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Huge histographic: Are Mayas the best civ?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by ville-v, Apr 24, 2009.

  1. ville-v

    ville-v Chieftain

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    I was wondering, which tribe would be theoretically the best for obtaining #1 score in HoF. Actually, I was wondering if that would be Celts or Mayas.

    To get high score, you must keep citizen happy. You use luxury slider for this. On huge map you must have big cities.

    I have never played a histograph on a high level, but I assume keeping luxury slider high is not possible all the times, for example during war. And some cities are most likely corrupted as hell. That means there will be unhappy citizens. War may continue for a long time, for example 200 turns. Now, if you could switch to communism during war, you would get communal corruption, so every metropolis could be 100% happy with low luxury slider.

    Because Celts are religious, you would lose no citizen during the 1-turn anarchy (if you make sure food boxes are almost full when you revolt). That would mean you could afford revolting several times and you could switch governments long before achieving world domination. After domination, you could switch to democracy, rush everything you need in the cities and switch back. That would result much higher per-turn score.

    Mayans are industrous and Iroquous are commercial, but neither of those attributes does increase per-turn score, so you can manage without them. The only thing I can think of is that Mayans could maybe get faster domination because of faster workers, which result to more production. Does anybody ever use their UUs to fight? In such of a case, Celts would be even better, since their UU is faster and has higher attack.

    I see there are no Celts in HoF histographs, so am I 100% wrong with my plan? Has anybody ever tried Celts for HoF histographic victory?
     
  2. vmxa

    vmxa Chieftain

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    Probably should ask this in the HoF discussion thread.
     
  3. thetrooper

    thetrooper Schweinhund

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    I'm not the one to ask about HOF or histographic victories, so I'll agree with vmxa.

    But I can answer this:

    I always keep some vet/elite Javelin Throwers (and JT armies) until the end for finishing redlined enemy units and barbs in general. They have the possibility to enslave the enemy giving you a worker. (More) workers are always good. Especially for histographic wins, I presume.
     
  4. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    I expect the moderators will move this to the HoF discussion thread location soon enough. The Celts did get used for a standard Deity histographic game here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3197837#post3197837 I almost matched its score actually with the Maya on a *pangea* (much lower domination limit, no doubt) map on *demi-god*. Maybe that means nothing with respect to your question though.

    For a high scoring histographic game you want to quickly get very, very near the domination limit and have large cities with happy citizens quickly. The faster workers means you can irrigate more quickly for faster growth to size 12 (more citizens), hook up luxuries sooner (happier citizens), mine/forest faster near/at size 12 (faster production), and plant and chop forests faster (faster production). It also means you can rail faster, which might help you very, very near to the domination limit faster, or it might mean you can grow your cities faster. Faster growth can also imply faster (city improvement) production once you have Replacable Parts, as you probably want either happy citizens or civil engineers at that point. Earlier on, faster growth might mean more science, as you probably wnat happy citiziens or scientists (except in your core if playing as a Repulbic or Monarchy). It also might mean you can produce hospitals, marketplaces, aqueducts faster... although perhaps Communism will work better overall.

    The Celts will have slower growth when putting up one's rail network. I believe that the benefits of Communism less than the benefits of an earlier rail network (IF very, very near the domination limit and the game is under control), so I think the nod goes to the Maya *in general*. But, this could differ with the level we're talking about. You'll also want to consider your own style of play and your strategies. The Celts might work out better than the Maya for many players, even if the Maya theoretically end up with the highest scoring games.
     
  5. ville-v

    ville-v Chieftain

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    I was thinking of sid level. I am not planning to actually play such a game, but I was wondering if there could be some approach yielding a bit higher scores anybody has achieved yet.

    Is it possible to reach the same speed by building more workers (instead of only using slaves to get more gpt) or some other way? Or what if you build native workers and then join slaves to the city so that you don't lose happy citizen score?

    What if you go democracy for faster workers when you want to build rail net? Haven't the top gamers in HoF stayed monarchy or republic for ever?
     
  6. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    I'll say no, or at least nothing substantial in such a case. Gallics may prove useful on a non-Huge map ala Moonsinger's standard domination games, but on a huge map you probably need faster units. Her Huge conquest game, for example, with China used riders and cavalry and cavalry armies. Her 88k game did NOT get started with warring until about 70 AD when she already had knights and at least had Gundpowder, if not Chemistry also, and probably got to Military Tradition not too much time after that. She reached 65% of the territory first in 810 AD and then spent a while refounding cities and such with over 4500 tiles. The tile count varied a little for a while, but she eventually stabalized at 4561 tiles, just under the domination limit. And I believe she used the luxury slide substantially during her wars, so she had happy citizens throughout. And she captured the Pyramids on her home continent, which probably meant faster growth for the cities that first built hospitals. An ultra-early SGL for the Pyramids I suspect wouldn't help much if any, because of the needed military production from a well-timed GA.
     
  7. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    You lose population everytime you train a worker, so you won't have the same sort of score. You can only really add slaves in after you've killed the AI in question, lest a city flip.

    Pretty sure you'll still have wars going on when you're building the rail net. So, you'd have to maintain a democracy to do the quick revolt with the Celts. You'd also have to get the tech. Pretty sure Moonsinger stayed a republic for ever in her 88k game, but she didn't in her 80k game. I think she became a Monarchy and later a Republic there.
     
  8. ville-v

    ville-v Chieftain

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    So basically all you need are fast start (with Mayas and pyramids) and quick conquest to get a high score, because everything else (like swapping governments) has minimal influence to score compared to them?
     
  9. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Add happy citizenry and I'd say I think so. Also, Republic has the advantage that you can cash-rush, which you can't do in Communism.
     

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