How to keep up in tech?

[Chris Withers]

For me stealing is the only way after the GL expires at Sid.

I thought at the high levels one can pretty much never get any of the early wonders. Unless of course you get a Great Leader at the right time. I have tried for the Great Lib at Emperor a few times and always missed by a few turns. Then I read the articles in the "War Academy" about how one shouldn't even try for early wonders at high levels - they are a crutch & you won't get them anyway. So ... are you saying you can and do get the Great Lib most of the time? If so, how?

My noble attempts were to start right away at it with around my 3rd city, near the capitol. Research to Literature asap, then convert what that city was building (palace usually) to the Great Lib. Still a long way to go so maybe add a citizen, whatever to speed it along. Never seemed to help.

And then I found the other jackass civs would demand Literature off of me after I got it if I didn't trade it away. And go to war with me if I didn't give it up. Lately I've wondered if maybe I could build up enough swordsmen at the same time these evil empires wouldn't demand it then I could hang on to it long enough to get the G.L. Alas, before I could even try this somehow for the first time one of them beat me to Literature in this current game.

Perhaps it's a subtle matter of simple things like spacing core cities a bit closer? I notice from another thread that my tendency to space them a bit farther apart in a land grab may sort of be keeping me from the G.L?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The subtility is that it is essentially easier to build the GLib on Sid than on Deity or even DG. The reasons are that the AI is more likely to skip Literature here, and more important, the AA wonder cascades have ended before. If you miss the GLib on Sid, it usually fell to the Sun Tzu cascade. On Deity, it usually falls to the ToA or HGs.
Lots of strategy guides tell you to ignore the GLib. But, that doesn't aplly to Sid.
Aside from the 'Get rid of your wonder addiction!', the reason is the cost/benefit ratio.
Up to DG, you can easily keep up in tech anyway (or easily catch up later), and you'd get only a couple of techs from the GLib, not worth the 400sp. On Deity, you may get more techs - but, those 13 Swordsman will help you even more.
For Sid, the situation is really different. But, capturing that thing later is usually even better - for the most time, you'll capture it with Knights, and end in mid-Industrial .

 

[vmxa]

Chris you can get the GL at any level with a good start location. As Doc mentioned, that is often not the best expenditure of production.

At emperor you should need only a fair prebuild. First you need to get all the tiles improved that will be worked. Most should be mines. I sometimes come along and mine that cow, that I had irrigated.

Second you need to get the size to or close to 12. This tends to mean a temple and a lux and the slider. This can be done by adding workers after they finish a tile. I would probably only do that at Sid, maybe one or two workers at lower levels.

Demands at that early stages in an emperor game should be uncommon, unless you are quite weak and the land is nearly settled. SGL's are not that common at emperor and at Sid you don't care as they build wonders so fast anyway.

You can get at least one AA wonder and sometimes the Lighthouse as well. Of course the SoZ if you are the only one with ivory. I am happy to just get the Great Lib.

The thing about prebuilds is they are easier to do at emperor than Sid. I often do not have masonary and have nothing to use for a prebuild until 3 or so turns before I get Lit. At emperor, you can get masonry in a trade, a hut or even use some other wonder that has not been finished yet.

This is not so easy on Sid as you have little to trade. You only know alpha writing and Philo, but one other starting tech. Everyone you met likely has them and wants more than you can give. Huts you do not want. Wonders do not last long enough to risk using.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

How do you get a civ, which you have rightfully focused all your military might to destroy, to give you Techs? In the early stages AI is very willing to give you all their cities and techs to stay alive but in the early industrial era the Japanese stubbornly wouldn't give me anything despite being down to their last encircled city.

Is there any way I can tighten the noose even more to get them to hand over the techs?

 

[Lord Parkin]

I'm almost certain that the more troops you have in your enemy's territory (particularly right next to a city), the more worried they become and the greater the amount of payment they will give you in return for peace.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

I tried that one, I basically placed Crusaders in every city square and starved the poor fellas but they still would only give me one tech at a time. Meaning I had to keep breaking the Peace Treaty and upseting all the other Civs as a result.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Industrial techs are plain simply too expensive. If you nearly killed an Ai then, it indeed would offer you several thousand gp - but a tech several other Civs (like you) lack is worth substantially more.
You simply could use the discount and buy it...

Note for trading some techs are even more expensive than the pure beaker costs - all Gov techs, mobilization, drafting. Thus, you won't get Nationalism ever.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

Thanks Doc, what are mobilization techs? I assume Steam Power ect? Are there any articles on the exact cost of each tech?

 

[vmxa]

Mob comes with Nationalism. Beaker cost is based on a formula. You can find the base cost in the editor and many utilities will give the numbers.

Research Cost = [MM * [10*COST * (1 - N/[CL*1.75])]/(CF * 10)] - Research done so far.

Basically it map size and cost factor (level).