And it also generates more income too.
Since there is less corruption with Democracy, it means less waste; therefore it yields more income on shields, golds, and science.
How to wage an effective war with a democratic government:
- Thread starter Moonsinger
- Start date
And it also generates more income too.
Since there is less corruption with Democracy, it means less waste; therefore it yields more income on shields, golds, and science.
That's what I thought.
One sung goddess who leads her civilization to flourish,
Like the new dawns which enlighten the darkness;
Like an endless source of wrought and daedal golds,
Which bring happiness to her civilization forever after.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
Switching to democracy depends on how long you think you will be in Democracy. I've had several games where when I switched from Republic to Democracy I actually lost income! This was because of the mass starvation during anarchy. It sometimes takes several turns after the revolution is over before your population builds back up and you start seeing more money. In my last couple of tournament games, by the time I got democracy I only had probably about 20 or so turns left before winning so changing governments would have really slowed me down.
Democracy has slightly lower corruption. The faster workers you will also get when you get replaceable parts. With a dense build, I doubt democracy really has any benefits compared to Republic. When you are well over the optimal # of cities, your far cities will be at 95% corrupt regardless of which government you are in.
I've loaded up my last two tournament games and tested to see what would have happened if I switched to Democracy. In the first one playing as Egypt (religious, so 1 turn anarchy), I did an extremely dense build (one city for every 4 tiles). I lost alot more gold going to democracy because of the starvation during that 1 turn anarchy! Last game playing as the French. Only had about 10 cities or so on a tiny map, with just a little bit of overlapping of cities. In republic I had 42 gold lost to corruption. In democracy this dropped to 34, but my net income dropped from the starvation in anarchy.
So IMHO only go to democracy if you will be staying there for a long time. If you change more than once, or start suffering massive war weariness, you've just negated any benefits of democracy.
Democracy has slightly lower corruption. The faster workers you will also get when you get replaceable parts. With a dense build, I doubt democracy really has any benefits compared to Republic. When you are well over the optimal # of cities, your far cities will be at 95% corrupt regardless of which government you are in.
I've loaded up my last two tournament games and tested to see what would have happened if I switched to Democracy. In the first one playing as Egypt (religious, so 1 turn anarchy), I did an extremely dense build (one city for every 4 tiles). I lost alot more gold going to democracy because of the starvation during that 1 turn anarchy! Last game playing as the French. Only had about 10 cities or so on a tiny map, with just a little bit of overlapping of cities. In republic I had 42 gold lost to corruption. In democracy this dropped to 34, but my net income dropped from the starvation in anarchy.
So IMHO only go to democracy if you will be staying there for a long time. If you change more than once, or start suffering massive war weariness, you've just negated any benefits of democracy.
Yup, I would never change to anything else once I switch to democracy. For richer or poorer, I'm going to stay with my democratic civ to the end of game.
If I'm religious I usually switch to Monarchy during war.Originally posted by Moonsinger
Yup, I would never change to anything else once I switch to democracy. For richer or poorer, I'm going to stay with my democratic civ to the end of game.
Trinity
Brains, Beauty & st b*tch
My current civ (French) has had enough of 100 years of consecutive wars with one turn of peace in between. They are very war weary. It is kicking in after three years now. I'm in anarchy and switching to Republic or Communism until I rid the world of my enemies.
Trinity
Brains, Beauty & st b*tch
Update: I switched to Republic. Had higher corruption and even more war weariness. Oh well, going from 1930 back to 1904. This time the city where Hiawatha has 10 infantry parked, I'm not going to bother asking him to leave because he'll declare war. I know this. It's on a stupid rock out in the middle of the ocean (Falklands scenario). I'm just going to abandon the city. He can have the rock (I think it's about the size of Angel Island in SF Bay), is desert and a mountain, and has absolutely no resources.
Night Raider
Chieftain
Trinity, have you tried giving Hiawatha a ROP instead? If you give an ROP he will not declare war on you, the AI does not want to take the reputation hit.
