Huge map / 16 civ stategies

GreenLantern

From OA
Joined
Nov 19, 2001
Messages
51
Location
Silicon Valley
I'm fascinated by the game with a huge map fully loaded with 16 civs with large continents (not Pangea). I'm playing it at warlord level, hoping to win a few times before moving on. I did win once, and here is what I learned.

I don't think it is possible to play the old "despotic conquest" (or even ("monarchial conquest") strategy and win easily - which was pretty trivial in Civ 2.

I have won doing this:

1) Grow a half dozen cities quickly and find horses and/or iron.
2) Take over most of one neighboring large civ using swordsmen and/or horsemen.
3) Build the Great Library - to keep up.
4) Build the Great Lighthouse - to find other continents and the rest of the civs.
5) Get to Republic - then Democracy - as soon as possible.
6) Build the Forbidden Palace in a major city of the conquered civ. This is worth using a Great Leader for if the corruption on that side of the map is really bad. But if you can save the G.L for the U.N., that is better.
7) Establish contact with everyone - especially on other continents.
8) If you don't have it, get access, through conquest if necessary, to most land types so you will have strategic resources when the tech shows up (plains, desert, hills, mountains).
9) Focus on science, culture, and trading.
10) Make sure you get to gunpowder (saltpeter), replacable parts (rubber), steam (coal), and refining (oil) first.
11) Don't fight wars if you can avoid them. When you do, have allies and an overwhelming supply of forces at the critical point.
12) Avoid mutual protection pacts which might draw you into a war - unless you really want to attack that civ. Even then, avoid this since you can't negotiate peace separately without a big reputation hit.
13) When you fight, take out their capital and negotiate peace right away. If you still want a city of the other civ, get it through negotiation.
14) Whenever you take over a city, build something like a temple right away. Have cultural superiority so you can make people happy. Rebellion is a killer.
15) Be the first to fission so you can build the U.N. If you have a Great Leader, save it for this. If you can win the vote, do so. If not, go for the Space Ship (more dignified than winning by high score when time runs out).

I'd love to hear your strategies for a huge map / 16 civs game.
 
One thing about Huge world with 16 Civs is that you need to Upgrade :enlighten:.

I'm not talking up Swordmen :ninja: ---> Infantry :soldier:. I'm talking about upgrade Pentium III ---> Pentium IV, 256 SDRAM ---> 512 RDRAM!!!

ironfang

P.S: Maybe :santa: will be nice to you this year!
 
Originally posted by ironfang
One thing about Huge world with 16 Civs is that you need to Upgrade :enlighten:.

I'm not talking up Swordmen :ninja: ---> Infantry :soldier:. I'm talking about upgrade Pentium III ---> Pentium IV, 256 SDRAM ---> 512 RDRAM!!!

ironfang

P.S: Maybe :santa: will be nice to you this year!

Yeah. You should see my Pentium II on a huge map. Its a lot of fun until the ancient era ends.
 
You said it Ironfang. I'm on a PIII, 600mhz, 256ram and it's just brutal in between turns. Go take a shower, have lunch or something while you wait

:vomit:

e
 
Well, I'm playing on a 1.4 ghz Athlon with 640 mbps pc133 memory. The wait time between turns after 1500 A.D. is about 2 minutes - annoying, but not painful enough to stop playing. The speed with 640 meg is almost identical to when I had 128 meg (I upgraded, but it didn't help much).

So, I would like to know if anyone is doing better than a 2 minute wait on the huge map with 16 civs after 1500 A.D.?
 
Originally posted by GreenLantern
So, I would like to know if anyone is doing better than a 2 minute wait on the huge map with 16 civs after 1500 A.D.?

2 minutes is about what I have to wait (1.2 GHz Athlon) :( even though in about 100 years there will be only 14 civs left :)
 
is there a way to see all treaties and wars with all civs in the foreign advisor mode? All I see is the traditional 8 (I think) and the rest I have to contact thru the "d" button in the lower rt conrner of the screen, but that doesnt allow you to see if they have any MPPs with other civs...

Am I missing something?
:confused:
 
I was wondering the same thing. I found this in another thread:
How do I view the other 8 civs on the foreign advisor screen in a 16 player game?
. Shift-rightclick on a portait to change it to another civ. There still is a maximum of 8 portaits at any time.
 
There is infobox in down right corner. In right side there is some buttons. Press D and you can see all civs you have met. E is espionage, P is palace view and H what show the historical situation.

Minding your own business is the first step to long life. --- Proverb from street of N.Y.C
Like those odds! --- Homer Simpson
 
it's not really that a P4 is needed, wait times are about the same from a PIII 800 on. It's just that with a huge map AND 16 civs the number of units increases exponentially. Now as you have all seen the AI always moves all of it's units, kinda like patrolling it's borders. That's what's causing the huge slowdown
 
i dont have more than a 30 second wait, with 16 civs, late game. this is with a 1.4 athlon as well.
 
Huge and Large maps are just too much of a pain. Turns and the game itself just take way, way, way too long.

In all actuality the strategies are pretty much the same no matter how many opponents you have.

Kill closest opponents and get techs and gold for peace
Buy techs and sell to computer players for gold per turn
If you fall behind trade a few cities for gold and techs

If you do that you can win on any level with any type of victory you want. But is it worth the massive time investment to play a huge map game? After playing two I decided it wasn't.

