How would you improve Civ 4?

[TheMeInTeam]

5&6 sound like excellent ideas, and might reduce human frustration with governors and workers as well.


Perhaps you could clarify 1 & 2 . I'm not disagreeing, but I'm not certain what you're talking about.

DanF5771 can actually describe the "self-close" bug better than me. Nobody really notices it since it's been around a long time. Basically there's some modifier related to early wars, that's supposed to check the range between capitols, but instead checks the range between cities of the same civ. So, they're always "too close" since the cities are in fact settled near each other, not surprisingly .

The worst enemy map hack is the ability for the AI, and only the AI, to detect trades between a civilization they know and a civilization they do not know. This puts isolated civs at a substantial disadvantage past what they already are, since they are limited in trades until they meet everyone to evaluate consequences. Techs may be researched or demanded by then...but this is a much greater problem for the AI! An isolated AI is scr00d. It probably WILL trade, and make worst enemies, closing further trades and staying backwards until the human comes and takes its land.

Now, the governor issue is interesting. RIGHT NOW, as part of civ, the governor IS capable of decently efficient whipping cycles (!), and workers make improvements based on governor emphasis buttons (!). Considering how the AI workers make tile improvements, it's pretty obvious that they're either 1) using an entirely different algorithm than our governor or 2) they're not sticking with a specialization, resulting in improvement swaps on the same tile and poor specialization overall.

To see a demonstration of what I mean, drop down a difficulty or go into WB and give yourself a big island and a bunch of cities/workers, and all the techs. Then put both citizen and production governors on. Try out the different emphasize buttons and COMBINATIONS of emphasize buttons. Not only can you change what improvements the workers create, you can affect the building choices made by the governor (though I suggest overriding them)! The production guy is important, because he's the one that does the whipping/rush buy. It will adjust whips based on the emphasis too - tends to whip at every opportunity unless there's superior tiles, then it grows first THEN whips (or doesn't at all if it's less efficient). The other buttons will make the city want to grow onto the relevant tiles first.

Now, the above paragraph isn't suggestions, it's ALREADY IMPLEMENTED in the game! However, the AI does not seem to use it to its potential, and I think it would be a LOT stronger if it simply were given an algorithm for city specialization and tended to keep specialized cities that way once they were (with possible exception checks).

One thing about that feature. If you use it, make sure you unselect the main group first. It's a little bit temperamental and sometimes I find after trying to select a few individual units the whole group will go wandering off. You need to cancel all groupings first to be absolutely sure nothing screws up. I love the grouping functions in this game but they don't always work right.

Since I play so quickly, you better believe that the selection issues haunt me. It's one of my greatest frustrations, actually...! I'm holding shift and clicking on the unit! Unselect it you piece of garbage! Crap! I shift-clicked (once) on a unit and selected the WHOLE STACK...in multiplayer...mid-war...with a blazing timer...! (good thing it was just with 1 friend and it was the AI I was fighting?). I would LOVE that to be fixed.

 

[Rusty Edge]

So those worst enemy penalties really are out of control and I'm not as paranoid as I think?

Yeah, that needs fixin'. It's unfair. Being semi-isolated is handicap enough, be ye human or A.I.

 

[AncientPlayer]

Patrols with waypoints.
Map editor and creator, way to save a map and only a map for reuse in custom game.
Game editor so we didn't have to edit the XML directly.

 

[Cheomesh]

I would like to see resources become a bit more treasurable. This was brought up in this thread. Basically, a given resource, like iron, could only enable a certain number of reliant units to be built from it at a time. For example, I have one iron mine; subsequently I could only produce 2 or 3 swordsmen at a time. He also mentioned things like oil being able to support a maximum number of air or other oil dependent units, beyond how many you could produce at a time.

I thought this was a rather nifty idea, perhaps an enableable setting for those who want to use it, so that those who don't still have their way of playing. It would certainly help cut down on dog piles, and make war more about resource control than anything else.

As to wonders, I would personally prefer it if you never actively built them. Instead, when you complete a given building, say a barracks, it would have a chance (based on how the local culture/national culture is skewed, like the GPs) to become something greater, either real or fictional. Maybe, if you triumph this unique wonder would then be recorded in a "Wonder Hall of Fame". Great Barracks of Babylon ftw.

M.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Improvements for Cities

• Cities should be able to build more then on thing at a time. Rome was not built in a day but it was not built one building at a time either. Same thing with its military. I would like to build at least one unit, one building and perhaps one wonder at the same time.

The fact is, with your idea bare, it would be efficient to build one building or unit at a time, because you could use one of the severals earlier. Just look at what happens in Multiplayer Team Games: all the players within a team must research the same tech at a time, because you can use them earlier. If you build 1) thing, 2) thing, 3) thing in the same time, you will get them say in 18 turns each of them, but if you build first 1) thing, you will get it in 6 turns, 2) thing in 12 turns, and 3) thing in 18 turns. That's a lot more valuable to build them one after the other, not in the same time.