After you have the ROP in place, assuming you have a common border with him, line your border with explorers, infantry, or workers, that will keep him out but let you go into his little home. Also, if he leaves the island after the ROP is in place, park a few infantry, or workers, on the small island taking up all the squares, the AI very rarely builds marines to take an island, to be honest I do not think I have ever seen it, it will land 6 to 8 Modern Armour to take a city of 1 or 2 with one defender; yet at the same time I have seen the AI through 2 Armour at a city of 20 + when I knew it had a good 30 or 40 Armour at its disposal, go figure.
After you have the ROP in place, assuming you have a common border with him, line your border with explorers, infantry, or workers, that will keep him out but let you go into his little home.
Also, if he leaves the island after the ROP is in place, park a few infantry, or workers, on the small island taking up all the squares, the AI very rarely builds marines to take an island, to be honest I do not think I have ever seen it, it will land 6 to 8 Modern Armour to take a city of 1 or 2 with one defender; yet at the same time I have seen the AI through 2 Armour at a city of 20 + when I knew it had a good 30 or 40 Armour at its disposal, go figure.Trinity
Brains, Beauty & st b*tch
My empire imploded at the 1930 point with 70% war weariness. According to history, it would have been ripe for Fascism or Communism. As I mentioned I went to a previous save. We are now in WW II in 1924.
This time Hiawatha allied with via MPP Hammurabi against Persia. I'm still fighting Persia. Germany formed and MPP with Hiawatha, and is fighting Persia. Rome attacked the Iroquois. So the stupid Germans are in a two front war, as is everyone else. Shaka formed an alliance or MPP with Hammurabi. Every one of these former arch enemies. So Hiawatha now offers World Map in exchange for World Map and Computers. As if. I give him my World Map as a "token of good will." Elizabeth is just sitting and watching everyone destroy each other. I think Elizabeth and I will be the only ones left.
My foreign advisor keeps reminding me that these nations betrayed my freinds, the Greeks even though I obliterated them 500 years ago. Or betrayed my friends, the Persians, with whom I'm at war.
The AI needs Haloperadol or Thorozine. It is crazy. I've determined that its behavior is according to the DSM IV -- Paranoid Schizophrenia. I'm scared to death. Everything is so hair trigger. So I researched rocketry, and am doing fission now. Then Manhattan Project/UN. Then Space Exploration/Apollo. Then ICBMs (for defense - MAD).
I had 8 opponents in the game. Of course only 7 show on the Foreign Advisor screen. The 8th never appears so you don't know with whom they are allied, even though I eliminated the Greeks. That 8th is my neighbor Shaka.
So Hammurabi is trotting into my newly conquored territory with Hiawatha after the Persians. I give them both RoPs. I'm just about done with my business with Persia, and will make peace with them in two turns. I just upgraded all infantry to Mech Infantry.
I made a double tile depth row of fortresses at the choke points and put Mech Infantry and artillery in them. BTW those are mountain tiles. And stuck my outdated swordsmen in the tiles in front of them. Defense in depth. I dropped three Mech Infantry, a couple tanks, and a worker on the island, on which I discovered another source of oil. So I'm rushing a Harbor on it and building fortifications on all unoccupied tiles.
I can afford some 50 more military units (I have over 310 now, 19 are workers). 84 cities. Corruption may cause me to abandon some of them. How many of those 50 will be ICBMs, I don't know.
Underground testing will begin in 8 turns. I think it's time to watch Dr. Strangelove. :rocket2:
Paranoid? You're only paranoid if they're not really after you.
This time Hiawatha allied with via MPP Hammurabi against Persia. I'm still fighting Persia. Germany formed and MPP with Hiawatha, and is fighting Persia. Rome attacked the Iroquois. So the stupid Germans are in a two front war, as is everyone else. Shaka formed an alliance or MPP with Hammurabi. Every one of these former arch enemies. So Hiawatha now offers World Map in exchange for World Map and Computers. As if. I give him my World Map as a "token of good will." Elizabeth is just sitting and watching everyone destroy each other. I think Elizabeth and I will be the only ones left.
