant founding fathers and between 75-100& support in the two bigger cities which were the ones he attacked. I'm just saying that it isn't impossible to stay behind walls and win.

 

[Knut_Are_M]

build lots of small 5 pop colonies since they require very few liberty bells per pop to rise.
do not build too big cities, and you should be fine.
That means do not build an industri, but rely of raw resourses and food.
buy cannons and guns and declear independence.
a 5 pop town requirers 1/4 the liberty bells of a 10 pop city per pop.1/16th of a 20 pop.
If you want a big city, remember to put elder statesmen there, and do not exspect it to reach 100%.
Do not worry since rebel sentiment rises about 4 times easier during the WOI.

Settle very far from the Sea to counteract the needed time to reach 100%.

on the other side of the map is a very good place to settle if you aim for independence victory.
REF allways comes from the east.

 

[Axxon]

See thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=293730