Humankind Game by Amplitude

[FinalDoomsday]

I interpreted the Roman bonus a little differently, I think it increases the number of armies that you could field before incurring the penalty associated with not having a "general", which would make the bonus still powerful but much more reasonable. Besides, I don't think we should take numbers too seriously at this point.

That makes more sense of course I'm not going label anything over powered it just stuck out to me as a very powerful bonus based off my limited knowledge of the game.

I really like how the culture bonuses look so far just having a single impactful trait that you carry for the rest of the game.

 

[Siptah]

I think Carthage’s -50% rush buy cost is potentially very strong as well.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I interpreted the Roman bonus a little differently, I think it increases the number of armies that you could field before incurring the penalty associated with not having a "general", which would make the bonus still powerful but much more reasonable. Besides, I don't think we should take numbers too seriously at this point.

But why not say +3 generals then?

 

[SupremacyKing2]

It was posted a few pages back, I think from the PartyElite first impressions video:

Ok. Here are my initial thoughts on all the civ unique bonuses in the screenshot. Obviously, the numbers could change between now and release.

Babylonians
Philosophers of the Wild: +2 science per extension on settlement

I think extension refers to when you expand your city's radius with a quarter. So this gives you a bit more science every time you make your city bigger. So going "tall" and making your cities really big and sprawling will give you a bunch of extra science.

Egyptians
Grand Planners: Modify artificial wonder production cost by -25%

This is a simple bonus that makes wonders cheaper to build. It should be noted that this does not mean you will built more wonders like it might imply in civ. You can't just spam more wonders. In Humankind, I believe "influence" determines when you get to select a wonder to build. So this bonus will only trigger from time to time, when you get to select a wonder to build. But this bonus will mean less time devoting your cities to wonder construction. This bonus might mean that you won't need to assign as many cities to wonder construction, allowing your other cities to continue to build other stuff while you finish a wonder. Definitely a nice bonus but obviously only works when you are building wonders.

Harappans
Fertile Inundations: +2 food and +2 industry on river

Not a huge bonus but if you build all your cities on rivers, your cities will get a nice little boost that will help when they are brand new.

Mycenaeans
Brutal Upbringing: +200% experience on unit

This feels like a monster bonus for military players. Get into a lot of fights and you will end up with some tough veteran units.

Mayans
Tireless Spirit: +3 industry on exploitation

Not sure what exploitation is but extra industry is good.

Persians
Cyrus' Shadow: +2 Administrator count

Basically, 2 more cities before you hit your cap. This bonus basically let's you expand more. I like it a lot. Considering how expansion works, I can see Persians really aggressively claiming regions as fast as possible and getting a wider empire faster.

Romans
Legion's Finest: +3 Army cap

Not sure if this means armies can have +3 units or you get +3 armies before hitting your generals cap. The former would mean stronger armies. The latter would mean more armies on the map. Of course, you still need to build the units to fill the armies and terrain may not guarantee a victory. But having bigger armies or more armies is certainly a great bonus that will make Rome the military power they should be. Either way, this sounds like a great bonus.

Mauryans
Guiding Light: +10 science per independent people under patronage, +10 faith per independent people under patronage on the capital's city center

Independent People are like City-States in civ. So this is the equivalent of +10 science and faith per City-States that you are the Suzerain of. Depending on how many Independent Peoples there are, this could be a nice bonus or not. The extra science is nice of course. Not sure about faith since we don't know how religion works in the game.

Huns
Formidable Steeds: +3 combat strength on cavalry unit, +3 combat strength on mounted nomad

Straight up stronger calvary. Makes sense for the Huns. Could definitely make the Huns a powerful cavalry military civ as they should be. I could see players spamming cavalry units and blitzing the map.

Goths
Nimble pillage: +5 combat strength from ransacking on army

Not sure what "ransacking on army" means. But this sounds like a situational bonus where you get extra combat in a particular situation. Could be useful.