My foreign advisor keeps reminding me that these nations betrayed my freinds, the Greeks even though I obliterated them 500 years ago. Or betrayed my friends, the Persians, with whom I'm at war.
The AI needs Haloperadol or Thorozine. It is crazy. I've determined that its behavior is according to the DSM IV -- Paranoid Schizophrenia. I'm scared to death. Everything is so hair trigger. So I researched rocketry, and am doing fission now. Then Manhattan Project/UN. Then Space Exploration/Apollo. Then ICBMs (for defense - MAD).
I had 8 opponents in the game. Of course only 7 show on the Foreign Advisor screen. The 8th never appears so you don't know with whom they are allied, even though I eliminated the Greeks. That 8th is my neighbor Shaka.
So Hammurabi is trotting into my newly conquored territory with Hiawatha after the Persians. I give them both RoPs. I'm just about done with my business with Persia, and will make peace with them in two turns. I just upgraded all infantry to Mech Infantry.
I made a double tile depth row of fortresses at the choke points and put Mech Infantry and artillery in them. BTW those are mountain tiles. And stuck my outdated swordsmen in the tiles in front of them. Defense in depth. I dropped three Mech Infantry, a couple tanks, and a worker on the island, on which I discovered another source of oil. So I'm rushing a Harbor on it and building fortifications on all unoccupied tiles.
I can afford some 50 more military units (I have over 310 now, 19 are workers). 84 cities. Corruption may cause me to abandon some of them. How many of those 50 will be ICBMs, I don't know.
Underground testing will begin in 8 turns. I think it's time to watch Dr. Strangelove. :rocket2:
Paranoid? You're only paranoid if they're not really after you.
Trinity
Brains, Beauty & st b*tch
That's what I was talking about. You can't wage war, defensive or otherwise, with a democracy.
Sign a peace treaty. Give 'em an RoP. Don't make any alliances, MPP or otherwise. The only one to make is a trade embargo on the one civ everyone is after. If you're approached for an alliance or MPP, don't give it. Make a counter-offer of a gift of your world map.
Know your enemies, but trade with them often.
Build about 50 ICBMs. You should be safe then. Use them if attacked to nuke them back to the stone age. Any war will be very short.
Sign a peace treaty. Give 'em an RoP. Don't make any alliances, MPP or otherwise. The only one to make is a trade embargo on the one civ everyone is after. If you're approached for an alliance or MPP, don't give it. Make a counter-offer of a gift of your world map.
Know your enemies, but trade with them often.
Build about 50 ICBMs. You should be safe then. Use them if attacked to nuke them back to the stone age. Any war will be very short.
That has never happened to me. You should be able to last at least 40 turns of war in Democracy without much of a problem. If I have to stay at war longer than that, I just allocate all of my income to keep them happy. Of course, if that still doesn't work, let them starve to dead.Originally posted by Grey Fox
My Democracy just collapsed into anarchy, and I kept every citixen happy with Entertainers
I think the trick is to go to war with multiple civs. Every now and then, I sign the peace treaty with one civ to boot up the citizen happiness. Unless I decide to wipe out an entire civ, I try not taking too many cities away from it. I have noticed that AI doesn't want to surrender if it knows that I'm trying to wipe it out. This seems to be true only when I'm the one who declares war then takes many of its cities. On the other hand, if it is the one who declares war, it's ok for me to take as many cities as posible and still be able to ask for peace after 20 turns or so.
Oh, I forgot to mention. It seems to me that religious or military civs like to stay at war longer than commence or scientific civs. Therefore, we better watch out for those guys; they like to prolong the war forever.
It's in the GOTM only me and China left. I was only in the war for like 5 turns and then it happened... I had every citizen as either a specialist or happy, except in a few cities... must be because I have been warring pretty much in Democracy before or something. (With Peace inbetween).