Improvements to the over all game

• A civilizations borders should not be decided by its culture. Culture should have a part in population, number of tourist that visit the civilization, the civs or cities happiness etc. Borders should be decided by who ever can work an area of land first or when a new city is founded or captured. When a city is captured so are all the tiles it is working.

I wholeheartedly agree with this one! Nothing to add.

As to your other ideas, I variably agree.

 

[sfnhltb]

1) Build multiple units/buildings in a turn if you have the production for it, meaning no cheesy gold overflow mechanics

2) AI improvements - especially on the areas that players are virtually following a formula, the AI should be able to do this

3) Interface improvements - make it easy to find information, and make the screens flow into each rather than a lot of them being modal. So when you are presented with a decision to raze a city, or an AI demands something from you, you can investigate before sending a reply. EU3 and all the similar games are great here - you can even leave diplomatic requests and the like hanging around for a number of days before autoreplying something non-commital, although it could just not let you finish your turn until you had answered them all.

4) Better tutorials/manual

5) Better continuity between each generation of Civ games - instead of Civ4 starting with a base (18?) leaders and then expanding, it could have imported all the leaders in Civ3 and expanded on them - personally I didn't even look at buying Civ4 until after Warlords as it cuts down the options so much compared to the final Civ3 with the expansions. (Yeah, I know updating all the civ specific graphics and other resources takes time, but as is currently done each version seems to end up retreading the same ground so much)

6) Allow the BFC to continue to expand with your cultural boundaries, so the choices between closely packed smaller cities and widely spread larger cities can be taken further without leaving large chunks of unused land (maybe making it so only the nearest city can work a tile, with only equidistant tiles being able to be flipped forward/backward

7) Axemen as the early dominant military unit. I mean I am not expecting complete historical accuracy in Civ, but at least the basic units should have had some impact on history

8) Change the upgrade penalty on XP to be more context sensitive - having a big penalty for Cavalry getting into attack helicopters makes sense. Curaissiers upgrading to having somewhat better guns as Cavalry and losing nearly all its accumulated XP seems unnecessarily unrealistic.

9) As well as city defenders, Archers (and other missile units) should be bombarding in the early game as well as catapults. I would even have them able to "bombard" defensively if they didn't attack/move on their last turn, although in that case it would be 1 set of of free strikes against an individual attacker to soften it up, even (or even especially) if the archer is not the target of the attack.

10) A set of military "civics", either as a 6th option on the normal civics board, or as a complete new set - you could for example have it so you have Melee/Infantry, Cavalry/Tanks/Gunships, Archery/Siege/Artillery, Naval, and late on Aircraft. These could then have things like choosing between having amphibious on all melee/infantry units, getting a production bonus to churn out more units, getting more xp when built, getting a pure combat bonus, etc. Clearly each military "civic" would be tied to various techs and your options increase as the game progresses (changing would probably not cause anarchy though, but would want some way of penalising frequent changes in the options- maybe have it so the old effect dissappears instantly, and the new bonus only comes in after some number of turns)

11) Some way of making SoD less prominent, while not messing up the counterunit stuff. I can't think of anything that doesn't really change the combat system though.

 

[Tesla1886]

I would like to see resources become a bit more treasurable. This was brought up in this thread. Basically, a given resource, like iron, could only enable a certain number of reliant units to be built from it at a time. For example, I have one iron mine; subsequently I could only produce 2 or 3 swordsmen at a time. He also mentioned things like oil being able to support a maximum number of air or other oil dependent units, beyond how many you could produce at a time.

I thought this was a rather nifty idea, perhaps an enableable setting for those who want to use it, so that those who don't still have their way of playing. It would certainly help cut down on dog piles, and make war more about resource control than anything else.

I would be fine with this if they would make it so that a unit could actually get stronger with the more battles it wins. I would not want to be limited to 10 tanks and continuously loose them after 4 or 5 battles

 

[Tesla1886]

The fact is, with your idea bare, it would be efficient to build one building or unit at a time, because you could use one of the severals earlier. Just look at what happens in Multiplayer Team Games: all the players within a team must research the same tech at a time, because you can use them earlier. If you build 1) thing, 2) thing, 3) thing in the same time, you will get them say in 18 turns each of them, but if you build first 1) thing, you will get it in 6 turns, 2) thing in 12 turns, and 3) thing in 18 turns. That's a lot more valuable to build them one after the other, not in the same time.

Not sure I completely follow your train of though but I get the main idea. I would even be ok with the population playing a factor into it. Maybe if the city has a population of 5 or 10 then it can produce more than one thing. Or If I just built a bank after 15 turns, while I am still in structure building "mode" I start building a Market that takes 10 turns then a factory that takes 5. After I build a factory I start working on a Fighter that will complete in 15 turns, then a mech infantry that will be completed in 10 so on and so on . . . . .