Celts
Druidic Lore: +3 food on exploitation

Same as the Mayan bonus but extra food instead of extra industry. Personally, I prefer extra industry. With the way HK does pop growth, the +3 food might not even trigger faster pop growth.

Carthaginians
Hard Bargainers: Modify all constructibles buyout cost by -50%

This sounds like cheaper buying buildings with gold. -50% is big. If you have a lot of money, you should be able to simply buy buildings. This sounds like a great bonus.

Greeks
Socratic methods: +2 science per researchers on settlement

With the way pop management works, this bonus could give a lot of science for bigger cities. For example, if you have 5 pop assigned to science, that's an extra +10 science. Nice! I like it. I always love more science.

Aksumites
Horn of Plenty: +5% money per number of trade routes

Obviously designed for your trade route civ. But with a lot of trade routes, this could be a monster bonus.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I am also curious now the game will balance between picking a new civ or keeping the old civ when you move on to the next era. The game should make that an interersting choice for the player. It should be not a no-brainer to always pick a new civ.

Also, do we keep the old civ unique bonus when we pick a new civ? If so, then it means that our civ in the modern era will have multiple unique bonuses that we added each era. So by the time we get to the modern era, our civ will be very strong indeed.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Screenshot showing tool tip for converting outposts into cities. In HK, you can claim a region with an outpost and then convert the outpost into a full fledged city.

Tool tip for Stability:

New civic "Legitimacy" which lets you pick between "Customary Laws" which applies "celebrating" to new cities or "Codified Laws" which lowers the cost of attaching outposts to a neighboring region and twinning citadels by 20%

 

[aguaacrobata2]

Also, do we keep the old civ unique bonus when we pick a new civ? If so, then it means that our civ in the modern era will have multiple unique bonuses that we added each era. So by the time we get to the modern era, our civ will be very strong indeed.

That is something I don't quite get. I understand that you don't keep this bonuses as you advance eras and change cultures, but that would mean that if I am playing with the persians (for example) and I have an cap for administrators, I would lose this extra cap when I change culture and therefore would be prone to a sudden decrease in stability

 

[Shadowhal]

Mayans
Tireless Spirit: +3 industry on exploitation

Not sure what exploitation is but extra industry is good.

In EL, "exploitation" referred to all tiles around your city (tiles). So, initially, the six tiles around your capital. Later, more as your city grew. I suspect they will use a similar system and terminology here.

To note that other terms in EL included "city tiles" i.e. just those with city centre and quarters as well as "all tiles" i.e. city tiles and exploitations.

Mauryans
Guiding Light: +10 science per independent people under patronage, +10 faith per independent people under patronage on the capital's city center

Independent People are like City-States in civ. So this is the equivalent of +10 science and faith per City-States that you are the Suzerain of. Depending on how many Independent Peoples there are, this could be a nice bonus or not. The extra science is nice of course. Not sure about faith since we don't know how religion works in the game.

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I thought independent people was more like great people from civ. City state could be a valid interpretation as well, though maybe independent peoples might be more accurate?

Goths
Nimble pillage: +5 combat strength from ransacking on army

Not sure what "ransacking on army" means. But this sounds like a situational bonus where you get extra combat in a particular situation. Could be useful.

EL had a pillaging mechanic. Cities and resource extractors had hit points (fortification points). Each army had a pillage value in that it would reduce fortification points for any adjacent enemy structures. Once depleted, structures would be temporarily offline for the defending player, or the city's defence bonus was cancelled. Screenshots of HK mentioned fortification strength and showed hit points for structures e.g. wonders. So I imagine it's a similar system at work. I thought it was in principle fine in EL, but I rarely bothered to research the tech. With tech cost increasing per tech researched and so many juicy techs in that era already, it just didn't make the cut for me.

 

[Siptah]

I understand that you don't keep this bonuses as you advance eras and change cultures

I think you keep the culture bonus as legacy bonus, actually. What you loose is the ability to build the EQ and EU and the trait (agrarian, aesthete, etc.).

