1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

[R&F] How to quick SV, share your view.

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Ziel, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Ziel

    Ziel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Hello all,

    I’m quite new here, I just follow trades usually and now take time to write some lines to come with a subject: how to quick SV in R&F?

    Thanks to people like Civtrader and Victoria, I really pump out my skills in late vanilla and was able to turn quick SV in 150-60 turns. I do think that a discussion around strategy makes sense and can be a commune construction.
    Of course lot of things change with R&F and a new way of playing has to be found.

    I had already a first game with Korea and was able to finish the game around turn 230 which is super late. What I have notice now on is:

    • No more +1 culture per district card.

    • Rationalism is quite nerfed (50% bonus with 10 pop cities/ 50% for +3 or more campus district adjacency bonus)

    • GS cost ton of gold even with merchant rep bonus (more than 11K for a modern guy)

    • Can’t keep inflow from Sagan for next project.

    • CS give bonus through district building only and no longer through district itself.

    • Of course eureka and inspirations nerfed hurt the butt in game.

    • I think, but not sure that latter science perks have seen their cost increased

    • Culture inflow from moon landing is nerfed (had only the half of a late doctrine)


    So in overall let’s say that old fashion way is no longer an option.



    Meanwhile there is also several buff in game that I have notice:

    • Adjacency bonus are stronger than before (+ 1 culture for theater district close to city center for instance, not have the math behind but its my first impression)

    • Governor plaza is a must for adjacency and building which help a lot (sweet +50% settler prod and free builders)

    • Good new policy cards with gov and age (+8 warriors strength with oligarchy)

    • Of course governors themselves (really fast and sweet wonder construction)

    • No need to chop space projects but a ton of builders are needed

    • Purchase space district with golds.

    • Maybe circumstantial but alliances are very powerful (level 3 commercial alliance grants 60 golds per trade routes without globalization)


    So far these lists are not exhaustive and are more linked to a first impression than a solid analysis. But, I do believe that culture is key. Inspirations are not enough to go through the doctrines early on and globalization is an absolute must have (less GS means having a power source of science is mandatory), and we need a lot of prod as well to build all those builders.

    Early Great Writers are even better than before then and as we need, anyway, 10 pop cities and adjacency bonuses for district, having 3 to 4 district per cities make sense (as we chop, purchase or build them faster with gov, it’s acceptable). The quickest we go in culture better governors will be (promote coming with culture and governor building as well).

    Trade roads are still very important in my understanding, an alliance level one in culture is like having Kumasi on our side. The question is how alliance upgrades, if we can turn a cultural alliance level 3 into a commercial alliance level 3, it’s a power house to buy every single science building with democracy (and space port of course).

    So my first impression is we need to build theater district asap to keep an acceptable amount of culture. The goal is to aim as fast as possible first gov (first gov, first plaza gov building, plus 3 gov promote), then alliance and second building, go for democracy, then pump out science, finalize with globalization.

    Science is as usual the same way, not sure that 3 or more space port are needed but it might go faster if we chop the projects (we need then ton of woods).

    Pyramids are better than ever (cause builders with 7 charges make sense to build project).
    Coliseum as usual and it’s still even better because it gives loyalty as well and might make flip out neighbors.
    Maybe colossus? easy trade route.
    Forbidden cities is a must have (but not on the road, so im not sure to build it ever) as joker doctrine are super strong
    Big ben is still relevant because there is a ton of things to buy now.

    This list is huge but its easier to build wonders with gouvernors.
    An army is good to have alliance come with wars.
     
  2. FireBender

    FireBender Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2018
    Messages:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks for the list! What's your take on the early game settler spam? Do you think that it's worth it to pump out a few settlers, and then go straight for the governor's plaza and the settler building for the bonus production & free builder, before making the rest of the settlers?

    Also, I haven't finished my r&f game yet, but what did you mean by this? Did they introduce some interaction between builders and space projects other than chopping?
     