Maybe a combination of the two

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I was thinking today. (It's ok, it's ok, don't freak out. ) It would be nice to have a couple of more resource types. Some of the mods have things like bees and cotton, giving some health and commerce, etc. I'm not saying that every resource should be in every game, but a larger resource pool from which the map generator chooses randomly might be interesting, and lead to a little more strategy. (Of course, iron and copper, etc. would not be able to be random choices unless there was a replacement with similar benefits.)

"Darn, I have no bees this game! Oh, but wait! Lizzie has sulfur..."

You get the idea.

 

[Terrance888]

Every XP gives +1% combat advantage: Your 100 XP monster would have +100% v.S. everything! This is like a passive promotion.

Spearmen was the IRL dominant unit: Axes are just what Swordsmen are now: City Attacks because Axes are better for the close combat!

Have: Heavy Spearmen (5 Str, Mounted Bonus, + 50% V.S. Spearmen), Light Spearmen (6 Str, 25% V.S. Chariots) Axemen (5 str, + 50% v.s spearmen when attacking)

As the main Ancient Era units, and Archers are an early Bombard/Collateral Unit. (10% max collat damage and 50% chance of doing it against a unit? )

 

[Willem]

I was thinking today. (It's ok, it's ok, don't freak out. ) It would be nice to have a couple of more resource types. Some of the mods have things like bees and cotton, giving some health and commerce, etc.

If you have Warlords, it's pretty easy to add Olives, Cotton and Tea. These are all included in some of the scenarios that come with the game. Olives in Peloponessian Wars, Cotton and Tea in Chinese Unification.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

If you have Warlords, it's pretty easy to add Olives, Cotton and Tea. These are all included in some of the scenarios that come with the game. Olives in Peloponessian Wars, Cotton and Tea in Chinese Unification.

I don't have Warlords - never bothered. Is there any way to put them in BTS? Somebody made a resource mod a while ago, but I can't seem to find it. IIRC, though, there were some other changes to the Civic system in it as well, and it wasn't appealing to me at the time. Sadly, my memory fails me now.

 

[Willem]

Is there any way to put them in BTS?

Well that's what I meant. But I'm pretty sure you need Warlords in order to access those bonuses as they've been used in the scenarios. You could try following this path: Civilization 4\Warlords\Assets\Art\Terrain\Resources\ to see if the artwork is there. You still should have a Warlords folder since BtS contains everything from that XP. If it is, then it's just a matter of creating your own XML entries.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

If it is, then it's just a matter of creating your own XML entries.

Um... Lemon + XML editing equals:

Spoiler :

"Windows has detected that your motherboard has ignited, and must shut down. Don't bother saving open files..."

 

[mechaerik]

MasterLexx's GreenMod, but it's for Vanilla only. It allowed you to plant forests.


Do you really have no XML editing skills?

 

[King Flevance]

They don't have tea but Olives, Cotton, and Tobacco are all in that directory Willem mentioned. (I only have Civ4+BTS installed) Although it wouldn't be hard to make Tobacco be either Tea or Tobacco. The leaves probably look like an either/or situation.

 

[Stoney the I]

Personally i'd like the game to make me immortal and place me back 6000 years so i can have an actual go at it. Saving and reloading will be much appreciated.

On a more serious note:
- I liked the Palace building from civ 1, (even more so then the throne room from civ 2)
- I agree with civ 2 counsil, those were fun. specially the science advisor when way behind ("in truth sire.... WE SUCK!")
- I would like the ability to plant forests, that give hammers for chop, only after being there for like 500 years. machinery would be a good tech for planting forests.
- I liked the engineers in civ 2, that could alter terrain and make the planet into a paradise. In civ 4, desert annoys the crap out of me.
- I would like the option to block AI from contacting me. "ignore mode" so to speak.
- I would like it if 3 barbarian cities spawn close to eachother and survive a while, it becomes a new civ.
- On that note, remove barb galleys and insert more pirates during later ages.
- remove "poison water supply". when has that actually happened in history? and its annoying as hell. (I did it in xml myself)

i can think of more, but i have to go.
probably will be continued

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Do you really have no XML editing skills?

It isn't that I couldn't do it, it's just that I don't have the inclination to sit down and figure it out. I'd much rather be playing.

But while I'm thinking about it, it might be something I would like to do some day. There are a couple of tweaks that I would like to see in my own games. I studied C in college (19 years ago Shhhh! ), and I have looked at some XML and even some python. It doesn't look that hard. Even a nitwit like me should be able to figure it out.

 

[Willem]

They don't have tea but Olives, Cotton, and Tobacco are all in that directory Willem mentioned. (I only have Civ4+BTS installed) Although it wouldn't be hard to make Tobacco be either Tea or Tobacco. The leaves probably look like an either/or situation.

The files are called Tobacco but all the other stuff refers to it as Tea. I guess they got politically correct after making the artwork and changed it all. The Civilopedia writeup etc. though goes on about Tea.

 

[Willem]

I studied C in college (19 years ago Shhhh! ), and I have looked at some XML and even some python. It doesn't look that hard. Even a nitwit like me should be able to figure it out.

XML is very easy. If you have any sort of understanding of HTML then you'd have no problem with XML.