 

[Shadowhal]

The short version of it is that you only have a limited number of Administrators, and Unadministered Cities are less productive than Administered ones.

Thanks for the reply. One of the videos showed that unadministered cities have a) maluses to primary resource generation and b) cannot produce units. I think that goes in a good direction. I'd be tempted to go one step further and just shut dedicated production off for unadministered cities entirely. Instead, the player could state priorities, e.g. focus on industry first, then money, then food, then science. Population is then assigned to slots accordingly and city construction proceeds along those lines with the type and location of city expansions as well as actual buildings following those guidelines. I suppose such a system would need to have control against queue-"exploits" - assign a governor, queue up a dozen items as you want them, reassign to next city.

Related question: will administrators come from the same pool as generals? Will we need to trade off more control over more productive cities with more, better armies? Also, I saw conflicting statements around whether the player can form armies without generals. How will that interact? Maybe "armies", as in more than one unit, require a general while there is no limit to one-unit-"stacks"?

 

[SupremacyKing2]

In EL, "exploitation" referred to all tiles around your city (tiles). So, initially, the six tiles around your capital. Later, more as your city grew. I suspect they will use a similar system and terminology here.

Thanks. I am not super familiar with all the mechanics in EL. So does that basically mean +3 for every tile that is exploited? So +18 total for a new city with no extensions? That sounds really good.

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I thought independent people was more like great people from civ. City state could be a valid interpretation as well, though maybe independent peoples might be more accurate?

It was mentioned that regions can have independent peoples that can either be pacifist or aggressive. So I think they are like the minor tribes in EL. That is why I likened them to City-States in civ.

EL had a pillaging mechanic. Cities and resource extractors had hit points (fortification points). Each army had a pillage value in that it would reduce fortification points for any adjacent enemy structures. Once depleted, structures would be temporarily offline for the defending player, or the city's defence bonus was cancelled. Screenshots of HK mentioned fortification strength and showed hit points for structures e.g. wonders. So I imagine it's a similar system at work. I thought it was in principle fine in EL, but I rarely bothered to research the tech. With tech cost increasing per tech researched and so many juicy techs in that era already, it just didn't make the cut for me.

Thanks for the added info. So basically, the Goths get extra combat strength when attacking a resource extractor or wonder?

 

[aguaacrobata2]

I think you keep the culture bonus as legacy bonus, actually. What you loose is the ability to build the EQ and EU and the trait (agrarian, aesthete, etc.).

Thanks, that makes sence. It will be interesting how the bonuses of your past cultures add up towards the later eras and the endgame gameplay

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I think you keep the culture bonus as legacy bonus, actually. What you loose is the ability to build the EQ and EU and the trait (agrarian, aesthete, etc.).

That would be my guess as well. If so, it will be interesting to see those culture bonuses stack. So your civ in the modern era will have a lot a of culture bonuses and will be quite powerful.

 

[Elhoim]

@Catoninetales_Amplitude I know that you can convert an outpost into a new city or attach it to neighboring one. Now, my question is, can you attach a CITY to another city? Or once you decide a region it's going to be it's own city that's it?

Basically thinking about in the late game "trimming" down a few of your cities for easier management.

Side note: Very interesting article.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/humankind/best-culture

 

[Shadowhal]

Thanks. I am not super familiar with all the mechanics in EL. So does that basically mean +3 for every tile that is exploited? So +18 total for a new city with no extensions? That sounds really good.

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In principle, yes. That's how a direct application of the principle would yield. And indeed, in EL you had some buildings that gave +x to all exploitations. I think one tier II gave +1 industry to all exploitations (whichever territory) which a different tier II gave +1 for all forest tiles (whether exploitation or converted to city, funnily enough). Of course, in HK city extensions will only add yields from the surrounding tiles that correspond to their specialisation. So, a science quarter only adds surrounding tiles' science. Maybe in that combination, the +3 from exploitations adds up to less than what it seems here.​

It was mentioned that regions can have independent peoples that can either be pacifist or aggressive. So I think they are like the minor tribes in EL. That is why I likened them to City-States in civ.