  3. Japper007

    Japper007 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Messages:
    388
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I really want to try that Vertical Integration promotion on one of the governors (Magnus IIRC?), it brings back IZ stacking like before the patches! Top that off with Scotlands +5% production in happy cities and you can probably just build the projects without trees!
     
  4. Arent11

    Arent11 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2016
    Messages:
    709
    I think he means this:

    http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ6_riseandfall.html#districts

    Royal Society (Tier 3 Government Building)
    Base Cost: 580 Production; Maintenance: 3 Gold
    Requires: Government Plaza, Tier 2 Government Building. Can't share the same district with another Tier 3 Government Building.
    Builders gain the ability to use all of their charges to provide bonus Production to a District Project.
     
  5. Ziel

    Ziel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Yes he does !
     
  6. Athmos

    Athmos Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    236
    I'm wondering about this too, I think culture / Theatre square "rush" is still a good idea.
    In particular, I wonder how the availability of the Governor Plaza district interact with the district discount formula; does it count as an "unlocked district type" ?
     
  7. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    170
    Gender:
    Male
    Hi, thanks for making this thread...
    There's quite a few buffs and needs, so now the question is how to make it all balance.

    Since im not even close to a late game - my question would be: Have you tried the Royal Society? Does it work?
    How much production can a builder add? How many builders can you add per turn? Thoughts?

    There are so many unknowns that need to be explored.
    It seems a lot will depend on the specific game age progression: it seems that the world age is calculated differently now. I tried playing some opening games yesterday - running with campuses - and I was able to recruit 3 classical era great scientists on Immortal. Not sure this happened ever before, even on Prince.
    So my first thought (will follow up on this) would be that potentially we could now get all Classical to Renaissance era eurekas and preserve the lump-science GS to speed up later technologies (e.g. rocketry) - with a different progression thorough the tech tree. We will see.

    Second, unexplored issue with game age progression is : getting more details as to how long each game age lasts. I think this would be necessary to include into planning. @Lily_Lancer has advocated going deliberately into a dark age to make use of the policies and then end up in a heroic age. This does seem like a potentially good idea - but the question is that of timing. It is my first impression that the game ages last way too long. So we need to see whether this may work and how.

    Thirdly, we need to see which policies / dedications in which ages are clearly superior than the others.
    For example, if you snatch the goddess of the harvest pantheon - which seems more and more doable now - what is the best classical era dedication ? With Magnus and 100% from chops + Ancestral hall (50% production to settlers) + 50% production on settlers card - you can almost faith buy a settler for every chopped settler. Not to mention that all these cities would get a free builder. This could significantly speed up settlement - making it viable to pump out 10 all in time to make a difference.
    While this is definitely the go to option for a peaceful game - does it still hold true for warmonger games?

    Culture. Ah culture seems very problematic.
    The change to monuments is rather big - now its 2 culture only when you have full loyalty. This could potentially make the dark ages very damaging.
    So one question could be - is going for the globalisation a preferred way to deal with science nerfs? If so - how?
    In the pre-patch vanilla, except for a few special civs - globalisation would rather be either unreachable or just slowing your overall victory.
    The second issue is that going for the theatres early - based on my testing (and I think @Victoria has done some as well) seems to clash with the warmongering style.
    The third one is - seeing whether it is viable to go the Drama and Poetry before Political philosophy route and still end up in a classical golden age (assuming that one is preferred), etc.

    These are just a few things from the top of my head.
    What I will do - in the next days is experiment with the opening moves and try to rank different opening strategies. I'll post whatever findings I've got.
    Please do share your experiences.
    Cheers,
     
    i_imperator likes this.
  8. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,021
    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    It is hard-coded that an era lasts at least 40 turns.

    So Medival era dark age is T80~120, great for research. At T120 you probably finished your game, at least most of your research. In fact maybe a little later. In fact I think the best time for +100% Science bonus for fast victory is T90~130( which offers you more chance to complete some 50% eurekas and Holy Sites before T90), so a little later is in fact better.