Trinity
Brains, Beauty & st b*tch
Originally posted by Moonsinger
Oh, I forgot to mention. It seems to me that religious or military civs like to stay at war longer than commence or scientific civs. Therefore, we better watch out for those guys; they like to prolong the war forever.
I'm not so sure I completely agree. Xerses is a major pain. It seems he's always at war. What's up with that?
The best behaved civ I've run into is the English. They always seem to quietly build up.
I also like the Bola on Caesar -- nice Mussolini touch, Firaxis. I hate being his neighbor.
It does seem like the Babylonians, Iroquois, Zulus, and the Germans have finally decided that the Judean Peoples Front is not the real enemy -- It's the Romans. Maybe that will take the heat off for a bit. I don't worry about a Roman Spearman and Centurion running around my territory. They're all that's left of Rome on the northern continent. The northwestern continent is Rome's strong point.
Zeromus
Chieftain
This reminds me about a problem I've always had until recently. On my emperor game, I was doing really good peacefully. I had managed to secure plenty of tradeable resources and a sizeable empire without going to war. This let me catch up in technology by trading my resources for them and also getting those lovely per-turn deals for my spices, silks, etc. I got a RoP with everyone to keep relations good. Everyone was polite towards me. I was looking at a good chance of winning a diplomatic victory...
then the impossible happened.
Rome, my neighbor, declared war on me for no reason and took three of my border cities that same turn. I froze in disbelief. Not only because this would be my first victory on emperor, giving me the "right" to play on deity, but they BROKE A ROP! For no reason!
It gets worse too. I reloaded, not wanting to start over after having played good up until then and signed a MPP with Rome and several other guys. Next turn, they STILL attacked me!!
But anyway, getting to the point, I couldn't trade resources anymore after that for techs (or anything for that matter).Why? I was trading stuff to Rome when they attacked. So even though they attacked me under a RoP and even a MPP, it still looked like I traded resources to them for cash and techs only to stop giving them the resources after I had gotten what I wanted.
Bottom line, just try to look out for those 20 turn deals. If you are giving resources or per-turn gold and the deal is broken, the other civs won't trust you anymore. If, say, you are supplying iron to the Iroquois for something and they are fighting, say, the Russians and Germans and they cut the Iroquois road and harbors off completely, YOU are looked at as the thief even though the Iroquois are the ones who lost their trade route to you.
I eventually did get a U.N. victory btw. Rome was a very lonely nation during that war.
He is a militaristic civ! That's why he like to be at war. Just like I previously mentioned, religious or militaristic civ seem to prolong war.
Well, the English is a comercial and expansionist civ; therefore, war is not good for business.
America and France are also well behave. Watch out for the India, Egypt, Babylon, Japan, Aztecs, and Iroquois; those religious guys love to stay at war. I guess they learn that by studying those religious fanatics in the real world. Holy war this and holy war that and war will last forever.If you didn't know it, I'll tell you know. Every Civilization has an aggression level, and it can be found in the editor.
There are 5 levels of aggression, and here is how they are spread:
Agression Level 1
- France
- India
Agression Level 2
- China
- Iroquois
Agression Level 3
- Egypt
- Greece
- America
- England
Agression Level 4
- Rome
- Babylon
- Japan
- Russia
- Persia
- Aztecs
Agression Level 5
- Germany
- Zulu
There are 5 levels of aggression, and here is how they are spread:
Agression Level 1
- France
- India
Agression Level 2
- China
- Iroquois
Agression Level 3
- Egypt
- Greece
- America
- England
Agression Level 4
- Rome
- Babylon
- Japan
- Russia
- Persia
- Aztecs
Agression Level 5
- Germany
- Zulu
Since Rome is a militaristic civ, it supposes to attack and conquer the weaker civ. Germany and Japan would also like to do the same thing. Btw, I would have done the same thing too.
I guess France, America, Britain, Russia, China, and Greece are the few that don't like to break treaty for no reason. In the real world, Russia and China seem scary, but they have never really broken any treaty for no reason.
