How to play religious?

Yeah. I totally switched to Arabia now. The belief benefits won't be as good cause you are the last one to pick them, but atleast you can get a religion without sacrificing everything else. I think the main problem is that AI gets Astrology for free in the beginning and can pretty much build Stonehenge or a Holy Site from the turn one.

 

Would reducing the cost of astrology (but removing the boost) be enough to make religion viable on deity?

 

Yeah moving Astrology to tier 1 unboosted technologies would help. However I do like the concept of getting a boost to Astrology after finding a Natural Wonder. Another option would be to increase the amount of beliefs and religions available, this way you could not "lose" the religious race and there are after all new religions rising every now and then even in the industrial and modern age.

 

fwiw as russia you can almost always get a religion if you want to and it doesn't take as long due to half price lavras... if you're a scouter you probably get the boost for astrology half the time, maybe a bit less. If you slam out a project its pretty much for sure too.

 

Japan also has half-cost Holy Sites, with boosted district adjacency. Both Greeces and Poland can use the Great Prophet card right after researching Mysticism. Aztecs can also rush them with captured Builders (and captured cities might have a Holy Site of their own).

 

The main problem is not getting a religion, you can get it with any civ if you want to. The problem is the cost of getting religion, which is that you will lag behind your army building and expansion phase. The cost IMO of getting a religion is just too high and will put your civ into a major risk being dowed and conquered by the deity level AIs.

 

Get city walls and you will be fine.

Since my last post in this thread I changed tactics. Grabbing a religion via conquest if lucky enough then using inquisitors as pretty much the only R troops (the odd missionary as well) and just converting cities you take. Cheap and works quickly and simply and just kill any RU you come across with a few roaming light cav.

 

if you're that worried about getting killed after going for the religion then take defender of the faith. also you can't, imo, pre plan your strategies without seeing the map and ai layout; there are some games where it makes sense to get a religion and its benefits are great, others where the opportunity cost is too high. I guess the trick is knowing the difference

 

Í'd have to agree that limiting the number of religions/prophets should go. Investing in a religion is already a massive ordeal, and if you end up not getting a prophet it's game over. Restricting the number of religions doesn't really make sense, neither wrt realism nor game balance. Then again I feel religion as a whole is peculiar to say the least, I mean theological combat? Why not have prophets summon dragons or raise the dead while we're at it.

 

I was wondering if this was possible, good to know it is! City Walls is also a good idea, but won't work if you get dowed while you're still building your religious infra. Maybe if you're going straight to Masonry after Astrology and Mining. I think overall you do indeed have to be ready to defend if you are going for a religion. Still this again means that you are sacrificing your conquest thus the optimal way to win deity.

In that one particular game where I managed to get Stonehenge I did think of this because I was surrounded by those pesky Indian Varus and Chariots from Russia but choose to go another way before the attack begun. I agree with you 100% that do not have pre-planned strategies, evaluate the start which you are getting. Atleast it is easy to say if you should go for a religion cause the viability of this can be evaluated in the couple first starting turns.

Or how about even this wild idea I just had. How about your prophet points won't go to waste after this, instead you start gaining Apostoles with the points.

EDIT: Well that went nicely. I started as China, good production start with 3 x +3 cog hexes nearby, some mountains with 3 adjance bonus and 3 x +3 food hexes also. Chose to go scout, slinger, builder and after that Holy Site. Wen't for Mining, got Astrology boosted and went for that, then afterwards got Masonry boosted and went for that. After about 20 turns I discovered one barb camp and sent my slinger and warrior toward it, but it started spawning horsemen and horse archers and had to retreat to my city. Got Archery boosted and went for that and the +10 dmg while in district for my slinged which I soon upgraded to an archer. My warrior however got floored by the barbs but managed to defend with the slinger, soon after I started getting more horsemen from another barb camp and I figured I need to slam that wall down around my city asap since Norway also seemed aggressive and started moving his troops near my border. After that at some point I build a settler for the second city so I could build another Holy Site, but couldn't settle anywhere cause the barbarians kept coming. I played for a while and at some point I cleared enough barbarians so I could get my second city but it was too late to get religion. It was just too much defending and too many barbarians spawning from two camps and they just kept picking my troops which were outside the city walls.

Well I quess I'll give it another try.

 

Sod the optimal way to win, just enjoy!

 

It's not enjoyable if you get crushed all the time! =D

Last game I got pretty far. No barbarians this time, had a good starting position again with good cog hexes around and I even found a natural wonder again. I pretty much got Holy Site, Shrine and a second city with Holy Site up as soon as possible. There were a good deal of land between me and all of the other civs and no-one seemed threathening. I also got Masonry fast and was a couple turns short finishing the holy site and a wall around my second city until Rome showed up and pretty much got Arabia to joint war me. He pretty much instantly showed up with a Legion and 3 horsemen and started pounding my second city. It had an archer defending with the +10 damage when inside a disctrict and I started building the wall around it as soon as my Holy Site was completed but it was in vain. He conquered it before the wall was up. Couldn't have done much better in any places there.. maybe building a couple of archers instead of trader and a horseman but I build the trader before I was dowed and I chose to build a horseman and a battering ram because I had 2 horses and was thinking it was going smooth and I could start my conquest once I got a couple more horsemen. Also maybe I should have abandoned building the holy site and gone with the ancient wall as soon as I could.

 

A shame, a tip if you did not know is the AI has big trouble with walled cities, it need 3 soldiers one shooter and a siege unit or something similar before it will attack. If you distract one of those units it stops attacking

 

Just that you must be able to build those wall up before the attack!

 

Or suzerain Valetta and buy them with faith, which incidentally mix well with a religious strategy.

 

we are talking turn 30-40...not much chance of Valletta by then... unless you free it, in which case you probably do not need walls.

 

I haven't ever gone for a religious win per se, but I have noticed something that was also referenced by one poster in this thread early on and then not really discussed afterward: If you dominate early, prophets will still be available. Just don't pillage the holy site in the city you're about to capture. I had played for some time at lower levels thinking that I needed to create and control a home religion in order to defend against religious victories. Once I started playing at King or higher, I found that was not working or counterproductive. But ironically, the second I switched to an early archer rush strategy, I started seeing the Civs not getting or not going for prophets so soon. I haven't tried to take advantage of this, as I'm still trying to master domination at Immortal or higher. But it seems like it makes sense.

I do also know from playing with religion more in lower-level games that it can be a useful strategy to defend against other religions and build culture. Since Relics can help you get Civics unlocked more quickly with minimal investment before you start building museums, they can be helpful for several victory types. I haven't ever tried to max this out and I'm not sure how practical it would be at higher levels, but it does seem as though there's potential. So if you try a religion-oriented strategy after early expansion and conquest, you may still have plenty of fallback options for other victory types.

 

I still have yet to even see a need to go for religion in the first place, what policy is making it worth it? Or is this just a cuz I can kind of thing?

 

Mostly a "because why not" thing. Though I was satisfied with a Culture game with Russia using Jesuit Education, but that was mostly for fun and probably not optimal.

 

Had a good religious game today. I build 3 archers and ancient wall before I started building my holy sites on 2 cities. This seemed to do the trick defensive vise. It delayed my expansion phase for about 50 turns, but once I got my horsemen and chariots and spread religion to my nearest AIs it was total pwnage with Crusade(+10 strength for your troops near foreign cities with your religion on them). Have never been able to take that many cities in so few turns. It really pays off, you just need to get the starting right.