    I think we shall ignore culture progress due to being given 25% penalty, which means we will not use Royal Society, just chop with Magnus. (Or Maybe Royal Society is still achievable with 10-turn science to culture from moon landing)

    Maybe we need 2~3 spaceports. (5 spaceports are too long time for Reyna and Magnus to travel).

    Also, Great Scientist and Great Engineers definitely cost too much since you can no longer jump some of them, and also there's no -50% Gold patron anymore. So I think they're to be ignored.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,623
    The eureka drop is a noticeable difference when combined.
    Coiliseum is pretty good with the +2 loyalty and the amenities mean more with happiness
    Culture Pantheons become stronger possibilities
    Most of your stable cities will be
    SV makes you jump your governors all the time.
    Going 3 early theaters may seem like a good idea but it does slow you as well, I guess getting the balance right is important.

    After war cities do stabilize fast, they very quickly support each other to get fully loyal, seems fine as long as you decimate a full civ. Pop is king and even a 5 pop enemy can cause -20 quite a way out.

    Sadly the simple way is becoming the 5 ports approach. With Magnus you need only a few trees in each spaceport anyway.
    You just need the money to buy the spaceports... or chop some which is quite possible.
    This approach does not need scientists at all really and the more you can chop spaceports the less you need. A main limit I guess is moving Magnus... 30% pingala is no competition.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  10. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,021
    Location:
    Berkeley,CA

    Given that capture a capital gives 4 points and eliminate a Civ gives 5 points it shall be very easy to maintain golden age all game long.
    On the contrary, may it be very difficult to get to Medival Dark Age? Suppose you have 7 cities to enter classical, then you need to make <24 golden age points in classical.
     
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,623
    There is the problem of leading science as well... first to discover etc.
    I can see lots of normal and golden, little chance of darks.
     
    Arent11 likes this.
  12. Ziel

    Ziel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    That's the point to conclude with, yes.

    Yes I did use it, now the point is to know if it works or not in time. Royal society allows to use a full charge builder per turn and per project (not sure on this one, I didn't have two project in same times due to science inflow issue).

    Royal society consumes all the charge of a builder in once. If your builders are 5 charges, you need 5 of them to complete a project. It means than a builder is 20% prod of a project.
    So one charge is 4%.
    You can reduce with pyramids + dedicate governor, then you'll have a 7 charge builder, so project can be achevied in 4 turns.

    A decent strat with royal society should be:
    Have 4 governors needed to the strat:
    - Magnus, at least level 2 to chop what you need to chop during the game, and to do not consume pop with settlers
    - Reyna, level 4, she is needed to buy some space port (she can buy the 3, since you're need to prepare the two science project first, there is 8 to 10 hidden turns)
    - Pingala, level 3, he is helping with building scientific districts (Magnus can't be everywhere), he brings help to recruit GS.
    - Amani level 1, she helps a lot with CS, we less envoy as before.

    Regarding wonders, we need pyramids of course.

    A cultural alliance to help cultural inflow (level 2 brings more GP points).

    Renaissance ERA allows to recruit builders with faith and give 2 more movement points to them.

    God of the harvest is better than before in these conditions.

    Yes, it looks like that we have more GP points per turn than before (with 12 science cities in my last game with rome I had 60 GS point per turn).

    The main problem with warmongering is you lost a lot of new perks with this way. No alliances and realy less emergency situation which brings a lot of money.

    The main problem I have with dark age is flipping cities, there is a lot of risk to go to a dark age. What do you suggest with dark age in medieval ?
     
    i_imperator likes this.
  13. whacker

    whacker Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    144
    Gender:
    Male
    Are these 4% multiplied by buffs like Hongkong or Pinalas last perk? Do chops add up to those builders? Can you swap projects within one turn to use more than a single builder? I have not played to the late game and can`t do those tests by myself. :D

    Thanks for sharing your impressions, i played 2 games to t100 to get a grasp on the game, so far i have quite similar views on most of the mechanics you descibed.
     
  14. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,021
    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    I guess if you're asking such question you're not DoW well enough. If you take cities fast enough dark age will not be a problem.