Thanks for confirming. I must have missed that. Fine by me. I think great people are a nice idea, but Civ VI went a bit overboard with it.

Thanks for the added info. So basically, the Goths get extra combat strength when attacking a resource extractor or wonder?

Not a bonus for a battle as such.

Consider an army that has a pillage/ransack value of 10 and a silk resource extractor with a fortification value of 50. If you park that army next to the extractor, then after 5 turns it will be "pillaged/ransacked". Once done, you will get a reward of x silk for ransacking and the extractor will not produce any gold for the owning player for, say, 5 turns. Having a ransack value of 13 means you can get there in 4 turns instead of five. At least that's how it works in EL.

That may sound a bit 'meh' on the surface, so worth highlighting the alternative use of EL's version. Each city had a garrison value, usually 100. That value gets added to every defending unit. So, a unit with 100 hp would effectively have 200 hp. Applying the above army stat would mean that every turn you park that army next to an opponent's city, you decrease the defending units' fortification bonuses by 10 (or 13) hp per turn. It would cut into the actual hp, but not sure it could outright kill them. [side note: an excellent mod made those defence bonuses apply when the defender attacks the besieger, so long as the battle takes from a city tile. That made those defences a lot more powerful, rather than just a hurdle to overcome.]

 

[ost]

Noticed something interesting in one of the gameplay videos:

The tooltip for the Homeland vs World ideology would suggest that in Humankind you can be militaristic for "good" and for "evil", it'll be super interesting to see how that interacts with the diplomacy system.

Also it would seem there are some civic choices that are purely intended to shift your culture's position on the ideological spectrum - both options give the same bonus, but you choose them for different ideological reasons

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Noticed something interesting in one of the gameplay videos:
View attachment 560229
View attachment 560228

The tool tip for the Homeland vs World ideology would suggest that in Humankind you can be militaristic for "good" and for "evil", it'll be super interesting to see how that interacts with the diplomacy system.

You might be reading too much into the tool tips. But I hope you are right. It would be great if HK had more nuanced diplomacy where military action is not always evil. It would be great to be able to wage wars of liberation or form coalitions against an aggressor. I think the devs mentioned that civs will react diplomatically to you based on your slider ideologies. So hopefully civs that are heavily "liberty" can band together against a civ that is heavily "authoritarian".

Also it would seem there are some civic choices that are purely intended to shift your culture's position on the ideological spectrum - both options give the same bonus, but you choose them for different ideological reasons
View attachment 560231

That could be a typo or placeholder since the game is still alpha. It would really surprise me if both choices had the same bonus. For one, they are opposite choices so it does not make sense that they would have the same effect. And from a gameplay perspective, it would make the choices more interesting if the bonuses were different. I hope they are different because +1 administrator for both choices would be kinda lame IMO.

 

[ost]

You might be reading too much into the tool tips

haha fair point! Hard to stop from scrutinizing every detail

I agree that it would be awesome to have a more sophisticated diplomacy system. I wonder if there will be opportunities to revise your culture's civic choices (and ideological leaning) throughout the game?

 

[CivLuvah]

I always wonder what the highlights mean, and how would you know if you are going in one way in the slider or another.

 

[Krajzen]

You know what, everything looks great apart of one thing...

...am I the only one who really dislikes this bland, minimalist "blue rectangles" UI design?
I have never understood why does every Amplitude game has the same UI design, regardless if its setting is space opera, high fantasy or history of civilizations. In Endless Legend it was even worse when you have this United Nations 2030 Presentation UI clashing with swords and monsters. Here it at least fits later eras but its so damn modern, sharp and nearly futuristic for a game where you spend half of it before gunpowder. I have just automatically assumed they'd finally change their UI after 8 years instead of sending it in almost identical form from space opera to ancient Assyria.

I have never had this problem with Civ5, even though its Art Deco UI design seems subtle - it is there and it builds "universal history vibe" better.