Oh yeah, 16 opponents is easier than 8 opponents. If you can have peace with everybody you can enslave them terribly bad by selling techs and resources for gold per turn. The reason it is easier is that you get twice the amount of profit for the same amount of work. Once you started buying techs from the "research leader" and selling to the others no other civ will able to research fast enough to get an advance because they will all broke. Now get some allies and you to attack the research civ and you can switch into science mode and keep the enslavement going while the civ that had been doing all the research loses cities and starts conscription 8)

Eliezar
 
Originally posted by Eliezar
Huge and Large maps are just too much of a pain. Turns and the game itself just take way, way, way too long.

In all actuality the strategies are pretty much the same no matter how many opponents you have.

Eliezar

After quite a bit of time on the huge map, I am starting to wonder the same thing. However, due to corruption and only having two capitals, I don't seem to be able to "take over the world" on huge map, so I have to use other strategies. On medium sized maps, conquest victory seems more attainable. I also believe that the resource density in smaller maps is better and more playable. I've controlled a quarter of the land on huge map and had no coal - even though I had lots of likely squares for coal before I got the tech.

There is another difference, too. Distance. In smaller maps, it is a workable strategy to go after each capital city then negotiate peace. The distances involved in huge map seem to make this unworkable, IMHO.
 
Communism and despotism totally negate corruption by letting you build with population. My 1 shield cities can produce tanks in 6 turns which is faster than some of my noncorrupt cities.

Eliezar
 
Originally posted by Eliezar
Communism and despotism totally negate corruption by letting you build with population. My 1 shield cities can produce tanks in 6 turns which is faster than some of my noncorrupt cities.

Eliezar

I know it is possible to do this, but to me personally, it invalidates the game. I consider it exploiting a hole in the game mechanics, so I don't use it. Likewise I don't overmilk tech trades, etc. I'd like to see them eventually clean up these "holes" so that winning through exploits in game mechanics isn't everyone's overwhelming favorite way to go. Hopefully the patch will reduce corruption enough that people will go back to playing a more complex development game. Does anyone else avoid "tricks" which they know will work but just don't seem right?
 
I still use the tricks, but I use them in moderation.
I'll do the science broker bit for a few techs, but only for a few. I'll use the despot rush trick on a couple cities in the early game, but I've yet to exploit it via communism. If I did, it'd be strictly for remote cities and then used sparingly.
I agree that using game mechanics strictly does seem to ruin some of the ... imagination?

I'm currently winning on a 16 civ huge map game. Regent, with 60% archipelago (oddly, tihs tends to produce one super-continent and a few large island continents...).
I struggled early, but managed to pull ahead in the middle ages. Out of the first 8 wonders, I was lucky to get ONE. Since then, I've gotten most all of them.
With the patch change (can't build more than one Palace...) I probably wouldn't have gotten more than a couple of the middle age wonders.

Hey, Abe has no cities... why is he still in the game?

- Stravaig
 
Originally posted by stravaig
I'm currently winning on a 16 civ huge map game. Regent, with 60% archipelago (oddly, tihs tends to produce one super-continent and a few large island continents...).
- Stravaig

Wow, me too. Huge map, large land mass archipelago, one big continent, but with lots of choke points on land masses. It does look very different from using large land mass continents, where I always get 1-2 large continents. Due to the choke points, the game is very different. But I had missed the fact that the world isn't dominated by water pathways. Wonder if that is by design?
 
Well the Civ III team definitely does not think population rushing is an exploit because they designed it to be part of the game. There are negative consequences to it (city stays small, unhappiness builds) and their are benefits (forced labor, which was the backbone of many ancient civilizations).

An exploit appears to be the planting and removing forest repeatedly even though that happens all the time in the real world. Depending whether your civ is industrial or not you get either a shield per turn per worker or half a shield per turn per worker.

The purpose of civilization is to build the dominant civilization. You do this by getting the most out of every city you have, not by playing sim city and making every city the way you want. Why would you choose a broken government type, democracy, just because you like the idea of having it. You can research techs just as fast in communism and produce much more stuff. Its the developers job to make a government worth having. Maybe the reason there are no democracies, that I know of, in the world today is because democracy works no better in practice than it does in Civ III 8)

Eliezar
 
Originally posted by Eliezar
Well the Civ III team definitely does not think population rushing is an exploit because they designed it to be part of the game. There are negative consequences to it (city stays small, unhappiness builds) and their are benefits (forced labor, which was the backbone of many ancient civilizations).
...
The purpose of civilization is to build the dominant civilization. You do this by getting the most out of every city you have, not by playing sim city and making every city the way you want. Why would you choose a broken government type, democracy, just because you like the idea of having it. You can research techs just as fast in communism and produce much more stuff. Its the developers job to make a government worth having. Maybe the reason there are no democracies, that I know of, in the world today is because democracy works no better in practice than it does in Civ III 8)

Eliezar

OK, I can see it. Maybe I'll try a game that way and see if I can win by conquering on the huge map. So what is your government type progression? Despotism -> Monarchy -> Communism?
 
despotism to communism, the other governments just slow you down to much

I think I stated it above but all cities without corruption get fully built up improvements and all the cities that don't want to cooperative go into population military rushing. Once I get research lab tech I've been able to hit the 4 turns per tech, but how much research I actually do depends on the games.

Basically a decadent homeland revels in luxery while its conquered territory is forced into slave labor to support the motherland 8)

Eliezar
 
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