How to make vassals

[DrZiro]

I want to make a specific civ my vassal, and I can't figure out what's the best way to do it. If I declare war on the civ itself, I might have to bomb it down to just a few cities before it gives up, so then there won't be much left. (In some cases they might only have a single city to begin with, so there's not much room for attacking.) If I attack their friends they will obviously be unhappy. But ironically, if I attack and vassalise their enemies, their also going to be unhappy! So whom am I supposed to attack?

At the moment, I'm playing England on the 18 civ Earth map, and I'm trying to make Russia my vassal. It's not easy since they're pretty big and pretty far away. And apparently I declared war on their friend sometime ages ago, and their still whining about that. I also declared war on their enemy, saving them from a brutal asskicking by the Germans, but they seem to have completely forgotten that, ungrateful bastards. And of course attacking their hostile neighbours is going to make them more powerful, and thus I assume less likely to become vassals.

 

[Paw]

Easiest and surest way is to force them to capitulate. Even with powerful empires, wiping out their main SoDs (stack of dooms) and taking a few big cities (including the capital) is often enough to have them capitulate.

Once they've capitulated, you can always gift back (liberate via trade) cities to them to a) make them stronger and more relevant and b) improve relations with them.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Easiest and surest way is to force them to capitulate. Even with powerful empires, wiping out their main SoDs (stack of dooms) and taking a few big cities (including the capital) is often enough to have them capitulate.

Once they've capitulated, you can always gift back (liberate via trade) cities to them to a) make them stronger and more relevant and b) improve relations with them.

Gifting back the cities can be important if they're a long distance away or on a separate continent. Maintenance can hurt more than any benefit from the city.

It varies with the leader. Some (like Mansa) vassalize very easily (I haven't hurt you yet!) while others, like Genghis, you almost have to destroy.

Always remember to direct research and what city to attack in war (not that they will, but it keeps them from attacking other cities).

 

[lymond]

Yep, besides attacking also look at your power rating. BUG helps with this a lot. Some civs like Mansa (as mentioned), Ghandi, Hatty and even Zara may peace vassal to you at a relatively low power ratio (1.4 or thereabouts).

Warmongers civs are those with high unitprobs like Mehmed can be much harder to vassal even after taking a few cities - just keep plugging away and building units.

Regarding power rating, note that certain buidings like barracks, HE, walls, stables and castles add to your rating, although you don't always build these in every city or at all.

 

[Dave Hartwick]

I've read on these forums that something called war success is important. If you rely a lot on low percentage attacks, such as suicide cats, or if you allow a lot of your units to be picked off along borders or to counter attacks or whatever, the AI is less likely to capitulate. Or worse, will capitulate to another AI.

 

[Paw]

I've read on these forums that something called war success is important. If you rely a lot on low percentage attacks, such as suicide cats, or if you allow a lot of your units to be picked off along borders or to counter attacks or whatever, the AI is less likely to capitulate. Or worse, will capitulate to another AI.

Suicide cats are still a good idea. Losing a few cats is far better then trying to duke it out with full strength troops against their full strength troops.

War success will swing far to you favor when you lose a few siege at the start, but then proceed to wipe out a stack of 10+ units. Not to mention, capturing or losing cities has a much bigger impact on war success.

 

[lasombra1984]

Gifting cities adds "our trade relationship" it is max +4
Liberating cities through city window gives +1 bonus per city.

Some civs are more like to capitulate or even become voluntarily vassal (Joao, Gandhi, Mansa Musa), others are not (Charlemagne, Cyrus, Justinian, Montezuma)

 

[lasombra1984]

Suicide cats are still a good idea. Losing a few cats is far better then trying to duke it out with full strength troops against their full strength troops.

War success will swing far to you favor when you lose a few siege at the start, but then proceed to wipe out a stack of 10+ units. Not to mention, capturing or losing cities has a much bigger impact on war success.

Cats & Trebs with CR 3 is not a suicide troops at all (thats why Isabella has 2 UUs, not 1

 

[Dave Hartwick]

I find France to be stubborn about capitulating. In the game.

My definition of suicide cat is a catapult that gets a barrage promotion so that the city raider siege units have an easier go. My point wasn't that using suicide cats is a bad trick. It's more that reliance on attacking with units that have a low probability of success-- relying on quantity over quality-- could hurt the likelihood of getting an AI to capitulate, especially if one loses still more units by not properly giving movement orders or watching borders, for instance.

 

[Paw]

Gifting cities adds "our trade relationship" it is max +4
Liberating cities through city window gives +1 bonus per city.

I think Liberating cities is +1.5.

Because when I liberate 1 city, I get +1 for liberating cities.

When I liberate 2 cities, I get a +3 for liberating cities.

When I liberate 3 cities, I get a +5 for liberating cities (IIRC).

I've liberated more than 3 in the past, but can't remember what the + for liberating was.

 

[lasombra1984]

I think Liberating cities is +1.5.

Because when I liberate 1 city, I get +1 for liberating cities.

When I liberate 2 cities, I get a +3 for liberating cities.

When I liberate 3 cities, I get a +5 for liberating cities (IIRC).

I've liberated more than 3 in the past, but can't remember what the + for liberating was.

Anyway this extra bonus is useful)

 

[gilmore606]

In the game I just played, Pacal vassalled to me after hundreds of years of intense culture pressure on his border (I flipped two cities before this happened). Not exactly a quick route, but it did do the job.