    Notice that to make good use of this +100% is highly situational, requires you to tech really fast since it only works for T90~130 so you'd better finish the tech tree around T130 to make good use of it.
     
  15. Ziel

    Ziel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Hi Lily,

    I've got it, i had face many problems in my First game with early warmongering. Craftmanship comes later and delay your first army.

    Also as you have less science and less culture per citizen, only 2 cities are not enough to be in time.

    Meanwhile gov plaza put trouble with district discount.

    In overall there is already many thing to work out in early game.

    Ps: I tried To build project with 7 charges builders and 5 builders were still needed, first impression was wrong
     
  16. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    206
    Gender:
    Male
    The actual data is 3% per charge, in Expansion1_Buildings.xml.

    It can multiplied by all specific accelerating scalars (HongKong, Pinala); chops add up; swapping projects cannot use more in one turn; It cannot overflow like GPs, chops can. This can be easily tested by an information era starting, and we have tested them on the day R&F was released.

    It's a little hard to control. To go into the Medieval dark age, you need to have a very large number of cities in the ancient era (and you have better to enter Golden age in classical era, that is easy). Maybe only for some strongest early conquest civilizations? Anyway, It's worth a try.

    The moon landing, 10 times of science per turn. In the turn it finishes you can crazy chop to accelerate the campus projects, it will all add to the SPT, so 1 production = 1.5 (0.15 * 10) culture! With Magnus you will get 525 culture from each 350 chop. This has been proven, I just know in this way @Rogue-star have already won a less 180T peaceful SV. Big Ben is still useful, you can use the money to buy labs and spaceports.
     
    Victoria likes this.
  17. Erneiz Hyde

    Erneiz Hyde Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    280
    Hi! I frequented this forum back when Civ5 was still strong. I used to finish emperor games in 350+ turns, but after I got involved in this forum I was able to more consistently achieve turn 250 Deity SV, which was the bread and butter finish time back then. Now I came back and found that turn 200 victory in Civ 6 is super late? Winning SV before turn 150 is normal? I just finished settling cities on turn 100!
    *insert Dr.Strange "teach me" cut scene here*

    So, like before, I currently usually finish around turn 300, sometimes later sometimes earlier. Can you guys please teach me how to improve? From the very basics please, step by step guide, like I'm a 10 years old or something. I want to know build order, beelines, benchmarks, efficiencies, all those stuff. Preferably, point me to threads that condensed these info in a concise manner (several players, like Acken, started threads like these back in Civ5 era). Video let's plays are also good, I learned to like youtube let's play videos recently (also watched a little too much youtube perhaps), but I'm mainly looking for a written guide.
    *insert "how can I get from here to there?" cut scene here*
     
  18. Ziel

    Ziel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Hello,

    There is no tutorial or such on R&F for the moment, the expansion is release for less than one week. But for vanilla civ6, just take a look on Civtrader6 trades in this section, he has very good YouTube records.

    You can also read all detail trades from Lili and victoria.
     
  19. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,021
    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    In vanilla there's not much map and Civ which can ensure you a T130 victory, also. So the Medival Dark Age thing I guess is a way to shoot records with perfect Civs like Aztec or Sumeria, or do on lower difficulties where medival ends later.

    But a rapid growth is always ensured. Wiping out 2 or 3 Civs in the first 100 turns( and having>100 Science/Culture per turn with Industrial tech/civic at T100) can always be done. Although Victor adds some toughness to capture enemy capital, the 1-iron chariot-knight method really helps on contrary.
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,623
    So, the question is how many spaceports?
    It looks like Magnus needs 5 chops each so I guess it depends on how many trees you can get.
    Then because it’s going to take 4 turns per project feeding workers into a grinder you maybe want more than one spaceport for that but 3 could be expensive for Reyna
    I guess it all comes down to how much gold and trees you have at the end.

    My how the SV has changed dramatically.
     

Share This Page

Ebates: Get Paid to Shop